The rebuild begins ...
11-21-2005, 11:51 AM
#46
Race Director
Thread Starter
Kirk,
I have not yet decided on the source of most of the parts. I really want to get to the bottom of this engine to determine what has caused the need for 3 rebuilds in 40K miles. It could be an issue with the case, or the oiling system. If it's too much to replace all of the internals, depending on the damage, I still may buy a used/rebuilt engine to put in for now, and turn the current engine into a "research project on power".
I was undure about what to do with the knock sensors when removing the upper engine shroud, so I disconnected them where the wire attaches to the bar. Hope this was the right thing to do.
Also, I need to go purchase the pulley extractor from the local p-car dealer today. It looks from the manual like it is required to avoid damage to the pulley.
I have not yet decided on the source of most of the parts. I really want to get to the bottom of this engine to determine what has caused the need for 3 rebuilds in 40K miles. It could be an issue with the case, or the oiling system. If it's too much to replace all of the internals, depending on the damage, I still may buy a used/rebuilt engine to put in for now, and turn the current engine into a "research project on power".
I was undure about what to do with the knock sensors when removing the upper engine shroud, so I disconnected them where the wire attaches to the bar. Hope this was the right thing to do.
Also, I need to go purchase the pulley extractor from the local p-car dealer today. It looks from the manual like it is required to avoid damage to the pulley.
11-21-2005, 01:33 PM
#47
Three Wheelin'
Sundog,
To remove the front pulley, I locked the crankshaft at the back of the motor, and then removed the front pulley bolt.
I went to put a standard 3 arm puller on the front pulley, and before I did more than hand tighten it on the pulley, the pulley popped off. No special tools required.
I ordered up the special tool for the cam gear, but it hasnt arrived (or shipped) from Pelican yet. I sent them an email today asking what happened to it. (been about 20 days since I ordered it)
For my knock sensors I pulled the wire through the rear shield and the wire is still connected at the knock sensors. I haven't pulled the sensors off yet. I noticed before I cleaned my engine that these sensors were one of the sources of my oil leaks.
If the top end of my motor looks ok, I am going to just do a top end rebuild, and combined with all the clutch/flywheel parts, that should be enough $$ for me for right now.
We should ask around and see what other people have done for their motor rebuilds. I see several places offer complete kits with all the gaskets and pieces.
for example:
http://www.motormeister.com/suz/rebu...ld_kit_911.htm
(Anyone bought a complete rebuild kit from somewhere and have any advice to offer?)
I have found in the past that work done in shops will generally be of poor quality. The reason for your regular rebuilds is probably nothing more sinister than poor attention to detail by the mechanics. improper torques, lack of cleanliness, etc. (big chunk of silicon blocking an oil passage or something)
It will be interesting to see the pics of your bearings when you get the motor open. I am curious as to where the metal in your oil filter was coming from.
Kirk
To remove the front pulley, I locked the crankshaft at the back of the motor, and then removed the front pulley bolt.
I went to put a standard 3 arm puller on the front pulley, and before I did more than hand tighten it on the pulley, the pulley popped off. No special tools required.
I ordered up the special tool for the cam gear, but it hasnt arrived (or shipped) from Pelican yet. I sent them an email today asking what happened to it. (been about 20 days since I ordered it)
For my knock sensors I pulled the wire through the rear shield and the wire is still connected at the knock sensors. I haven't pulled the sensors off yet. I noticed before I cleaned my engine that these sensors were one of the sources of my oil leaks.
If the top end of my motor looks ok, I am going to just do a top end rebuild, and combined with all the clutch/flywheel parts, that should be enough $$ for me for right now.
We should ask around and see what other people have done for their motor rebuilds. I see several places offer complete kits with all the gaskets and pieces.
for example:
http://www.motormeister.com/suz/rebu...ld_kit_911.htm
(Anyone bought a complete rebuild kit from somewhere and have any advice to offer?)
I have found in the past that work done in shops will generally be of poor quality. The reason for your regular rebuilds is probably nothing more sinister than poor attention to detail by the mechanics. improper torques, lack of cleanliness, etc. (big chunk of silicon blocking an oil passage or something)
It will be interesting to see the pics of your bearings when you get the motor open. I am curious as to where the metal in your oil filter was coming from.
Kirk
11-21-2005, 06:31 PM
#48
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I was warned not to use a standard puller to remove the front pulley, it is possible to damage the harmonic balancer. You only need Special Tool 9290 if you plan to remove the pulley with the engine still in the car (but lowered). If you've pulled the engine & tranny than all you need is 9285/1. If you don't want to spend $20USD on 9285/1 you can instead buy an M16 x 55 x 1.5 bolt and grind off about 35mm of thread. On the ground away portion of the bolt you want the diameter to be 12mm. I'll try to post an article (pulley seal replacement) with pictures later tonight.
