barney55

Quick question?

Has anyone used non-n rated tyres on their 964 without problems

over the years(there doesn't seem to be much choice n-rated wise).

What about the yearly inspection / MOT / APK could it fail without N-rated.

I've been using conti sport contact 2 for 9 years but think i can do better.

Perhaps Bridgestone R050A s' (not n-rated).

T I A

PorscheCarrera964

I have non N rated tires on my CUP 2's, and cant tell a difference between them, and the N rated tires on my hollowspokes, I think here that will be an argument split 60%/40%, I had a similar issue in a thread I recently posted asking about buying a set of Cup 1's with stretched tires, you can read a little more info from more knoledgable enthusiasts there.

Computamedic

This is a question that comes up quite regularly - and there is never a consensus. To some degree it depends where you are in the World. The attitude to N-rated tyres in the US seems very different to that in Europe and that may reflect in the attitude of consumers to the motor industry as a whole.

If you have any faith in Porsche as a manufacturer you surely must beleive that their testing is far superior to your own "seat of the pants" conclusion. Given the very unusual nature of the 911 with much of it's weight concentrated over the rear wheels it doesn't surprise me that it's demands on tyres might be a tad different to, say, a regular mid-sized saloon. Or, even, a Ferrari or Aston Martin.

If you choose to ignore the conclusions arrived at by the Porsche engineers in Weissach there is nothing in the World to stop you and nobody would condemn you for making your own choice. Me?? I'm with the guys who know what they're doing. It's N-rated all the way for me.

Regards

Dave

Tuscany964

I just went through a set of these and had no problems at all... well one, they only last about 6/7000miles, if that's a problem. Oh and bridgestones in general are heavy tyres.

Unfortunately there aren't many decent 205/50 17 tyres and even less if you go for N-rated ones. Being in Italy I have to stick with OEM sizes otherwise if you get stopped they take your road book/registration away otherwise I would go for N-rated 225/45 17 PS2's. If I were in the States I'd go for OEM size yoko AD07's - I don't know why they don't sell these in the EU except for in Exige sizes.

jimq

most new tires today are better then what was on the market 15+ years ago.

Bull

It really doesn't matter if you are looking at premium tires in the right sizes for your car. We all lived for many years without the factory N-rated program being in existence, and drove, raced, etc. 911s and earlier rear engined Porsches. You will find fewer and fewer N-rated tires in your sizes as your car becomes older because Porsche is not choosing some of the manufacturers/models for the program if they don't fit the late model cars. Eventually will you stop buying tires when there are no N-rated offerings?

Most premium tires that are not N-rated are simply so because they were never entered into the Porsche rating system. Too many people believe it is because they failed the Porsche rating system. BTW, if you build a tire for a Porsche new model, and it is selected by Porsche based on performance and your marketing/pricing program, you WILL become N-rated. If you don't enter, you won't. Ever see a list of tires that failed the Porsche N-rating program????

race911

See my post on the other thread which basically follows Bull's more eloquent explanation. I'd just love to get Gunther or Dieter explain to me how a 930 on P7's was a deathtrap back in '78 running flat out on the 'bahn. I've personally never heard of mass numbers of cars falling off the road.

And don't get me started on the hundreds of thousands of competition miles we've collectively run over here on Hoosiers, etc. Hell, we used to run RETREADED CN36's and XWX's as the "hot setup".

Computamedic

I think a lot of the comments made here seem to completely miss the point about N-rated tyres.

Firstly, Porsche recommend fitting tyres which their engineers have concluded work best with the specific cars tested. There is no mandatory requirement unless there is a need to conform to the warranty needs for the car. Porsche have made these recommendations since the early '80s and update them from time to time to ensure that suitable tyres are still available. The most recent update was in the middle of last year and the list of N-rated tyres for the 964 is available here. I don't beleive anyone has ever said that non-N-rated tyres are going to be dangerous - just not optimum.

Regarding program failure, it is well known that a year or so ago Continental submitted it's latest 19" Sport Contact 2 to Porsche and were so confident that it would be accepted they destroyed the moulds for the previous N version. The new tyre was rejected by Porsche and Continental tyres were not fitted at production and there were no 19" SC2 tyres available worldwide causing Porsche to pay for full replacement sets for owners who needed replacement of earlier tyres through accidental damage.

Regards

Dave

Strega(UK)

I do find it strange that on Porsches latest list, they put the Continental SC2 as best on Cup 1's yet everyone I know would run a mile from these tyres including just about everyone over the pond who use there cars a fair bit on the track. I do not think it is a cost issue as in this country at least they are the just abot the cheapest tyres you can get.

I have run Bridgestone Potenza S-02 tyres on 911's for 9 years now and have always been recommended these, they are however not N-rated.

