Anyone know anything about this 964 RS racecar?
05-19-2012, 04:14 PM
#48
Instructor
Thread Starter
OK guys got moving on this project again. There have been other priorities in my life for the past two months.
I have the car at my local shop at the moment because that way I have access to a lift. Yesterday I got the car out of the trailer and I drained out about 15 gallons of the old (6-7 years old) gasoline. Then I put in 5 gals of 110. Oil has already been changed.
The car starts easily with no smoke, and actually it sounds pretty good, but doesn't really want to idle. I can keep it going if I lightly apply pedal. When first trying to fire it, we didn't get any response from the oil pressure sending unit. We swapped the one on the motor out for another one, and now after firing the oil pressure gauge pegs at the top past 5 bar. Not sure if that's because I have excellent oil pressure and everything's cold or there is a mismatch in ranges between the sender and what the gauge is expecting. We will likely attach a screw in oil gauge to the sensor block next week to verify what the real oil pressure is.
I think the injectors should probably get removed and rebuilt. Quite a few pops and cracks through the throttle bodies even when I was keeping the motor running with my foot. Next step is to get the rear bumper off and then get the chain covers off to see if we can find anything that is broken that could be the source of the metal bits seen on page 3. We'll boroscope to see the intermediate shaft gear/bearings as well. I'll also of course check the cams / valve train. If I don't see anything wrong with those I'll likely leave the motor alone for now. They really don't look like ring bits, and they aren't bearing bits, so... it would seem that it would have to be left overs from the previous rebuild years ago that weren't properly flushed out of the oil system. At least, I can hope that.
A picture out in the sun:
The side skirts will need replacing; they are shot from too many off-track excursions. I do have a replacement DP 964 front bumper; anyone know which kit this belongs to? The back is marked DP F GT1.
I have a set of replacement side skirts but they don't look like the same as the DP bumper. They are also a different contour than the side skirts that were on the car. Any thoughts on which kit/manufacturer they might be from? Here's a comparison shot.
Glad to be working on the car again.
I have the car at my local shop at the moment because that way I have access to a lift. Yesterday I got the car out of the trailer and I drained out about 15 gallons of the old (6-7 years old) gasoline. Then I put in 5 gals of 110. Oil has already been changed.
The car starts easily with no smoke, and actually it sounds pretty good, but doesn't really want to idle. I can keep it going if I lightly apply pedal. When first trying to fire it, we didn't get any response from the oil pressure sending unit. We swapped the one on the motor out for another one, and now after firing the oil pressure gauge pegs at the top past 5 bar. Not sure if that's because I have excellent oil pressure and everything's cold or there is a mismatch in ranges between the sender and what the gauge is expecting. We will likely attach a screw in oil gauge to the sensor block next week to verify what the real oil pressure is.
I think the injectors should probably get removed and rebuilt. Quite a few pops and cracks through the throttle bodies even when I was keeping the motor running with my foot. Next step is to get the rear bumper off and then get the chain covers off to see if we can find anything that is broken that could be the source of the metal bits seen on page 3. We'll boroscope to see the intermediate shaft gear/bearings as well. I'll also of course check the cams / valve train. If I don't see anything wrong with those I'll likely leave the motor alone for now. They really don't look like ring bits, and they aren't bearing bits, so... it would seem that it would have to be left overs from the previous rebuild years ago that weren't properly flushed out of the oil system. At least, I can hope that.
A picture out in the sun:
The side skirts will need replacing; they are shot from too many off-track excursions. I do have a replacement DP 964 front bumper; anyone know which kit this belongs to? The back is marked DP F GT1.
I have a set of replacement side skirts but they don't look like the same as the DP bumper. They are also a different contour than the side skirts that were on the car. Any thoughts on which kit/manufacturer they might be from? Here's a comparison shot.
Glad to be working on the car again.
05-20-2012, 11:05 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
Cool thread and a good read, any more of the history been confirmed?
05-20-2012, 08:51 PM
#52
Instructor
Thread Starter
Here's what I have confirmed from the WagenPass, import documentation, and PCA logbook.
Car was originally owned by Hans Obermaier. It was registered March 6, 1995 with a 3.6 turbo motor. The chassis number is listed as 965 006, and the description was "964 Turbo II". This leads me to believe it was a car that was NOT originally a factory car, but maybe one put together by Obermaier racing themselves from a bare shell.
The roll cage is a Matter cage, Nr 102-524/67, and is ONS certified.
