964 Refurb
03-10-2013, 06:36 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
964 Refurb
Well, rather than post in spurts on my various findings and activities I thought I'd just run a single thread detailing the refurb of my car. Its not necessarily in the actual order I've done things but will hopefully be of use to someone :-)
03-10-2013, 06:54 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Well today was a tough day in the garage!
The car fought me on every bolt. I'm removing all the front suspension subframe and rack. Although the casting don't show much in the way of corrosion the bolts that fasten with threads into the sub frame certainly do. Not a single part of the frame came out without at least one bolt shearing. This was majorly time consuming. This here shows the main cross-member and you can see the two sheared bolts to which the rear part of the wishbone sub-frame attaches.
The others I managed to get out even if some did shear. The corrosion on the threads within the castings is strong enough to cause this - its incredible. On close inspection you can see the white oxide in the thread, and as hard as concrete. Getting these two out is still "work in progress'. The only remaining parts of these bolts within the casting is their shanks. They're not even threaded and yet I still can't knock them through! I'm going to try and press them out with a hydraulic press once the rack is off.
Although separating the rack from the frame could also be a problem. Of the four bolts holding it on, 2 sheared their heads whilst the other 2 rounded their hex key
Same problem, oxide corrosion of the threads. I've since managed to drill out 2 at one end and remove the clamp, but the other 2 are chewing up my drill bits. Having these bolts screw directly into the the casting just doesn't seem a good idea. I've managed to save the threads on the two I've just extracted but I thinking I may drill them out and fit steel threaded inserts so I don't ever have to go through this again! - Thoughts on that ?
The car fought me on every bolt. I'm removing all the front suspension subframe and rack. Although the casting don't show much in the way of corrosion the bolts that fasten with threads into the sub frame certainly do. Not a single part of the frame came out without at least one bolt shearing. This was majorly time consuming. This here shows the main cross-member and you can see the two sheared bolts to which the rear part of the wishbone sub-frame attaches.
The others I managed to get out even if some did shear. The corrosion on the threads within the castings is strong enough to cause this - its incredible. On close inspection you can see the white oxide in the thread, and as hard as concrete. Getting these two out is still "work in progress'. The only remaining parts of these bolts within the casting is their shanks. They're not even threaded and yet I still can't knock them through! I'm going to try and press them out with a hydraulic press once the rack is off.
Although separating the rack from the frame could also be a problem. Of the four bolts holding it on, 2 sheared their heads whilst the other 2 rounded their hex key
Same problem, oxide corrosion of the threads. I've since managed to drill out 2 at one end and remove the clamp, but the other 2 are chewing up my drill bits. Having these bolts screw directly into the the casting just doesn't seem a good idea. I've managed to save the threads on the two I've just extracted but I thinking I may drill them out and fit steel threaded inserts so I don't ever have to go through this again! - Thoughts on that ?
03-10-2013, 07:34 PM
#7
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03-10-2013, 07:43 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Hi, I'm in Ealing :-)
> Looks like you are starting on a major project.
lol - Ya, and it gets bigger every day. The car is pretty stripped now. The good news is I don't have to touch the engine since it had a full rebuild (including split case) just a few K ago. I'm now going through *everything* else and sorting things as I find them. It may take a while but its far better to do everything like this in one go whilst everythings apart. I've got a nice shiny set of KW3's and powerflex bushes to go on but want to media blast the subframe first and replace all the usual stuff like balljoints and go for stainless brake hoses. I'm also converting the powersteering to an electric pump.
> Looks like you are starting on a major project.
lol - Ya, and it gets bigger every day. The car is pretty stripped now. The good news is I don't have to touch the engine since it had a full rebuild (including split case) just a few K ago. I'm now going through *everything* else and sorting things as I find them. It may take a while but its far better to do everything like this in one go whilst everythings apart. I've got a nice shiny set of KW3's and powerflex bushes to go on but want to media blast the subframe first and replace all the usual stuff like balljoints and go for stainless brake hoses. I'm also converting the powersteering to an electric pump.
03-10-2013, 07:50 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
The others I managed to get out even if some did shear. The corrosion on the threads within the castings is strong enough to cause this - its incredible. On close inspection you can see the white oxide in the thread, and as hard as concrete. Getting these two out is still "work in progress'. The only remaining parts of these bolts within the casting is their shanks. They're not even threaded and yet I still can't knock them through! I'm going to try and press them out with a hydraulic press once the rack is off.
Although separating the rack from the frame could also be a problem. Of the four bolts holding it on, 2 sheared their heads whilst the other 2 rounded their hex key
Same problem, oxide corrosion of the threads. I've since managed to drill out 2 at one end and remove the clamp, but the other 2 are chewing up my drill bits. Having these bolts screw directly into the the casting just doesn't seem a good idea. I've managed to save the threads on the two I've just extracted but I thinking I may drill them out and fit steel threaded inserts so I don't ever have to go through this again! - Thoughts on that ?
03-10-2013, 08:16 PM
#10
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Really going to town on that. I take it a full bare shell respray is occurring?
If you need any help/advice I'm only about 20 mins from you. Although you seem to be very capable. Interested to see the outcome
If you need any help/advice I'm only about 20 mins from you. Although you seem to be very capable. Interested to see the outcome
03-10-2013, 08:18 PM
#11
03-11-2013, 06:20 AM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks chaps,
I will most certainly be calling on your wisdom :-) I've built a few cars before but this is the first Porsche. I building this one as a keeper.
