31=Left mixing flap motor
05-03-2008, 09:03 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
31=Left mixing flap motor
This is a code I read this morning on the Scantool. I have tried to investigate exactly what this is. I am getting confused with all the servos that this car has. There appears to be servos in the front of the car and rear. Can anyone tell me which part this is.
Thanks,
Duck
Thanks,
Duck
05-03-2008, 10:25 AM
#2
IHI KING!
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I recommend referring to John's tech article on servos. They are relatively easy to remove and test.
http://porsche964.co.uk/technical/servos.htm
http://porsche964.co.uk/technical/servos.htm
05-04-2008, 02:40 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
scantool description list
I've been working on the Scantool outputs recently.
(Scantool's very helpful. Right up to the points where I didn't have the foggiest idea what it was describing or making things go whir/click/ or silent sounds. And I hated that clueless feeling. So, like Wilford Brimley's character in "The Thing" -- I've been busy...)
These are my results, so far. (below)
I may make this into a separate thread to fill in all my question marks. [where you see those, I wasn't at all sure]
PLEASE pipe up where you see errors or holes in this. Make this a community work in progress...
System: Motronic
Test Outputs
ECU Activations? <OK>
(ECU output complete)
Actual Values
ECU Inputs
System: Climate Control
Test Outputs
Servo numbering (below) same as seen on http://porsche964.co.uk/technical/servos.htm (looking to rear of car at servos in front trunk/boot, beneath windshield, numbered from left (Servo 1) to right (Servo 5). All “left-side”/”right-side” descriptions viewed looking forward in car.
ECU Activations <OK>
(ECU output complete)
Actual Values
(blank)
….
ECU Inputs
This is the biggest void of info I came upon. Please help fill in this data. I've a feeling it's very important in troubleshooting climate control/fan sensors.
(Scantool's very helpful. Right up to the points where I didn't have the foggiest idea what it was describing or making things go whir/click/ or silent sounds. And I hated that clueless feeling. So, like Wilford Brimley's character in "The Thing" -- I've been busy...)
These are my results, so far. (below)
I may make this into a separate thread to fill in all my question marks. [where you see those, I wasn't at all sure]
PLEASE pipe up where you see errors or holes in this. Make this a community work in progress...
System: Motronic
Test Outputs
ECU Activations? <OK>
# 17: Cylinder 1 Fuel Injector (small clicking sound as activated, then off; repeatedly)
# 16: Cylinder 6 Fuel Injector ‘’
# 35: Cylinder 2 Fuel Injector ‘’
# 34: Cylinder 4 Fuel Injector ‘’
# 15: Cylinder 3 Fuel Injector ‘’
# 33: Cylinder 5 Fuel Injector ‘’
# 4: Idle Speed Control; ISV (big click as activated)
# 5: Tank Venting Valve (big click as activated)
# 23: Resonance Plate (Big click as activated)
….# 16: Cylinder 6 Fuel Injector ‘’
# 35: Cylinder 2 Fuel Injector ‘’
# 34: Cylinder 4 Fuel Injector ‘’
# 15: Cylinder 3 Fuel Injector ‘’
# 33: Cylinder 5 Fuel Injector ‘’
# 4: Idle Speed Control; ISV (big click as activated)
# 5: Tank Venting Valve (big click as activated)
# 23: Resonance Plate (Big click as activated)
(ECU output complete)
Actual Values
Intake Air Temp (deg F) [sensor where ?]
Cylinder Head Temp (deg F) [cylinder head #3]
AFM Voltage (volts)
Rpm (crankshaft revs/minute)
Injector Time (ms) [injector-Open Time during cycle]
Ignition Advance (degrees angle)
Adapted IAC trim (?) [Idle Air Control ??]
124 (7 ch) (?) [signal from Air Flow Sensor ?]
….Cylinder Head Temp (deg F) [cylinder head #3]
AFM Voltage (volts)
Rpm (crankshaft revs/minute)
Injector Time (ms) [injector-Open Time during cycle]
Ignition Advance (degrees angle)
Adapted IAC trim (?) [Idle Air Control ??]
