samana76

Hello everyone.

I would like to introduce myself to the forum. I recently purchased a fabulous 1988 951 S in guard red paint, black leather interior and a 968 rear spoiler. It has been meticulously maintained by two prior owners and now the joy of driving and maintaining this beautiful machine has been passed on to me. I am very proud of it and will continue to give it the same loving care attention the previous owners dedicated it. However I won't pansy it and putting aside it's racing pedigree; in fact next Sunday I will be taking it to Laguna Seca for our (mine and its) very first track day. I am very excited about it.

The first thing I am doing is replacing the original exhaust as the end tip was rusted and was beginning to fall off. After reading many posts here I decided to go with the Fabspeed performance exhaust package which consists of the 3.0” maxflo mufflers with deluxe tip, catbypass with downpipe, and turbo outlet pipe. Although I read that the installation should be simple, a direct bolt off - bolt on process that one can do on his own at home, I opted to have it installed by a professional who is also an acquaintance of mine.
Unfortunately there seems to be quite a bit of difficulty installing the system. The biggest problem seems to be the turbo outlet pipe. The muffler guy tells me that to install this pipe he had to remove the intake manifold and loosen up the turbo and he still has problems fitting it. What I thought would take 3-4 hours, maybe 5 due to fiddling to get the old exhaust off, is taking 2 days. It doesn't help that the Fabspeed system comes with no instructions. Now, this acquaintance has been installing mufflers for nearly 20 years on all sorts of cars, including high performance cars, and is well known in my area for his quality work, so I trust what he is doing. I just wanted to check with others to see if any of you have encountered this problem. I think it's strange I haven't read anywhere that installing the Fabspeed exhaust would be so time consuming. I thought it would cost me around $500 to get the exhaust installed, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if the muffler guy asks me $1000 for the hours of work he put into it. Adding that to the price of the exhaust itself, it will cost nearly $3000 for a new exhaust system. This seems high to me.
Any thoughts and/or experiences others may have had with this exhaust system and would like to share, I am interested in hearing them.
Thank you.

Looking forward to contributing and receiving much from this forum.
Igor

PorscheDoc

If you are installing the turbo downpipe, then yes, the entire turbo needs to come off to fit it. You can't just try and partially pull the turbo. Take it off, put it on the bench, fit the new pipe, reinstall the turbo.

If you are installing the catpipe/cat bypass pipe, then it is just the 3 bolts from underneath. Most people don't do the downpipe, they just do the main exhaust section (catbypass pipe and cat back muffler), which takes about 3-4 hours tops. Unfortunately, Fabspeed doesn't install the down pipes, so they probably don't know what it takes to do so. I sent them a stock pipe years ago, which they copied and produced a new DP from it, so they never had a car apart per sae when they fabbed up that pipe. They just copied the OEM pipe.

No offense to your mechanic, but any good 944 mechanic knows exactly what it takes to install the DP, and should have informed you it was labor intensive to do so. He will also likely have trim the body seam very slightly on the driver side to keep everything from rubbing with the main exhaust catbypass section. It takes seconds and has been well documented on rennlist.

jb-kix

Huh, i put my fabspeed on at the man cave where we have a lift ,it took me about 2an a half hours,
all went pretty good ,i mean it was tight ,but i did it ,and im not a mechanic at any means just luck to have all the cool tools!

Tom M'Guinn

From the turbo to the exhaust tip there are three pipes. The first is the "downpipe" that bolts directly to the turbo. It's a bended pipe less than a foot long. To replace this pipe, the turbo has to be removed with the pipe attached, so the pipe can be replaced and the turbo reinstalled. The second is the catalytic converter (or test pipe). It bolts to the downpipe via a 3 bolt flange. This pipe can be replaced fairly easily, just using a little care to avoid rubbing on anything when you go to 3". The third and last pipe is the muffler section. This is the easiest of all to change -- should go in and out in no time. Based on your description, it sounds like you are replacing all three pieces. Most folks do the downpipe when they replace the turbo and not as a separate upgrade, since it is a chore to pull the turbo.

By the way, do yourself a favor and have an O2 sensor bung welded into the test pipe now for a future wideband system. Best place is on the bend near the starter -- search here for pictures.

BF951

I too had a direct bolt on 3" exhaust. Early on it was obvious it was going to take some modification. Consider making cuts through the pipe to correct the angles. Make the cuts leaving only enough material where you can close or widen the gap u made w/ the cut changing the shape of the pipe as you need it. You can do most of this with the pipes on the car only taking them off once everything is lined up and you can make the final weld on the bench.

