Results of CCU rebuild, and a question on the heater/blower fan in the motor...
02-10-2004, 10:58 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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Results of CCU rebuild, and a question on the heater/blower fan in the motor...
I am updating those who are interested in the outcome of my CCU (Climate Control Unit) repair. Several people were talking recently about broken CCU's. The quick re-cap if my particular story is I bought a used but supposidly "working" CCU from a dismantler which turned out to be a 993 unit, sent it back and they sent me anouther 993 unit. Sent that back, got my money back and sent my 964 unit to Otto's of Venice (California) to be rebuilt.
Otto's gave very fast turnaround (couple of days), and very good customer service. I plugged the new unit in (gosh, what a pain in the rear- 3rd or 4th time installing this thing), and I think the unit is finally good to go. I was having a battery drain problem originally- now the tiny CCU fan goes off when the key is turned off (doesn't even stay on for 10-15 minutes- probably an update from Otto's technician, as they said they "update" certain items when doing the unit rebuild). I guess the final litmus test is that I plugged the charge-o-mat to the car...if there is truely no drain, the red charging light should go off in the next day or so (I'm not using the car right now due to the salt on the roads)
My question is when I turn my ignition key to the on position without starting the car, a blower in the engine compartment goes on (heat/fan blower??) even though the car is cold. It goes off after a minute or so.....I can't for the life of me remember if this occurred before- is this normal for a 964? I think my car maybe did this when the car was warm (i.e. running earlier in the day), but the car was not warmed up when is happening now. If this isn't supposed to happen, is it possibly related to some other "update" when they rebuilt my CCU? Does it even matter?
It doesn't bother me if it's not harmful- does not seem to be a similar case to other posts of people who's engine compartment blower motor stays on after the key is turned off resulting in a drained battery- it goes off after a minute or so if the car isn't started, and goes off if I turn the key off before it cycles off by itself.
The other thing is the A/C button does not activate the engine compressor (with engine running). I think this is due to lack of freon charge though, not due to any fault of the CCU as I hear the fan motors go on in the driver's front fender when I press the A/C button.
As I know I'll get the question, the CCU rebuild cost $325. I beleive the cost is dependant on what your particular unit needs, but this seems to be about what I have heard others charged by Otto's. Here is there contact information- I recommend them!:
Toll Free:
Local Area:
FAX:
EMAIL:
ADDRESS:
(888) 901-OTTO (6886)
(310) 399-3221
(310) 399-9399
Inquiries@OttosVenice.com
707 South Hampton Drive,
Venice, CA 90291
Otto's gave very fast turnaround (couple of days), and very good customer service. I plugged the new unit in (gosh, what a pain in the rear- 3rd or 4th time installing this thing), and I think the unit is finally good to go. I was having a battery drain problem originally- now the tiny CCU fan goes off when the key is turned off (doesn't even stay on for 10-15 minutes- probably an update from Otto's technician, as they said they "update" certain items when doing the unit rebuild). I guess the final litmus test is that I plugged the charge-o-mat to the car...if there is truely no drain, the red charging light should go off in the next day or so (I'm not using the car right now due to the salt on the roads)
My question is when I turn my ignition key to the on position without starting the car, a blower in the engine compartment goes on (heat/fan blower??) even though the car is cold. It goes off after a minute or so.....I can't for the life of me remember if this occurred before- is this normal for a 964? I think my car maybe did this when the car was warm (i.e. running earlier in the day), but the car was not warmed up when is happening now. If this isn't supposed to happen, is it possibly related to some other "update" when they rebuilt my CCU? Does it even matter?
It doesn't bother me if it's not harmful- does not seem to be a similar case to other posts of people who's engine compartment blower motor stays on after the key is turned off resulting in a drained battery- it goes off after a minute or so if the car isn't started, and goes off if I turn the key off before it cycles off by itself.
The other thing is the A/C button does not activate the engine compressor (with engine running). I think this is due to lack of freon charge though, not due to any fault of the CCU as I hear the fan motors go on in the driver's front fender when I press the A/C button.