124 (7 ch) (?) [signal from Air Flow Sensor ?]
ECU Inputs
MAF sensor (V/ohm ratio) [Mass Air flow sensor; s/b between 0 & 1 when open flapper]
Battery (volts) [battery pole voltage]
NTC 1 (ohms) [air temperature sensor]
NTC 2 (ohms) [engine temperature sensor; Cylinder 3 head]
Channel 5 (?) [tank venting valve?]
O2 Sensor (mV?)
FQS (position #) [Fuel Quality (Rotary) Switch in DME, a fuel mixture-to-Timing set pt.]
MAP Sensor 7 (?)
….Battery (volts) [battery pole voltage]
NTC 1 (ohms) [air temperature sensor]
NTC 2 (ohms) [engine temperature sensor; Cylinder 3 head]
Channel 5 (?) [tank venting valve?]
O2 Sensor (mV?)
FQS (position #) [Fuel Quality (Rotary) Switch in DME, a fuel mixture-to-Timing set pt.]
MAP Sensor 7 (?)
System: Climate Control
Test Outputs
Servo numbering (below) same as seen on http://porsche964.co.uk/technical/servos.htm (looking to rear of car at servos in front trunk/boot, beneath windshield, numbered from left (Servo 1) to right (Servo 5). All “left-side”/”right-side” descriptions viewed looking forward in car.
ECU Activations <OK>
Seq. (start): Servo 4; OPEN, Left mixing flap (controls hot & cold air mixing)
Seq. # 1: Servo 4; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 2: Servo 2; OPEN, Right mixing flap (controls hot & cold air mixing)
Seq. # 3: Servo 2; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 4: Servo 1; OPEN, Defroster flap (center nozzle)
Seq. # 5: Servo 1; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 6: Servo 5; OPEN, Footwell flap
Seq. # 7: Servo 5; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 8: Servo 3; OPEN, Fresh air flap
Seq. # 9: Servo 3; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 10: A/C radiator fan; Low speed, (left front fender behind head light)
Seq. # 11: A/C radiator fan; High speed, “
Seq. # 12: Oil radiator fan; Low speed, (right front fender behind head light)
Seq. # 13: Oil radiator fan; High speed, “
Seq. # 14: Primary blower fan; High, (engine bay, above left side of engine)
Seq. # 15: Primary blower fan; Low, “
Seq. # 16: Secondary blower fan; (dashboard; Left side)
Seq. # 17: Secondary blower fan; (dashboard; Right side)
Seq. # 18: A/C radiator fan; Low speed (??? -- I think)
Seq. # 19: no reaction
Seq. # 20: no reaction
….Seq. # 1: Servo 4; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 2: Servo 2; OPEN, Right mixing flap (controls hot & cold air mixing)
Seq. # 3: Servo 2; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 4: Servo 1; OPEN, Defroster flap (center nozzle)
Seq. # 5: Servo 1; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 6: Servo 5; OPEN, Footwell flap
Seq. # 7: Servo 5; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 8: Servo 3; OPEN, Fresh air flap
Seq. # 9: Servo 3; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 10: A/C radiator fan; Low speed, (left front fender behind head light)
Seq. # 11: A/C radiator fan; High speed, “
Seq. # 12: Oil radiator fan; Low speed, (right front fender behind head light)
Seq. # 13: Oil radiator fan; High speed, “
Seq. # 14: Primary blower fan; High, (engine bay, above left side of engine)
Seq. # 15: Primary blower fan; Low, “
Seq. # 16: Secondary blower fan; (dashboard; Left side)
Seq. # 17: Secondary blower fan; (dashboard; Right side)
Seq. # 18: A/C radiator fan; Low speed (??? -- I think)
Seq. # 19: no reaction
Seq. # 20: no reaction
(ECU output complete)
Actual Values
(blank)
….
