Motor Mounts...anyone try these?
05-21-2015, 11:09 PM
#16
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they certainly look stout...well-made by appearances.
wondering what shipping from Polska to US is...
on another note, the 928 guys have a similar situation to us - Genuine mounts are nuts expensive, aftermarkets are mostly crap...they have their own semi-solids...they found that a Volvo and Ford engine mount work perfectly in their applications and are super cheap...i'd like to see if there is something similar for us
wondering what shipping from Polska to US is...
on another note, the 928 guys have a similar situation to us - Genuine mounts are nuts expensive, aftermarkets are mostly crap...they have their own semi-solids...they found that a Volvo and Ford engine mount work perfectly in their applications and are super cheap...i'd like to see if there is something similar for us
If you ever find a solution, you should be enshrined in the Rennlist 944 hall of fame for saving us all lots of $$$$ on motor mounts.
05-21-2015, 11:13 PM
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Hi, I purchsed a set of these and while they seem well made and good quality , the bolt would not fit through the aluminium engine mounts without enlarging the holes which I did not wish to do, so they went to the back of the garage to try another day and put some lindsey mounts on instead.
From my understanding, new mounts sometimes require new hardware( you have to measure), did you ask the seller if they provide or know what is recommended for hardware?
05-22-2015, 01:02 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Rein mounts are OE porsche mounts with porsche numbers and sign ground off with hand tool. All else is 100% identical.
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...l#post11685877
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...l#post11685877
Is it possible they are reject mounts that don't meet Porsche specification?
(next question: does it matter?)
I'm not as brave as you. I wouldn't claim that they ARE 100% identical, just that they APPEAR 100% identical.
I've got a Rolex like that...
Cheers,
Mike
05-22-2015, 03:04 AM
#20
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They might be rejects, but they certainly were made on the exact same tooling and had factory numbers and porsche logo on it.
Im not sure porsche would test each mount and reject some, after all it is a rubber cast filled with oil. If it holds oil it should be good.
Usually the technology used on a part is a property of some company that porsche choosed to buy from. These companies have their own selling channels beside the OE customers but the problem is that porsche PN and logo are porsche property.
So they sell their tech since it is their in the first place, but must erase porsche logos off.
It happens with a lot of VW/Audi/Porsche parts, I recently bought electronic thermostat for audi from Behr and it had VW number erased with dremel or similar tool(some numbers were still visible under certain light angle), everything else 100% same as OE part I removed.
Im not sure porsche would test each mount and reject some, after all it is a rubber cast filled with oil. If it holds oil it should be good.
Usually the technology used on a part is a property of some company that porsche choosed to buy from. These companies have their own selling channels beside the OE customers but the problem is that porsche PN and logo are porsche property.
So they sell their tech since it is their in the first place, but must erase porsche logos off.
It happens with a lot of VW/Audi/Porsche parts, I recently bought electronic thermostat for audi from Behr and it had VW number erased with dremel or similar tool(some numbers were still visible under certain light angle), everything else 100% same as OE part I removed.
05-22-2015, 07:14 AM
#21
Drifting
05-22-2015, 09:19 AM
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they certainly look stout...well-made by appearances.
wondering what shipping from Polska to US is...
on another note, the 928 guys have a similar situation to us - Genuine mounts are nuts expensive, aftermarkets are mostly crap...they have their own semi-solids...they found that a Volvo and Ford engine mount work perfectly in their applications and are super cheap...i'd like to see if there is something similar for us
wondering what shipping from Polska to US is...
on another note, the 928 guys have a similar situation to us - Genuine mounts are nuts expensive, aftermarkets are mostly crap...they have their own semi-solids...they found that a Volvo and Ford engine mount work perfectly in their applications and are super cheap...i'd like to see if there is something similar for us
05-22-2015, 09:53 AM
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05-22-2015, 10:44 AM
#25
Someone in sweden bought a pair of the mounts from poland and his was 1,5cm too high so he had to modify them.
I made my mounts using parts of the old mount and a new volvo 240 diesel (stiffer material) rubber engine mount
http://www1.garaget.org/gallery/arch...058_z0c4wf.jpg
I made my mounts using parts of the old mount and a new volvo 240 diesel (stiffer material) rubber engine mount
http://www1.garaget.org/gallery/arch...058_z0c4wf.jpg
05-22-2015, 04:25 PM
#27
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Just make sure you have your balance shafts are timed correctly and you should be fine with semi-solid mounts.