The car originally wore all 964 style bodywork. From the WagenPass picture, I can see that the rear fender flares are the same as are currently installed on the car. The front clip fenders/bumper have been changed to 993 style. Also the original front flares appear to have been integral to the fenders, where as now they are a bolt/screw-on style. The originals look like they could have been turbo-style fenders? The front fender appears to have a single grille opening at the bottom bisected by a piece of trim that stops near the middle where scoops feed the oil coolers, and a centrally mounted towing hook. I would think it would be cool to bring the car back to stock, but not sure exactly what I need to do it.
On page 6 of the Wagenpass, (Additional Information) It says "Porsche Kat. Nr. 492 80107004; 1 Kat. m. 2 Einsatzen.
On the "Untersuchugnen" page (Scrutineering?) There are dates of March 6, 1995; April 12, 1999, and March 23, 2000.
There are no race entries in the WagenPass for the car as originally configured. I believe the car must have been built as an alternate / spare and was not used.
On April 12, 1999, the car was re-registered with a 3.8 liter motor.
In 1998 a 120 liter (31 gallon) Premier fuel cell was installed for Mr. Obermaier as part of the re-registration of the car.
The race entries are as follows:
April 24 199: GTP Hochenheim, #73
October 1, 1999: GTP Monza, #18
April 8, 2000: GTP Hochenheim, #11
June 16, 2000: GTP Mugello, #11
The car was imported to the USA in April 2001, to Colorado. I can see from the import photo the vin is indicated as 965 006, and it is already wearing the front bolt-on fender flares. The shot is away from us from the rear, but it appears it may have the 993 front end at this time already. The EPA approval papers are from late August 2001. In December 2001 it saw additional work having the front hub carriers changed to Porsche 993-style, and brake cooling modification changed to 993 style. A letter to the EPA by the original Colorado owner identifies the car as a "Porsche RSR." run in the German DTM.
The original colorado owner sold the car to the 3rd owner, who I bought it from, in January 2003 for $65,000.
This owner ran the car in PCA GT-2R. It had the front-end 993 bodywork already, which lets me believe it was imported this way. He raced at Mid America in July 2003, and Then various other places (Pueblo, Las Vegas) through 2006.
The receipts for the engine rebuild are from February-June 2004, so I do believe the statement that he raced this motor after the rebuild is not a load of crap. We have Pauter rods, 993 valve covers, ARP head studs, replated nickasil cylinders, JE 104x11.5:1 pistons, JE rings, etc. So now the motor is indeed a 3.9 liter.
In Feb 2006 the heads were rebuilt and assembled at CMW Motorsports in Santa Fe Springs, CA. A "high flow valve job in the intake side only" was performed, to 52mm. "964 Cup Heads modified to fit valve spring package." Racing valve springs, yadda yadda. #5 head was damaged; a crack on the exhaust guide was welded and re-machined. Machined for a 993 style sealing ring.
This work is also consistent with what the PO stated about the car not running quite right after his first rebuild. Evidently he zinged a shift sometime in late 2003 or Jan 2004 and when he rebuilt, he replaced #5 head with what he thought was an equivalent one, but it wasn't. So when he rebuilt the heads in 2006 he had the original #5 welded up to make sure he still had a matched set.
In April 2006 the gearbox was rebuilt. It is a 6 speed G50. It looks like GT3 style sliders were installed.
It was serviced and corner balanced in April 2006.
The car was raced twice after this service.
That's the history as I know it! Quite likely it sat from August 2006 until present.
Car was originally owned by Hans Obermaier. It was registered March 6, 1995 with a 3.6 turbo motor. The chassis number is listed as 965 006, and the description was "964 Turbo II". This leads me to believe it was a car that was NOT originally a factory car, but maybe one put together by Obermaier racing themselves from a bare shell.
The roll cage is a Matter cage, Nr 102-524/67, and is ONS certified.
The car originally wore all 964 style bodywork. From the WagenPass picture, I can see that the rear fender flares are the same as are currently installed on the car. The front clip fenders/bumper have been changed to 993 style. Also the original front flares appear to have been integral to the fenders, where as now they are a bolt/screw-on style. The originals look like they could have been turbo-style fenders? The front fender appears to have a single grille opening at the bottom bisected by a piece of trim that stops near the middle where scoops feed the oil coolers, and a centrally mounted towing hook. I would think it would be cool to bring the car back to stock, but not sure exactly what I need to do it.
On page 6 of the Wagenpass, (Additional Information) It says "Porsche Kat. Nr. 492 80107004; 1 Kat. m. 2 Einsatzen.
On the "Untersuchugnen" page (Scrutineering?) There are dates of March 6, 1995; April 12, 1999, and March 23, 2000.
There are no race entries in the WagenPass for the car as originally configured. I believe the car must have been built as an alternate / spare and was not used.