ECU Inputs
This is the biggest void of info I came upon. Please help fill in this data. I've a feeling it's very important in troubleshooting climate control/fan sensors.
Channel 1) [?]
Channel 2) [?]
Channel 3) [?]
Channel 4) [?]
Channel 5) [?]
Channel 6) [?]
Channel 7) [?]
Channel 8) [?]
Switch 1) Off [?]
Switch 2) Off [?]
Channel 2) [?]
Channel 3) [?]
Channel 4) [?]
Channel 5) [?]
Channel 6) [?]
Channel 7) [?]
Channel 8) [?]
Switch 1) Off [?]
Switch 2) Off [?]
Last edited by elbeee964; 05-04-2008 at 09:40 PM. Reason: Seq #13 correction: "High"
05-04-2008, 03:44 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Elbeee964,
Your hired. I saw in another post you said you were working on gathering all the code definition for Scantool.
This is super helpful. I want to encourage you to make a separate post and keep editing it as we get updates.
Ricardo
Your hired. I saw in another post you said you were working on gathering all the code definition for Scantool.
This is super helpful. I want to encourage you to make a separate post and keep editing it as we get updates.
Ricardo
05-04-2008, 08:32 PM
#7
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I tried to go through the test output section for the climate control and it doesn't test anything. It goes directly to test done. Any suggestions? I am expecting individual tests for all of the following that is listed below. Am I misunderstanding this? It did step through the testing on the Motronic controller. Thanks
Dave
Dave
System: Climate Control
Test Outputs
Servo numbering (below) same as seen on http://porsche964.co.uk/technical/servos.htm (looking to rear of car at servos in front trunk/boot, beneath windshield, numbered from left (Servo 1) to right (Servo 5). All “left-side”/”right-side” descriptions viewed looking forward in car.
ECU Activations <OK>
(ECU output complete)
[/INDENT]
Test Outputs
Servo numbering (below) same as seen on http://porsche964.co.uk/technical/servos.htm (looking to rear of car at servos in front trunk/boot, beneath windshield, numbered from left (Servo 1) to right (Servo 5). All “left-side”/”right-side” descriptions viewed looking forward in car.
ECU Activations <OK>
Seq. (start): Servo 4; OPEN, Left mixing flap (controls hot & cold air mixing)
Seq. # 1: Servo 4; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 2: Servo 2; OPEN, Right mixing flap (controls hot & cold air mixing)
Seq. # 3: Servo 2; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 4: Servo 1; OPEN, Defroster flap (center nozzle)
Seq. # 5: Servo 1; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 6: Servo 5; OPEN, Footwell flap
Seq. # 7: Servo 5; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 8: Servo 3; OPEN, Fresh air flap
Seq. # 9: Servo 3; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 10: A/C radiator fan; Low speed, (left front fender behind head light)
Seq. # 11: A/C radiator fan; High speed, “
Seq. # 12: Oil radiator fan; Low speed, (right front fender behind head light)
Seq. # 13: Oil radiator fan; High speed, “
Seq. # 14: Primary blower fan; High, (engine bay, above left side of engine)
Seq. # 15: Primary blower fan; Low, “
Seq. # 16: Secondary blower fan; (dashboard; Left side)
Seq. # 17: Secondary blower fan; (dashboard; Right side)
Seq. # 18: A/C radiator fan; Low speed (??? -- I think)
Seq. # 19: no reaction
Seq. # 20: no reaction
….Seq. # 1: Servo 4; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 2: Servo 2; OPEN, Right mixing flap (controls hot & cold air mixing)
Seq. # 3: Servo 2; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 4: Servo 1; OPEN, Defroster flap (center nozzle)
Seq. # 5: Servo 1; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 6: Servo 5; OPEN, Footwell flap
Seq. # 7: Servo 5; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 8: Servo 3; OPEN, Fresh air flap
Seq. # 9: Servo 3; CLOSE, “
Seq. # 10: A/C radiator fan; Low speed, (left front fender behind head light)
Seq. # 11: A/C radiator fan; High speed, “
Seq. # 12: Oil radiator fan; Low speed, (right front fender behind head light)
Seq. # 13: Oil radiator fan; High speed, “
Seq. # 14: Primary blower fan; High, (engine bay, above left side of engine)
Seq. # 15: Primary blower fan; Low, “
Seq. # 16: Secondary blower fan; (dashboard; Left side)
Seq. # 17: Secondary blower fan; (dashboard; Right side)
Seq. # 18: A/C radiator fan; Low speed (??? -- I think)
Seq. # 19: no reaction
Seq. # 20: no reaction
(ECU output complete)
[/INDENT]
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05-04-2008, 10:00 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
I tried to go through the test output section for the climate control and it doesn't test anything. It goes directly to test done. Any suggestions? I am expecting individual tests for all of the following that is listed below. Am I misunderstanding this? It did step through the testing on the Motronic controller. Thanks
Dave
Dave
I don't understand why yours wouldn't start going through that sequence.