05-22-2015, 07:07 PM
#28
Three Wheelin'
They might be rejects, but they certainly were made on the exact same tooling and had factory numbers and porsche logo on it.
Im not sure porsche would test each mount and reject some, after all it is a rubber cast filled with oil. If it holds oil it should be good.
Usually the technology used on a part is a property of some company that porsche choosed to buy from. These companies have their own selling channels beside the OE customers but the problem is that porsche PN and logo are porsche property.
So they sell their tech since it is their in the first place, but must erase porsche logos off.
It happens with a lot of VW/Audi/Porsche parts, I recently bought electronic thermostat for audi from Behr and it had VW number erased with dremel or similar tool(some numbers were still visible under certain light angle), everything else 100% same as OE part I removed.
Im not sure porsche would test each mount and reject some, after all it is a rubber cast filled with oil. If it holds oil it should be good.
Usually the technology used on a part is a property of some company that porsche choosed to buy from. These companies have their own selling channels beside the OE customers but the problem is that porsche PN and logo are porsche property.
So they sell their tech since it is their in the first place, but must erase porsche logos off.
It happens with a lot of VW/Audi/Porsche parts, I recently bought electronic thermostat for audi from Behr and it had VW number erased with dremel or similar tool(some numbers were still visible under certain light angle), everything else 100% same as OE part I removed.
It wouldn't be Porsche testing them, it would be done by the manufacturer as per the contract.
This is quite common. Think aircraft bolts.
The engine mounts are filled with oil because they provide damping, same as the shock absorbers on your car.
It is possible that Porsche requires performance tests for the OE mounts - which can be why OE parts are more expensive. Think aircraft bolts again. You pay extra for assured performance and tighter quality control.
Porsche, like most car manufacturers, have a contract with their suppliers which specifies that the supplier cannot on-sell parts of the same quality/performance that they supply to Porsche.
Often this means that the supplier can only on-sell a previous version of a part, once it has been superceded.
So for any Porsche part number that has the last digit (revision status) higher than 1, you cannot be sure that the OEM part is current spec.
This is certainly the case with 951/944S2 brake discs. None of the "OEM" or aftermarket discs match or copy the latest Porsche version. And the latest Porsche version has a number of key performance advances over the earlier version.
Lotus twin cam engine blocks were made on the same production line as basic Ford blocks, in the same batches with the Ford blocks, identical production process, indistinguishable to the naked eye.
Yet every Lotus/Ford nut knows why the Lotus blocks are better for a high performance engine build, and hence why they are now 50 times the price...
Cheers,
Mike
05-22-2015, 07:59 PM
#30
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Interesting pdf, it is a complete science as with most parts.
I believe it is possible that the rein mount either really didn't pass strict testing procedure, or it indeed is the exact same part as porsche boxed ones.
If the composition of all materials and production methods are 100% the same and some of these products fall slightly under the margins set by porsche, it is still probably better than all copies, will last close to the original and costs half of the factory part.
The other option is this loophole affair, described by pelican CEO, could be it even sheds light on the reason for lack of rein 944 mounts lately:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...l#post10522369
I believe it is possible that the rein mount either really didn't pass strict testing procedure, or it indeed is the exact same part as porsche boxed ones.
If the composition of all materials and production methods are 100% the same and some of these products fall slightly under the margins set by porsche, it is still probably better than all copies, will last close to the original and costs half of the factory part.
The other option is this loophole affair, described by pelican CEO, could be it even sheds light on the reason for lack of rein 944 mounts lately:
Hi Guys. I would like to apologize for the confusion here - there unfortunately is no simple answer. I will try to add some clarity however.
Let's start by discussing the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) that sell to the car manufacturers (Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, etc.). They produce many parts for them for use on new vehicles. I believe this where most of their revenue tends to come from. In addition, they also supply parts for the replacement parts supply chain within the manufacturers dealer network. I.E. they produce parts for Porsche that Porsche then places in their "Genuine Porsche " boxes and sells to their dealers as replacement parts. This business is also lucrative for the OEM manufacturers.
Then, there's the third chain, the one that Pelican taps into (to save everyone money). This is where the OEM manufacturers sell parts directly to Pelican and our suppliers. Sometimes there are contracts that these OEM manufacturers have with the manufacturer (Porsche) that detail that they cannot sell the exact same part through the third channel (outside of the control of Porsche). So, the OEM manufacturer may use many different tricks and loopholes to get around these restrictions. As a side note too, sometimes the OEM manufacturer doesn't even want the car manufacturer (Porsche) to know they are stuffing these parts out the back channel - in reality, sometimes it's difficult to tell where these come from if you're an end-consumer.