As I know I'll get the question, the CCU rebuild cost $325. I beleive the cost is dependant on what your particular unit needs, but this seems to be about what I have heard others charged by Otto's. Here is there contact information- I recommend them!:
Toll Free:
Local Area:
FAX:
EMAIL:
ADDRESS:
(888) 901-OTTO (6886)
(310) 399-3221
(310) 399-9399
Inquiries@OttosVenice.com
707 South Hampton Drive,
Venice, CA 90291
02-10-2004, 11:58 PM
#2
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Hey Andrew,
I suspect if you set your CCU to "blue dot," you won't hear the rear blower start-up when you turn on the ignition (engine cold). It's normal for the rear blower to start-up with the ignition on, if it thinks it needs to supply heat to the cabin. Even if the engine is cold and not running (and can't possibly supply heated air).
I'm a little surprised the rear blower turned itself off. I wouldn't think the system is smart enough to realize its efforts to provide heated air are futile. Never tried it on my own car, perhaps it does the same thing, if I was to wait long enough?
Anyway, good to hear you have a working CCU.
I suspect if you set your CCU to "blue dot," you won't hear the rear blower start-up when you turn on the ignition (engine cold). It's normal for the rear blower to start-up with the ignition on, if it thinks it needs to supply heat to the cabin. Even if the engine is cold and not running (and can't possibly supply heated air).
I'm a little surprised the rear blower turned itself off. I wouldn't think the system is smart enough to realize its efforts to provide heated air are futile. Never tried it on my own car, perhaps it does the same thing, if I was to wait long enough?
Anyway, good to hear you have a working CCU.
02-11-2004, 12:05 AM
#3
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So the CCU saga has finally ended? Good riddance!
Looks like Otto's is the place...
About your rear blower running for a minute or so after turning the key on a cold car...... mine does that too, and I thought it was talked about in a post but I can't seem to find that thread. I'm not sure if it's normal, and if so, why it does that. There was a recent thread concerning that low pressure cut out on the A/C and how to test it.
Did Otto's give some sort of report, source of failure, or electronic parts used? I'm curious to know what happened to your unit.
I'm happy to hear of your success!
Kevin
Looks like Otto's is the place...
About your rear blower running for a minute or so after turning the key on a cold car...... mine does that too, and I thought it was talked about in a post but I can't seem to find that thread. I'm not sure if it's normal, and if so, why it does that. There was a recent thread concerning that low pressure cut out on the A/C and how to test it.
Did Otto's give some sort of report, source of failure, or electronic parts used? I'm curious to know what happened to your unit.
I'm happy to hear of your success!
Kevin
02-11-2004, 12:19 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
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My car did the same thing and I also thought that maybe there was something wrong because I hadn't noticed it before. Anyway it was doing it for about 4 years until the bearings started to squeal so I unplugged it. It has not effected the output of the heat at all, it still blows strong and hot.
On a side note, once when I was detailing my car's (rear wheels) I decided to turn the key on and listen to some music and that fan came on. The funny thing was a strong force of air was coming from the inside of my rear wheels (both of them). Could this fan double as a rear brake cooler?
New paint on the Cab
On a side note, once when I was detailing my car's (rear wheels) I decided to turn the key on and listen to some music and that fan came on. The funny thing was a strong force of air was coming from the inside of my rear wheels (both of them). Could this fan double as a rear brake cooler?
New paint on the Cab
02-11-2004, 10:16 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I know what you're talking about Dunasso- that fan is actually used to cool the engine compartment- it comes on after turning the car off sometimes (especially in the summer) since the engine compartment is still hot- even when the key is turned off and removed (at least mine does). I've parked the car in the garage after a drive on a cool night, closed the garage door, then went back out to the garage, and the fan is on blowing the heat out- actually warms my garage up! (I have a smaller 1-car garage).
Randall- If I didn't have the temp on the blue dot, I know turned it to the blue dot to try to turn off the blower. Maybe I'll see if it "re-sets" if I leave the dial on the blue dot before turning the key "On".