FWIW, I drive a very plain-jane, manual '93 C2 coupe w/ sun roof & A/C.
And I'm running Scantool V.4. (check to see if you're using version 4.)
The codes, above, would likely be the same output for a C4, RSA, Targa, Cab, or a Tip -- but I haven't the resources to check that. [Volunteers can send candidates to me in SE VA for trial testing, though!]
Why yours isn't going through the sequence, I don't know, but maybe someone will pipe up with likely reason(s).
Identify your car type, for starters.
And is the Motronic section of Scantool working for you?
Good luck!
-Lonnie
05-04-2008, 11:18 PM
#9
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I have a 1989 C4 5 speed and yes the motronic section did step through each test. I was sitting in the drivers seat and wasn't really interested in the results so I can not say that I heard any of the noises that I should hear but it did ask me to perform each test. I am using version 4. I did try multple times today with the same results each time. I did not have the car running but I don't think that should matter. I do have a error 15 that I just found out about. Would that keep it from working?
Thanks for any suggestion. Dave
Thanks for any suggestion. Dave
f46835i7 (-- if that IS your real name...)
I don't understand why yours wouldn't start going through that sequence.
FWIW, I drive a very plain-jane, manual '93 C2 coupe w/ sun roof & A/C.
And I'm running Scantool V.4. (check to see if you're using version 4.)
The codes, above, would likely be the same output for a C4, RSA, Targa, Cab, or a Tip -- but I haven't the resources to check that. [Volunteers can send candidates to me in SE VA for trial testing, though!]
Why yours isn't going through the sequence, I don't know, but maybe someone will pipe up with likely reason(s).
Identify your car type, for starters.
And is the Motronic section of Scantool working for you?
Good luck!
-Lonnie
I don't understand why yours wouldn't start going through that sequence.
FWIW, I drive a very plain-jane, manual '93 C2 coupe w/ sun roof & A/C.
And I'm running Scantool V.4. (check to see if you're using version 4.)
The codes, above, would likely be the same output for a C4, RSA, Targa, Cab, or a Tip -- but I haven't the resources to check that. [Volunteers can send candidates to me in SE VA for trial testing, though!]
Why yours isn't going through the sequence, I don't know, but maybe someone will pipe up with likely reason(s).
Identify your car type, for starters.
And is the Motronic section of Scantool working for you?
Good luck!
-Lonnie
05-04-2008, 11:26 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
Yup. Scantool works either way. Running, or not -- it shouldn't matter.
(Except you won't be able to run the "Motronic" activation sequences while the motor's running.)
But if the engine's not running, the key should be turned far enough so that you have a christmas tree dashboard. Otherwise, Scantool won't find anything 'hot'/energized aboard your car to connect with... and you'll just end up in a continuous circuit-seeking loop within Scantool.
The Motronic sequencing of the fuel injectors is very subtle. You'll most likely only hear them in a closed, quiet garage. And then what you'll hear is a click..click....(1 sec delay)... click..click, as each injector gets a series of on... off... on... off repetitions.