On April 12, 1999, the car was re-registered with a 3.8 liter motor.
In 1998 a 120 liter (31 gallon) Premier fuel cell was installed for Mr. Obermaier as part of the re-registration of the car.
The race entries are as follows:
April 24 199: GTP Hochenheim, #73
October 1, 1999: GTP Monza, #18
April 8, 2000: GTP Hochenheim, #11
June 16, 2000: GTP Mugello, #11
The car was imported to the USA in April 2001, to Colorado. I can see from the import photo the vin is indicated as 965 006, and it is already wearing the front bolt-on fender flares. The shot is away from us from the rear, but it appears it may have the 993 front end at this time already. The EPA approval papers are from late August 2001. In December 2001 it saw additional work having the front hub carriers changed to Porsche 993-style, and brake cooling modification changed to 993 style. A letter to the EPA by the original Colorado owner identifies the car as a "Porsche RSR." run in the German DTM.
The original colorado owner sold the car to the 3rd owner, who I bought it from, in January 2003 for $65,000.
This owner ran the car in PCA GT-2R. It had the front-end 993 bodywork already, which lets me believe it was imported this way. He raced at Mid America in July 2003, and Then various other places (Pueblo, Las Vegas) through 2006.
The receipts for the engine rebuild are from February-June 2004, so I do believe the statement that he raced this motor after the rebuild is not a load of crap. We have Pauter rods, 993 valve covers, ARP head studs, replated nickasil cylinders, JE 104x11.5:1 pistons, JE rings, etc. So now the motor is indeed a 3.9 liter.
In Feb 2006 the heads were rebuilt and assembled at CMW Motorsports in Santa Fe Springs, CA. A "high flow valve job in the intake side only" was performed, to 52mm. "964 Cup Heads modified to fit valve spring package." Racing valve springs, yadda yadda. #5 head was damaged; a crack on the exhaust guide was welded and re-machined. Machined for a 993 style sealing ring.
This work is also consistent with what the PO stated about the car not running quite right after his first rebuild. Evidently he zinged a shift sometime in late 2003 or Jan 2004 and when he rebuilt, he replaced #5 head with what he thought was an equivalent one, but it wasn't. So when he rebuilt the heads in 2006 he had the original #5 welded up to make sure he still had a matched set.
In April 2006 the gearbox was rebuilt. It is a 6 speed G50. It looks like GT3 style sliders were installed.
It was serviced and corner balanced in April 2006.
The car was raced twice after this service.
That's the history as I know it! Quite likely it sat from August 2006 until present.
Last edited by preston_brown; 05-21-2012 at 10:20 AM.
05-21-2012, 08:23 AM
#53
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Great thread. Neat that you have the history of the car. I would love to someday come across one like this. Find some 964 Turbo front fenders and a nose and go for the 964 RSR look. 
Like this:
Like this:
05-21-2012, 10:02 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
I see it's at Chuck's. It's in good hands now!
I might need to pay him a visit soon...
I might need to pay him a visit soon...
05-21-2012, 08:34 PM
#55
Instructor
Thread Starter
This picture is a CARBON COPY of my car. It is the Oberbaiern car at Le Mans in 1995. I'm sure now that based on the Le Mans sticker on my roll cage, my car was the backup at this race. Same down to the placement of the front tow hook, the gas filler, the fire and electrical cutoffs near the back of the front left fender, the rear wheel arches, rear wing, etc.
This would be some simple yet somewhat cool livery to re-copy.
This would be some simple yet somewhat cool livery to re-copy.
Last edited by preston_brown; 05-21-2012 at 10:11 PM.
Let's get the thing out on the track first!
05-22-2012, 04:34 AM
#58
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This picture is a CARBON COPY of my car. It is the Oberbaiern car at Le Mans in 1995. I'm sure now that based on the Le Mans sticker on my roll cage, my car was the backup at this race. Same down to the placement of the front tow hook, the gas filler, the fire and electrical cutoffs near the back of the front left fender, the rear wheel arches, rear wing, etc.
This would be some simple yet somewhat cool livery to re-copy.
This would be some simple yet somewhat cool livery to re-copy.
Am really enjoying this thread. Thanks for sharing!
05-24-2012, 08:14 PM
#60
Advanced
I just found this thread while doing a search for Hans Obermaier. I bought my 73 Carrera RS from him in 1984 and wanted to see if there was anything on the internet about him/his firm. I do know they ran the Hugo Boss 956s and 962s in European prototype racing in the 80s through early 90s. Don't know much more than that and don't know if they are still around as a race team or other enterprise. Good luck with the car. Looks like a great project!