Mojorizing- I did a quick search of the blower motor going on, but didn't find anything on this, (thus my question in my post)- I did not get any sort of breakdown of the work done- I don't think I would have known what it was anyway
...they said they rebuilt the unit and did some "upgrades" to the internals. They said I shouldn't have problems with it again- they must "update" things that are common failures with the 964 units. This is my original CCU by the way with the "964" suffix in the part number, and single A/C button (and its a "US" specification car for anyone outside the US who may be reading this...don't know if the CCU is different in other countries, or cars without A/C.)
Andrew
Randall- If I didn't have the temp on the blue dot, I know turned it to the blue dot to try to turn off the blower. Maybe I'll see if it "re-sets" if I leave the dial on the blue dot before turning the key "On".
Mojorizing- I did a quick search of the blower motor going on, but didn't find anything on this, (thus my question in my post)- I did not get any sort of breakdown of the work done- I don't think I would have known what it was anyway
...they said they rebuilt the unit and did some "upgrades" to the internals. They said I shouldn't have problems with it again- they must "update" things that are common failures with the 964 units. This is my original CCU by the way with the "964" suffix in the part number, and single A/C button (and its a "US" specification car for anyone outside the US who may be reading this...don't know if the CCU is different in other countries, or cars without A/C.)Andrew
02-11-2004, 10:21 AM
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Hey Duncan,
>The funny thing was a strong force of air was coming from the inside of my rear wheels (both of them). Could this fan double as a rear brake cooler?
Actually, it doubles as an engine cooler. There are setpoints for slow-speed and hi-speed operation, determined by the temperature sensor in the rear blower heating duct. There are also different start/stop setpoints for ignition on and off (the ignition on setpoints being lower).
Is it possible your engine was still warm when you started to detail your wheels?
>The funny thing was a strong force of air was coming from the inside of my rear wheels (both of them). Could this fan double as a rear brake cooler?
Actually, it doubles as an engine cooler. There are setpoints for slow-speed and hi-speed operation, determined by the temperature sensor in the rear blower heating duct. There are also different start/stop setpoints for ignition on and off (the ignition on setpoints being lower).
Is it possible your engine was still warm when you started to detail your wheels?
02-11-2004, 10:59 AM
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BTW, guys. 993s do have a secondary air injection (SAI) pump that starts up when the engine is cold, and runs for a few minutes to help heat up the catalytic converters. It actually sounds a bit like the rear heater blower. I know it has been a long time since I've had my 964 engine, but I don't think the 964 engine has SAI. Oh, and the SAI pump only runs with the engine on, anyway.
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02-11-2004, 01:00 PM
#8
IF:
- CCU unit is OK;
- engine is cold;
- temperature **** is in "blue" position
- resistor in rear blower duct is ok
THEN
- you have an air leak in duct from heat exchangers to the climate unit.
A frequent issue: check the paper duct, about .5meter long, in both sides near driver/passenger feet. The left is behind front hood release ****, the right is behind diagnosis socket.
When rear blower is running, check with your hand for air escaping from those paper ducts.
Another symptom of leaking ducts: in summertime, **** in "blue" position, some hot air raising from foot area.
Hope this helps.
- CCU unit is OK;
- engine is cold;
- temperature **** is in "blue" position
- resistor in rear blower duct is ok
THEN
- you have an air leak in duct from heat exchangers to the climate unit.
A frequent issue: check the paper duct, about .5meter long, in both sides near driver/passenger feet. The left is behind front hood release ****, the right is behind diagnosis socket.
When rear blower is running, check with your hand for air escaping from those paper ducts.
Another symptom of leaking ducts: in summertime, **** in "blue" position, some hot air raising from foot area.
Hope this helps.
02-11-2004, 03:31 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
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Thanks Guys
I can see that this was a worth while venture. So many responces in such a short time. Hey, I really appriciate the info; now I'm more educated.