I ran my computer from outside the car, on the passenger side -- and heard all six injectors as each came up in the sequence. Teeny, tiny noises, to be sure, but there.
Open question: Anybody else successfully run an '89 C4 on Scantool, version 4?
(Except you won't be able to run the "Motronic" activation sequences while the motor's running.)
But if the engine's not running, the key should be turned far enough so that you have a christmas tree dashboard. Otherwise, Scantool won't find anything 'hot'/energized aboard your car to connect with... and you'll just end up in a continuous circuit-seeking loop within Scantool.
The Motronic sequencing of the fuel injectors is very subtle. You'll most likely only hear them in a closed, quiet garage. And then what you'll hear is a click..click....(1 sec delay)... click..click, as each injector gets a series of on... off... on... off repetitions.
I ran my computer from outside the car, on the passenger side -- and heard all six injectors as each came up in the sequence. Teeny, tiny noises, to be sure, but there.
Open question: Anybody else successfully run an '89 C4 on Scantool, version 4?
05-04-2008, 11:29 PM
#11
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I edited my post above about the error 15. Would that keep it from doing tests?
Yup. Running, or not, it shouldn't matter.
(Except you won't be able to run the motronic test sequences while the motor's running.)
But if not running, the key should be far enough turned so that you have a christmas tree dashboard.
The Motronic sequencing of the fuel injectors is very subtle. You'll most likely only hear them in a closed, quiet garage. And then what you'll hear is a click..click....(1 sec delay)... click..click, as each injector gets a series of on... off... on... off repetitions.
Open question: Anybody else successfully run an '89 C4 on Scantool?
(Except you won't be able to run the motronic test sequences while the motor's running.)
But if not running, the key should be far enough turned so that you have a christmas tree dashboard.
The Motronic sequencing of the fuel injectors is very subtle. You'll most likely only hear them in a closed, quiet garage. And then what you'll hear is a click..click....(1 sec delay)... click..click, as each injector gets a series of on... off... on... off repetitions.
Open question: Anybody else successfully run an '89 C4 on Scantool?
05-04-2008, 11:38 PM
#12
Nordschleife Master
15=Control unit defective
Heck, if I know what that means!?
[hurriedly running off to see what "control unit" refers to...]
edit- I believe this refers to the All Wheel Drive/ABS control unit.
In this section, they seem particularly worried about grounds not being well connected/corroded, and how that might fire off this error code.
Anyone care to venture a guess?
BTW, f468357, I am waaaay out of my depth, here. I wouldn't get too discouraged. There are vastly smarter C4 folk here than me -- like, EVERYONE else.
One of 'em will be by here eventually.
(Don't see how that would mess up Scantool, though...)
Last edited by elbeee964; 05-04-2008 at 11:54 PM.
05-04-2008, 11:45 PM
#13
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It is "Code 15 Rear fan temp sensor" See my other post for more imformation/questions. What I have figured out today is that I think i just need to replace the sensor (located in the engine fan duct). It is currently open circuit. The purpose for this sensor is to control the rear fan speed based on temperature.
05-05-2008, 12:00 AM
#14
Nordschleife Master
If that's the problem, then there was one notorious thread a year, or so, ago that dealt with this.
[Try not to get too freaked by what I'm about to say...]
Do a search under "Engine AND Fire AND factory AND bulletin"
You'll find reference there to a fan resistor that might be this one.
(I think.)
Edit= Here it is: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ngine+Fire+fan
[Try not to get too freaked by what I'm about to say...]
Do a search under "Engine AND Fire AND factory AND bulletin"
You'll find reference there to a fan resistor that might be this one.
(I think.)
Edit= Here it is: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ngine+Fire+fan
05-05-2008, 12:07 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
Ah yes, the famous "Fire in the hold!" thread. I was just checking that yet again this weekend when I pulled out the blower motor tube to confirm I had the latest part.
The thread you are referencing is this one:
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/250087-fire-in-the-hold.html
The thread you are referencing is this one:
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/250087-fire-in-the-hold.html