So, this is the case with these motor mounts. Rein is a distributor of German parts - they buy parts from the OEM manufacturer and then box them in their own "Rein" branded boxes. This would be the same as if Pelican bought parts in bulk from an OEM manufacturer in Europe and then "reboxed" them into a Pelican box. The mounts are manufactured by a company that is a subsidiary of CFW/Corteco. This company's name (which I have been asked not to post publicly) starts with a "V", and that is why the markings show that.
So, why do the parts not have an OEM part number? Because the manufacturers (Porsche especially) have trademarked their part numbering system and do not allow aftermarket parts to include that part number. It's way more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it. It's also why you might often see a part come in a box that looks brand new, but has a Porsche or BMW logo that was cast into the part - that casting is sometimes ground off. The reason why is because these parts were manufactured using the same molds and tooling used for the Porsche part, but the trademark needs be removed before it can enter the "alternative distribution channel".
Sorry for all the cloak-and-dagger stuff, but getting parts through these channels keeps the aftermarket and companies like Pelican alive and thriving. We can sell the same part from the same manufacturing line as the Genuine part, often for 1/3 the cost or less. Having to deal with these little confusion issues has been something that we've been working with for the past 15 years, and it's just part of the business. In general, it's not something that we like to see discussed in length on discussion boards because it can spook the manufacturers sometimes (this has indeed happened in the past).
I hope this helps to clarify, and thanks everyone for your continued support!
-Wayne
P.S. Pls forgive the "new user" account - my old account was converted over to our Pelican Sponsor account...
Wayne R. Dempsey
CEO, Pelican Parts Inc.
Let's start by discussing the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) that sell to the car manufacturers (Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, etc.). They produce many parts for them for use on new vehicles. I believe this where most of their revenue tends to come from. In addition, they also supply parts for the replacement parts supply chain within the manufacturers dealer network. I.E. they produce parts for Porsche that Porsche then places in their "Genuine Porsche " boxes and sells to their dealers as replacement parts. This business is also lucrative for the OEM manufacturers.
Then, there's the third chain, the one that Pelican taps into (to save everyone money). This is where the OEM manufacturers sell parts directly to Pelican and our suppliers. Sometimes there are contracts that these OEM manufacturers have with the manufacturer (Porsche) that detail that they cannot sell the exact same part through the third channel (outside of the control of Porsche). So, the OEM manufacturer may use many different tricks and loopholes to get around these restrictions. As a side note too, sometimes the OEM manufacturer doesn't even want the car manufacturer (Porsche) to know they are stuffing these parts out the back channel - in reality, sometimes it's difficult to tell where these come from if you're an end-consumer.
So, this is the case with these motor mounts. Rein is a distributor of German parts - they buy parts from the OEM manufacturer and then box them in their own "Rein" branded boxes. This would be the same as if Pelican bought parts in bulk from an OEM manufacturer in Europe and then "reboxed" them into a Pelican box. The mounts are manufactured by a company that is a subsidiary of CFW/Corteco. This company's name (which I have been asked not to post publicly) starts with a "V", and that is why the markings show that.
So, why do the parts not have an OEM part number? Because the manufacturers (Porsche especially) have trademarked their part numbering system and do not allow aftermarket parts to include that part number. It's way more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it. It's also why you might often see a part come in a box that looks brand new, but has a Porsche or BMW logo that was cast into the part - that casting is sometimes ground off. The reason why is because these parts were manufactured using the same molds and tooling used for the Porsche part, but the trademark needs be removed before it can enter the "alternative distribution channel".
Sorry for all the cloak-and-dagger stuff, but getting parts through these channels keeps the aftermarket and companies like Pelican alive and thriving. We can sell the same part from the same manufacturing line as the Genuine part, often for 1/3 the cost or less. Having to deal with these little confusion issues has been something that we've been working with for the past 15 years, and it's just part of the business. In general, it's not something that we like to see discussed in length on discussion boards because it can spook the manufacturers sometimes (this has indeed happened in the past).
I hope this helps to clarify, and thanks everyone for your continued support!
-Wayne
P.S. Pls forgive the "new user" account - my old account was converted over to our Pelican Sponsor account...
Wayne R. Dempsey
CEO, Pelican Parts Inc.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...l#post10522369