11-22-2005, 03:01 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
Kirk, how many miles on your engine? Bottom end is usually solid unless you have some metal shavings in the oil. The knock sensors are just a solid bar of metal and so they can not be a source of leakage.
steve
steve
11-22-2005, 11:26 AM
#54
Three Wheelin'
Steve,
My motor has 200,000 km on it (120,000 miles).
Here is a picture of the top of my motor. Its not as easy to see in the picture, but around each knock sensor bolt there is a 'dried lava flow' of oil where it appears to have been seaping past the bolt threads,pooling and drying.
Kirk
My motor has 200,000 km on it (120,000 miles).
Here is a picture of the top of my motor. Its not as easy to see in the picture, but around each knock sensor bolt there is a 'dried lava flow' of oil where it appears to have been seaping past the bolt threads,pooling and drying.
Kirk
11-22-2005, 11:50 AM
#55
The oil leak on your engine looks like they are coming from two places. The first is the pressure sensor and/or breather. The second is from the through bolts on cylinder 1,2,3, and 6. The knock sensor is just a metal bridge that secures to the cylinder. There is oil involved in the knock sensor.
One very important thing here in re-installing the knock sensor. Do this or you will regret it, and possibly have to undo hours of work. Install the knock sensor bridge on the cylinders BEFORE you tighten up the head stud or installing the camshaft housing. Because the cylinders needs to aligned.
----
anthony
One very important thing here in re-installing the knock sensor. Do this or you will regret it, and possibly have to undo hours of work. Install the knock sensor bridge on the cylinders BEFORE you tighten up the head stud or installing the camshaft housing. Because the cylinders needs to aligned.
----
anthony
11-22-2005, 11:54 AM
#56
Rennlist Member
I agree with axl on your leaks. In his comment, he meant to say that there is NO oil involved in the knock sensor. On the knock sensor, install but I think you can final torque after you have torqued your head studs.
At 120k, the bottom end is most likely fine. Just check your oil for any issues, any metal, funny discoloration, etc. You might want to pull off the cylinders and check your ring wear.
Mine had 160k and I went all the way down, just to do it. The crank was deadnuts on specs. All P&Cs were perfect. Even had honing marks still in the cylinders. Cylinder bore measurements all in spec.
My issue was worn valve stem guides.
At 120k, the bottom end is most likely fine. Just check your oil for any issues, any metal, funny discoloration, etc. You might want to pull off the cylinders and check your ring wear.
Mine had 160k and I went all the way down, just to do it. The crank was deadnuts on specs. All P&Cs were perfect. Even had honing marks still in the cylinders. Cylinder bore measurements all in spec.
My issue was worn valve stem guides.
11-22-2005, 04:09 PM
#57
Three Wheelin'
Steve / Anthony
Well now you have me curious. When I looked at this motor, in real life it looks very obvious that oil was seeping out from the knock sensor bolts. I assumed that the bolts went deep enough to go through to an oil gallery or other 'wet' part of the cylinder.
When I get home I will pull out the knock sensor to have a look.
This was one of the many oil leaks my motor was suffering from, the big ones appear the be the leak from the cylinder head bolts & head mating surfaces and the oil sensor at the back of the motor.
I intend on tearing the top end down to the point where i remove the cylinders, and then I will make a decision on whether I will bother to split the cases or not.
When you guys rebuilt your motors did you buy a kit with all the parts or did you order all the parts seperately? (and if so who did you order from?)
Thanx
Kirk
Well now you have me curious. When I looked at this motor, in real life it looks very obvious that oil was seeping out from the knock sensor bolts. I assumed that the bolts went deep enough to go through to an oil gallery or other 'wet' part of the cylinder.
When I get home I will pull out the knock sensor to have a look.
This was one of the many oil leaks my motor was suffering from, the big ones appear the be the leak from the cylinder head bolts & head mating surfaces and the oil sensor at the back of the motor.
I intend on tearing the top end down to the point where i remove the cylinders, and then I will make a decision on whether I will bother to split the cases or not.
When you guys rebuilt your motors did you buy a kit with all the parts or did you order all the parts seperately? (and if so who did you order from?)
Thanx
Kirk
11-22-2005, 05:09 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
Sundog
5 cans of gunk degreaser and a pressure washer.
Took me forever to get the baked on oil off!
Kirk
(Pelican just emailed to say my cam tool has been shipped. yay.)
5 cans of gunk degreaser and a pressure washer.
Took me forever to get the baked on oil off!
Kirk
(Pelican just emailed to say my cam tool has been shipped. yay.)
11-22-2005, 06:12 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
I would suspect most of the oil is from the through bolts that hold the case together rather than from the bottom of the cylinder mating with the case.
I bought a gasket kit for the top end and a separate gasket kit for the bottom from my local Porsche mechanic who does my servicing. I bought parts as needed from him, Porsche and Pelican Parts.
Always nice to work on a clean engine. Well done.
I bought a gasket kit for the top end and a separate gasket kit for the bottom from my local Porsche mechanic who does my servicing. I bought parts as needed from him, Porsche and Pelican Parts.
Always nice to work on a clean engine. Well done.