Another Bilstein Escort Cup Spring Question
02-04-2015, 03:23 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
Hi Jim,
I only briefly tried helper coil over springs with the stock '86 T-bars. Admittedly I was not using the best setup, they were actually used 968M030 rear shocks, so the spring perches were not adjustable.
Nonetheless, I re-indexed the rear torsion bars so the spring plates were horizontal at rest and installed the Elephant spring plate bushings at the same time.
The resulting ride height was exactly where I wanted it, and normal street driving and mildly sprited driving felt OK. However, during hard cornering, I could feel the sudden ramp-up in spring rate as the outside rear coil compressed, and that combined with the inadequate damping resulted in a feeling of the 2 springs fighting each other.
Lacking a coil over adjustment, I played around with rear eccentric height and sway bar settings and never got it to feel right. I went with proper Ground Control inverted rear coil overs and pulled out the T-bars, and the handling is great.
I do realize that half of my problem may have been inadequate rear damping, but even with a properly valved rear coilover shock, it does seem like a lot of work to get the 2 systems to work with each other. It only seems worth it if you are forced to because of PCA class rules.
Thanks,
Chris
I only briefly tried helper coil over springs with the stock '86 T-bars. Admittedly I was not using the best setup, they were actually used 968M030 rear shocks, so the spring perches were not adjustable.
Nonetheless, I re-indexed the rear torsion bars so the spring plates were horizontal at rest and installed the Elephant spring plate bushings at the same time.
The resulting ride height was exactly where I wanted it, and normal street driving and mildly sprited driving felt OK. However, during hard cornering, I could feel the sudden ramp-up in spring rate as the outside rear coil compressed, and that combined with the inadequate damping resulted in a feeling of the 2 springs fighting each other.
Lacking a coil over adjustment, I played around with rear eccentric height and sway bar settings and never got it to feel right. I went with proper Ground Control inverted rear coil overs and pulled out the T-bars, and the handling is great.
I do realize that half of my problem may have been inadequate rear damping, but even with a properly valved rear coilover shock, it does seem like a lot of work to get the 2 systems to work with each other. It only seems worth it if you are forced to because of PCA class rules.
Thanks,
Chris
Along the lines of the thread - you can develop quite a collection of spare springs when playing with suspension setups. Once you sort out the balance that works best for a particular car/driver/track setup, you can use the math modeling (effective rates) to predict similar front/rear balance when pairing higher or lower spring rates. The trick and the time is figuring out what balance feels best and/or is the fastest for you (front effective/rear effective = ????).
04-15-2016, 06:29 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
A little update on my suspension and something I wish I had known before I started is that on the Bilstein Escort rear, you should use a 6" spring. I bought 400# 7" and I have them on their lowest absolute setting and the car is at the highest point you would ever want, probably right around stock, maybe a slight touch lower. It works for now but like I said, I can't go any lower at all. With a 6" spring, I would have much more options and a 6" spring is so much easier to find than the 7". Of course this is WITH the stock torsion bars so without the bars, 7" would probably be fine although the 400# rate wouldn't.
I like the 400# rate for the rear. The car feels much nicer now and really handles well. I also finally got a matched set of Michelin Super Sports so I'm sure that comes into play for my newfound happiness. I still need to get the fronts sorted and maybe raise the front a touch for ride. The ride is ok but certain bumps really cause pain. But most bumps, especially dips, are absorbed quite well with no bottoming. And on some raised bumps, I find myself enjoying the feel of the shock absorbing the bump and then continuing on. You would definitely have to love a super stiff set up to live with these but adding the 400# rear spring actually made things feel better even if not any softer; it's stiffer but with more stability if that makes any sense. You often hear of people stating that the car rides better when going with a stiff spring and it does, but in a certain way that you have to feel to understand.
So, more to come but for now, stay with 6" rear springs on the Bilstein Escort shocks. Dave Lindsey was the only one who told me this and I should have listened.
I like the 400# rate for the rear. The car feels much nicer now and really handles well. I also finally got a matched set of Michelin Super Sports so I'm sure that comes into play for my newfound happiness. I still need to get the fronts sorted and maybe raise the front a touch for ride. The ride is ok but certain bumps really cause pain. But most bumps, especially dips, are absorbed quite well with no bottoming. And on some raised bumps, I find myself enjoying the feel of the shock absorbing the bump and then continuing on. You would definitely have to love a super stiff set up to live with these but adding the 400# rear spring actually made things feel better even if not any softer; it's stiffer but with more stability if that makes any sense. You often hear of people stating that the car rides better when going with a stiff spring and it does, but in a certain way that you have to feel to understand.
So, more to come but for now, stay with 6" rear springs on the Bilstein Escort shocks. Dave Lindsey was the only one who told me this and I should have listened.