Computamedic

As far as I'm aware, the S-02 went out of production ages ago but Bridgestone retained production of the N-spec tyres only. The S-02s that I have on my car certainly ARE N-rated and mytyres.co.uk ONLY list N-rated S-02s now.

Regards

Dave

Strega(UK)

Curious! I just had a look at the 18" S-02's that are in the garage and the fronts are N rated the rears are not, both front and rears were bought within months of each other and probably not a lot more than 18 months ago.

NineMeister

The cynic in me cannot get past the understanding that Porsche charge the tyre manufacturers a fee for testing new tyres on a Porsche. So does this mean in practise that if we buy a tyre with an N on it, Porsche are taking a cut?

As someone else has mentioned, if you want to play safe go with N rated, period. If however you are old enough to have driven 911s with factory supplied Pirelli CN36, P7 or Dunlop D3's, just about any modern branded tyre will be awesome in comparison.

IMHO, more important than the letter N is the treadwear factor stamped on the sidewall which is the guide that I use to recommend tyres to our customers. Tyres have a life of approximately 3-4 years whereupon degradation of the rubber is sufficient to compromise performance, so my recomendation for low mileage drivers is to buy a tyre which will last around 3 years of normal use, which usually implies buying a soft compound tyre which has a lower treadwear rating. As a guide, soft compound trackday tyres range from treadwear of 50-80 and have a life of 2-3000 miles; a high performance road tyre like the Bridgstone SO2 would be in the range 120-160, this is the range that I prefer for my own use and would last around 6-10000 miles. The harder compound 160-220 tyres are usually the longer lasting options (eg. Michelin, Continental) and may be a good choice for those doing more than 15k miles every two years.

But at the end of the day, this is just my opinion......

cobalt

I was told by a factory rep that the tires approved are those tested by Porsche and found to be acceptable for supplying with the vehicle as new. Only a handful of all tires that qualify for the model type are tested and the tire must be supplied in bulk by the manufacturer who must cover the cost of testing. Many quality tires are not tested because they don't feel it will gain them enough sales to go through the aggravation.

I also find the list confusing. They have some tires listed that I have a set of each on a set of speedlines for my turbo. One set has Michelin N rated MPS2's the other has a set of N rated Pirelli Pzero's. I have to say other than Pirelli P7/6's these have to be the worst tires I have ever driven on. They are hard, uncomfortable have fair dry traction and are down right scary in the rain. Not to mention noisy as can be. Yet Porsche lists the Pzero as having superior wet traction over the MPS2's. IMO the MPS2's have some of the best all around performance, are confidence inspiring, good on street or track. The Pirelli's make me want to not drive the car. The only thing I found better about the Pirelli's is the stiff sidewall has superior turn in than the MPS2. I found their limits very easily as where the Michelin's take far more to reach their limits and communicate much better.

So you take the info as you see fit. I for one like only a few tires they list and would never pay good money for some of the others.

Tuscany964

Are Perellis the chinese version of Pirellis?

Just kidding, they don't have much grip but as you say the sidewalls are nice and stiff and they are progressive when they let go...

dutchcrunch

I can tell you that porsche approved N rated tires have substantial tire side wall stiffness compared to non n rated tires. not to say all non n rated tires but this is what i have seen and compared.

I think the incresed side wall stiffness is important to increase stable handling in turns and sudden or abrupt manuvering.

i had some michelin pilot mxx3 n1 tires that were replaced and the side wall was thick and solid. they guy that dismouted them told me they were a bear and the side wall was thick. i seen some pilot sport non n rated summer high rated spees tires and the walls were real thin.

I put some michelin piot sport a/s on and before the tires were mounted the side wall was pretty firm. now i can tell the difference in initial turn in compared to the old michelin pilot mxx3 n 1 tire but its not very much and the ride is a lot smother and some what not as harsh.

so my hunch is if you do not get the n rated tires look for a tire with firm sidewalls.

if you buy the n rated tire i guess it takes the guess work out and you know your getting a tire that performs in hand with you cars capabilities.

tires are important over cost as what the use of having a porsche that handles like some toyota corolla when you pushing it in a corner.

i do own a corolla and belive me you i would not be happpy if the porsche felt like that washy boat in a turn. i know its a differnt car but when you push on the car from the side you can see the rim swaying left and right on the tire. this is not what you want on your porsche.

wrong tire will compare to playing sports with some crapppy to big for you feet tennis shoes.

just go to the tire store one day and look at the tires on display and put your hand on the side wall and get a feel for what i am trying to explain. you will get a better understanding from what i am talking about. most people probably never done this but this will give you an idea how well the tire is made and build quality.

also get the correct size tire for your car, puting on a bigger tire being an N tire or not will cause problems too.

dont be cheap on the tires, you will be rewarded if you get the correct high performance for you car.

i like nike shoes and wal mart speacial wont do. your car no different.


i will shut up now, good luck