>a full respray on cards
I'm not sure yet. Both the engine rebuild and a glass-out respray were carried out by the PO 2 years ago. However I'm finding a few areas of 'craftsmanship' that I'm not entirely happy with hand having to redo. Both wings had been off before as the underseal had been hacked clear. A pi$$ poor job had been done on making good with just a slap of black paint :-( The regular rust point at the top corners under the wing where it meets the screen panel looks ok but its just far too perfect and flat which raises my suspicions. I chipped away at a bit of it on the edge of a bolt hole. I found surface rust so decided to continue until I met clean metal. I didn't for some time AND found a hole :-( Grrrr. I can't stand it when things are botched like this. I now suspect there to be more there than I originally thought. If they were prepared to filler over the rust I have to assume the window surround will need some degree of addressing. Needless to say the screen will come out later so that further investigation can continue. At best my chipping and scratching finds nothing more and the repair is simple. At worst.... There just really is no point putting stuff together until its right. I have no issue with jobs taking longer than you hoped but I hate having to do things twice!
I will most certainly be calling on your wisdom :-) I've built a few cars before but this is the first Porsche. I building this one as a keeper.
>a full respray on cards
I'm not sure yet. Both the engine rebuild and a glass-out respray were carried out by the PO 2 years ago. However I'm finding a few areas of 'craftsmanship' that I'm not entirely happy with hand having to redo. Both wings had been off before as the underseal had been hacked clear. A pi$$ poor job had been done on making good with just a slap of black paint :-( The regular rust point at the top corners under the wing where it meets the screen panel looks ok but its just far too perfect and flat which raises my suspicions. I chipped away at a bit of it on the edge of a bolt hole. I found surface rust so decided to continue until I met clean metal. I didn't for some time AND found a hole :-( Grrrr. I can't stand it when things are botched like this. I now suspect there to be more there than I originally thought. If they were prepared to filler over the rust I have to assume the window surround will need some degree of addressing. Needless to say the screen will come out later so that further investigation can continue. At best my chipping and scratching finds nothing more and the repair is simple. At worst.... There just really is no point putting stuff together until its right. I have no issue with jobs taking longer than you hoped but I hate having to do things twice!
03-11-2013, 01:34 PM
#13
SUSBSCRIBED
good work going on however I do not envy you working from a lock up and using a kipor genny for power source I guess this is London living for you. Make sure you have them thermals on snowing in Birmingham. Good luck with rebuild. Keep up the good fight.
good work going on however I do not envy you working from a lock up and using a kipor genny for power source I guess this is London living for you. Make sure you have them thermals on snowing in Birmingham. Good luck with rebuild. Keep up the good fight.
03-11-2013, 07:38 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
The garage is about 30 meters from the house so too far really to run a cord. I can't wire it to the mains either since the cable would have to cross 2 of my neighbor's gardens. I make do :-)
Well tonight I attacked the remains of the bolt shanks stuck in the sub-frame. I pushed them out with the press and it took... are you ready.... 6 tons of pressure before they cracked free!!!! Holy Moly!!!
(sorry for the grainy night shots... its erm night time and v cold)
What would I do differently next time? Quite a bit. If the subframe bolts don't feel like they've loosened much following a quarter turn with the bar I'd STOP! The corrosion has locked them solid. I would then get hold of an impact wrench and at least have a go with that. There is a slim chance you might get lucky. I don't have an impact wrench but I'm certainly going to get one now before attempting the rear suspension.
I also drilled the heads off the last two rounded allen head bolts off the rack clamp. The rack and cross member are now separated :-)
I'm left with the tedious task again of drilling the remnants out. At least with the rack out of the way it will now fit under the pillar drill.
Well tonight I attacked the remains of the bolt shanks stuck in the sub-frame. I pushed them out with the press and it took... are you ready.... 6 tons of pressure before they cracked free!!!! Holy Moly!!!
(sorry for the grainy night shots... its erm night time and v cold)
What would I do differently next time? Quite a bit. If the subframe bolts don't feel like they've loosened much following a quarter turn with the bar I'd STOP! The corrosion has locked them solid. I would then get hold of an impact wrench and at least have a go with that. There is a slim chance you might get lucky. I don't have an impact wrench but I'm certainly going to get one now before attempting the rear suspension.
I also drilled the heads off the last two rounded allen head bolts off the rack clamp. The rack and cross member are now separated :-)
I'm left with the tedious task again of drilling the remnants out. At least with the rack out of the way it will now fit under the pillar drill.
03-12-2013, 08:03 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Quick, rather boring update...
The last two pig-of-a-bolts are out :-) The longer of the two was subjected to a blow torch for 5 mins which then loosened it sufficient that I could turn it out with a pair of mole-grips. The 2nd was rather more tricky. I had to cobble together a jig out of wood that would hold the frame such that the bottom end of the bolt was perfectly vertical before drilling it through on the pillar drill. I bought some cobalt drill bits today. Man, they're great and just chewed through it :-)
In the end I only needed to put a helicoil into one of the threads. The rest were undamaged and needed nothing more than a tap run through them to clean them up. Result! :-)
More fun tasks can now resume like removing the bushes from the wishbones.
The last two pig-of-a-bolts are out :-) The longer of the two was subjected to a blow torch for 5 mins which then loosened it sufficient that I could turn it out with a pair of mole-grips. The 2nd was rather more tricky. I had to cobble together a jig out of wood that would hold the frame such that the bottom end of the bolt was perfectly vertical before drilling it through on the pillar drill. I bought some cobalt drill bits today. Man, they're great and just chewed through it :-)
In the end I only needed to put a helicoil into one of the threads. The rest were undamaged and needed nothing more than a tap run through them to clean them up. Result! :-)
More fun tasks can now resume like removing the bushes from the wishbones.
