Anyone know anything about this 964 RS racecar?
03-10-2012, 11:19 PM
#31
03-11-2012, 12:39 AM
#33
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It looks from the roll cage sticker that the car was actually campaigned by a team called "Team Oberbayerr". Am I reading that right? Does anyone know about that team?
03-11-2012, 06:17 AM
#34
Warning light OL = probably "ol / oel (my ipad doesn't do umlaut) = oil pressure indeed seems a likely candidate
The center console has a dymo tag Geblaese = fan/blower = demister / oil cooler fan override???
The center console has a dymo tag Geblaese = fan/blower = demister / oil cooler fan override???
03-13-2012, 09:14 PM
#35
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OK! Some more news. I found a pile of documentation underneath the driver's seat, including the Wagenpass, so I'll be posting some pretty neato stuff shortly.
My mechanic and I put fresh oil in, checked for oil pressure with a brief crank, and then proceeded to start...with 6 year old 110 octane. It eventually fired and ran for about 10 seconds, then died. Sounded pretty rough the first two or three times we tried this, but not like it was knocking or anything. Smoothed out by the 4th or 5th try. It does want to die unless accelerator is held ever so slightly. We are going to change out the gas and try again to see if it will idle.
Now, the bad news: when we drained the oil the car came with, there were some metal pieces on the magnetic drain plug of the case. They look to be pieces of a gear to me, perhaps a timing gear? Not something that would typically fail in normal operation, only if there were interference and catastrophic stopping of the motor. My mechanic's opinion is that more than likely, this is debris left over from the previous rebuild, since the motor has only been run a few hours since then. If the oil coolers were not sufficiently cleaned out, these could have hung out in the oil lines and then come back and gotten stuck on the drain plug.
Do the pieces look like anything familiar to you? Obviously the very smartest thing to do would be a full tear down, but I've just finished a motor and I'm not too excited to start another one just yet. Opinions?
My mechanic and I put fresh oil in, checked for oil pressure with a brief crank, and then proceeded to start...with 6 year old 110 octane. It eventually fired and ran for about 10 seconds, then died. Sounded pretty rough the first two or three times we tried this, but not like it was knocking or anything. Smoothed out by the 4th or 5th try. It does want to die unless accelerator is held ever so slightly. We are going to change out the gas and try again to see if it will idle.
Now, the bad news: when we drained the oil the car came with, there were some metal pieces on the magnetic drain plug of the case. They look to be pieces of a gear to me, perhaps a timing gear? Not something that would typically fail in normal operation, only if there were interference and catastrophic stopping of the motor. My mechanic's opinion is that more than likely, this is debris left over from the previous rebuild, since the motor has only been run a few hours since then. If the oil coolers were not sufficiently cleaned out, these could have hung out in the oil lines and then come back and gotten stuck on the drain plug.
Do the pieces look like anything familiar to you? Obviously the very smartest thing to do would be a full tear down, but I've just finished a motor and I'm not too excited to start another one just yet. Opinions?
03-14-2012, 07:54 AM
#36
Good news on the Wagenpass!!!
As far as the oil debris is concerned, have a look at a recent thread on a piece of piston ring found during oil drain, lots of advise in there on various ways to proceed.
Personally I would start with slicing open the oil filter for inspection, as well as perhaps take of the valve covers for a quick visual inspection of the rocker gear --- while in there checking/re-setting valve clearance is good practice anyway on a newly rebuilt engine after some hours of operation.
If all seems well be prepared to use plenty of cheap oil and new filter to flush-flush-flush until foreign media no longer appears to be present,
As far as the oil debris is concerned, have a look at a recent thread on a piece of piston ring found during oil drain, lots of advise in there on various ways to proceed.
Personally I would start with slicing open the oil filter for inspection, as well as perhaps take of the valve covers for a quick visual inspection of the rocker gear --- while in there checking/re-setting valve clearance is good practice anyway on a newly rebuilt engine after some hours of operation.
If all seems well be prepared to use plenty of cheap oil and new filter to flush-flush-flush until foreign media no longer appears to be present,
03-14-2012, 08:41 AM
#37
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This will be cool figuring out the history. Definitely keep us posted. I still think deep down it's a 964 RS or Cup. Look at the shape of the windshield and the pacing between the windshield wipers, pre 993 for sure. Does the car have a VIN number in the usual location?
03-14-2012, 08:57 AM
#38
Nordschleife Master
There will be additional chassis numbers on the rear package shelf, and on the metal dashboard under the radio (under the covering material).