Duncan
Duncan
02-11-2004, 07:08 PM
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You can also check on the BYpass valves underneath your car right in front of the Wheels , when your Engine is running ,CCU on Cold (blue Dot ) the Air should escape there . If you turn the **** to red ,the Air should go all the Way into your Car .
After your car is turned off the Heater will NOT cool the Engine Bay but it will press cold Air trough the Heatexchangers to cool the Headers they are
after a spirited drive glowing red and could do some damage to the Heads
(exhaustvalve Guides ) and start a fire if touching Dry grass or so .
Harald
After your car is turned off the Heater will NOT cool the Engine Bay but it will press cold Air trough the Heatexchangers to cool the Headers they are
after a spirited drive glowing red and could do some damage to the Heads
(exhaustvalve Guides ) and start a fire if touching Dry grass or so .
Harald
02-13-2004, 06:07 AM
#12
Drifting
Just a quickie, and I know what Adrian will say, but here's a link to Ebay UK for some CCU/ Blower stuff on sale.
http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....sort=3&rows=50
Nothing ventured nothing gained. especially if yours is broken.
Kevin.
http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....sort=3&rows=50
Nothing ventured nothing gained. especially if yours is broken.
Kevin.
02-21-2004, 10:50 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
"resistor in rear blower duct is ok"
Herbie- are you talking about a sensor in the tube that runs to the heater fan in the motor in that quote? Is that sensor known to do funny things? It looks like it would be easy to change since its right there in the front of the motor....
Hopefully will be driving the car today or tomorrow if the salt is off the roads, so I can play around with the car some. I retested the car a couple of times, and what's happening is the heater blower in the engine compartent is going on with CCU temp on blue dot and cold motor. The blower will shut itself off if the key is left on (engine off) after a few minutes....seems strange thing for it to do, and I guess I can live with it if need be, but it's odd..
Herbie- are you talking about a sensor in the tube that runs to the heater fan in the motor in that quote? Is that sensor known to do funny things? It looks like it would be easy to change since its right there in the front of the motor....
Hopefully will be driving the car today or tomorrow if the salt is off the roads, so I can play around with the car some. I retested the car a couple of times, and what's happening is the heater blower in the engine compartent is going on with CCU temp on blue dot and cold motor. The blower will shut itself off if the key is left on (engine off) after a few minutes....seems strange thing for it to do, and I guess I can live with it if need be, but it's odd..
02-21-2004, 11:51 PM
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Hey Andrew,
>and what's happening is the heater blower in the engine compartent is going on with CCU temp on blue dot and cold motor. The blower will shut itself off if the key is left on (engine off) after a few minutes....seems strange thing for it to do
Agree, that's odd. You can go ahead and check the rear blower temperature sensor (which Herbie mentioned) for proper resistance readings. You can remove it, or (preferably) take readings between G18 & G10 at the CCU connector:
0C = 28.8 to 36.4 kOhm
25C = 9.0 to 11.0 kOhm
50C = 3.1 to 4.0 kOhm
>and what's happening is the heater blower in the engine compartent is going on with CCU temp on blue dot and cold motor. The blower will shut itself off if the key is left on (engine off) after a few minutes....seems strange thing for it to do
Agree, that's odd. You can go ahead and check the rear blower temperature sensor (which Herbie mentioned) for proper resistance readings. You can remove it, or (preferably) take readings between G18 & G10 at the CCU connector:
0C = 28.8 to 36.4 kOhm
25C = 9.0 to 11.0 kOhm
50C = 3.1 to 4.0 kOhm
02-28-2004, 06:22 PM
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I've been working on a high engine temperature/oil cooler fan not operating problem for a while now. In 70 degree temps the gauge reads better than 9 o'clock and I've never heard the oil cooler fan operate. I followed the DIY process for checking relays, direct jumpering and even replaced the oil temp sender. As for the rear engine fan, Ive never heard it run regardless of the CCU temp settings (Blue or red). What sucks even more I've sent my CCU to Otto's and they said there was nothing wrong with it. So, I'm not sure what to make of it at this point. Any wisdom would be helpful.
--Eric
--Eric