BF951

Sorry for the two parts. Phone problems. Tried all day to line it up, ESP waste gate inlet. Went very quick one I started making the cuts. You exhaust guy should be able to do this and tack up the seams and get some quality SS welds when it's off the car.
Good luck!

URG8RB8

I was able to install all three without removing the turbo and no bending and/or any other modifications. I am at work and on my phone so can't post pictures but will try later tonight. It all depends on your experience, ability. and access to good tools. I had a helper and took less than five hours. The downpipe was a bit of a bitch. But not due to Fabspeed product. I think without the downpipe you could do it in an hour or two.
+1 for welding your O2 bung prio to installation.

URG8RB8

Forgot to mention, I don't have stock turbo and I did pull intake manifold along with just about everything else in and around the turbo. Bits and pieces keep coming back now, I had to turn down a couple sockets on the lathe to make very thin wall and cut up some wrenches on the end mill. Without this I don't think it would be possible.

numbskull

The 3" fabspeed kit fits well with stock k26/6 and downpipe. Anything not stock might have issues with clearance. What I like about the kit is it's 3 pieces.. off the stock turbo short downpipe is the longer dowpipe, the slip fit test pipe or race cat option, and the cat back pipe muffler. The slip fit gives a descent amount of wiggle room. If the short downpipe is too short, try using 2 copper gaskets on either side, I know fabspeed sells them with the kit. Where is it hung up exactly?

URG8RB8

Here are some pics of mine, don't think it will help any, but it sure is pretty!

ahetzel

I had my local Porsche Race shop install the Fabspeed 3" cat bypass and cat-back exhaust. Definitely tight in a few areas but on in 3 hours with one follow-up adjustment for a slight knock. No problems and has been great!

samana76

Thank you everyone for your contribution to this thread. I would like to clarify that I am having all three components of the exhaust installed. So I am indeed having the "downpipe" that bolts directly to the turbo installed as well. When I got into this I, and my exhaust guy, had no idea it would have been this difficult and time consuming. He is an expert exhaust installer and fabricator, not specifically a mechanic (although he is a competent mechanic as well), and has never installed the "downpipe" on a 951. So this is a learning process for him as well.
He is still having problems pulling the turbo. He removed many other components: intake manifold, waste gate, and loads of other parts and is still not able to get the turbo out. He and I have both been looking on line, here, and elsewhere for a step by step procedure in removing the turbo, but to no avail. I have the Haynes book but that only says to bring it to a dealership to have the turbo checked. My exahust guy is now checking with ONDATA.COM to see if he finds any info there. If someone here can point me in the right direction, either by passing on a link to where I can find the steps to this procedure or by writing them here directly I would greatly appreciate it. This is becoming a very large project which I really did not expect, but I'm here now and want to have the job done right.

x Tom M'Guinn I took your advice and am having the O2 sensor bung welded into the test pipe.

Also, since many of the parts are off the car now, can any of you suggest any quick upgrades I can have done. The waste gate is off and I think many people have something done to it or replace it with another one. I don't want to get into doing a lot of expensive and time consuming performance upgrades right now, just quick ones to take advantage of the fact that the engine is partly disassembled.
Also I want to have the car ready for this Sunday as I'm taking it for it's very first track day at Laguna Seca.

Thank you all for your help.

Tom M'Guinn

If you click on the link below I have several "how-to" instructions written up, including a very old set of instructions for removing the turbo. It is so old, it was done before I had a digital camera, so no photos. Also see www.Clarks-garage.com for another simpler set of instructions. As for other upgrades, go for chips (or maf), tial wastegate, boost controller and Sunoco GT104 for the track.

And, if you are removing the turbo anyway, upgrading it with something bigger (see Vitesseracing.com) is a fast was to make more power...)

URG8RB8

+1 for Clark's Garage!

3:00 am and just finished Halloween party in Bangkok, but you should call Vic at Pauer Tuning an get his wastegate kit while you are in there. Search my alias for pics and so forth. Good luck you will enjoy. Again, I did not remove the turbo. I am sure you can have somebody make the proper tools needed, but maybe easier to pull turbo if true CA car.

odb812

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/eng-16.htm

That's just about everything you need to know about taking off the turbo. He's also going to need about $60-70 worth of seals and gaskets to put everything back together, depending on where you get the parts. Like Tom said, it's best to replace the downpipe when you're replacing the turbo.

So you're doing Laguna with Trackmasters? They're a good group to run with around here. Are you getting an instructor?