Those pieces look like part of the inner timing gear that rests against the pin to lock the cam to the gear. As mentioned, I'd open the filter and look, but that doesn't install confidence and I'd take the engine apart to see if everything is Ok before racing it.
You probably should not have tried to start it with old gas. I would have completely removed the entire system, removed the injectors and had them cleaned and reinstalled with new gas prior to starting. Change the fuel filter while you are in there.
It is no unusual for ITB engines to idle low, or not at all for the first few seconds. However, you'll want to check the synch of the throttle blades once you get the engine running and warm.
Those pieces look like part of the inner timing gear that rests against the pin to lock the cam to the gear. As mentioned, I'd open the filter and look, but that doesn't install confidence and I'd take the engine apart to see if everything is Ok before racing it.
You probably should not have tried to start it with old gas. I would have completely removed the entire system, removed the injectors and had them cleaned and reinstalled with new gas prior to starting. Change the fuel filter while you are in there.
It is no unusual for ITB engines to idle low, or not at all for the first few seconds. However, you'll want to check the synch of the throttle blades once you get the engine running and warm.
03-14-2012, 11:04 PM
#39
Instructor
Thread Starter
I am preparing to at least begin evaluating what might be wrong with the engine. I agree that the pieces look like gear teeth. We'll see what we can see, and if we can't find it on the obvious spots, its teardown time. I have nothing but time. That sucks since the motor only has 20ish hours on it, but hey.
Here are some pictures of the first couple pages in the Wagenpass.
Here are some pictures of the first couple pages in the Wagenpass.
Last edited by preston_brown; 03-14-2012 at 11:48 PM.
03-15-2012, 04:34 AM
#40
Ok, so your car started out in '95 as a 3.6L Turbo. Given the assigned turbo/intercooler (Art der Aufladung: Turbo Ladeluftkuelung) conversion factor of 1.7 (Turbo Faktor) this is equivalent to 6.1L (Einstufungshubraum 6120cc).
In '99 it got re-scrutinized/registered, now in normally aspirated form with a slight displacement increase to 3.75L through use of 102mm pistons.
Fahrgestellnummer: VIN/chassis# 965006
Überollvorrichtung: the steel roll cage is ONS certified and listed as Matter
Fahrzeugbesitzer: owner Hans Obermaier
In '99 it got re-scrutinized/registered, now in normally aspirated form with a slight displacement increase to 3.75L through use of 102mm pistons.
Fahrgestellnummer: VIN/chassis# 965006
Überollvorrichtung: the steel roll cage is ONS certified and listed as Matter
Fahrzeugbesitzer: owner Hans Obermaier
Last edited by evoderby; 03-15-2012 at 06:21 AM.
03-15-2012, 10:04 AM
#41
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Sorry about your motor, but I know you have the skills for this!
I can't wait to see (and hear) it screaming around VIR!
03-15-2012, 11:00 AM
#42
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I don't know why the Wagenpass lists the car's year as 1995 (unless that refers to when it first went through scrutineering). There were no 'official' MY 1995 964s, and the seller stated it was a 1993 Turbo.
If 1995 is actually correct, then this is likely one of the leftover MY 1994 turbo chassis, which might explain why it is stamped with a chassis no. and is not assigned a VIN.
In any case, Auto Obermaier is still in business in Halsbach. I'd send an email to Johann Obermaier (see the link below) and with any luck he'll be able to give you the background on how they obtained the chassis.
http://www.halsbach.de/index.php?opt...d=112&catid=40
If 1995 is actually correct, then this is likely one of the leftover MY 1994 turbo chassis, which might explain why it is stamped with a chassis no. and is not assigned a VIN.
In any case, Auto Obermaier is still in business in Halsbach. I'd send an email to Johann Obermaier (see the link below) and with any luck he'll be able to give you the background on how they obtained the chassis.
http://www.halsbach.de/index.php?opt...d=112&catid=40
Last edited by Ken D; 03-15-2012 at 11:28 AM.
03-15-2012, 02:28 PM
#43
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Wow. Definitely was not expecting a read like this! Very exciting! One question though. If it turns out this is a real 964 cup, how much would the car appreciate if it were returned to its original (or close to) state?
03-15-2012, 03:02 PM
#44
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Thread Starter
Interesting to see also that it was indeed registered and run by Obermaier, not Oberbayern. Wonder where it got the sticker on the roll cage...
I'll email Johann and see what more we can find out.
I'll email Johann and see what more we can find out.
03-15-2012, 04:20 PM
#45
Obermaier is the owner, as mentionned in the wagenpass: Fa. Hans Obermaier, which stands for Firma Hans Obermaier, or Hans Obermaier entreprise.
