Is it that bad?
03-28-2017, 11:41 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
03-28-2017, 11:50 PM
#32
Drifting
928 reliable?
OK, Here's my take: About 6 years ago I found an '83 928 Euro-S 5-speed on the lot of Black Tie Classic Autos. Cobalt Blue, Cup-1 wheels, 164K+ miles and no service records. The interior was pretty good, except for the cracked dash and the back of the driver's side rear seat being ripped, and it fired up and ran without any smoke or 'pricey noises'. I usually got off work after the sales office was closed, so I got to know the lot manager and he let me put it in the air,check it out and run it around. ("Don't take it off the lot") He said not to go over $4K for it. I joined Rennlist and ran the VIN and did almost a year of 'due diligence' before I bought in. I found out that it was kind of 'rare', only 719 5-speed Euro's made in '83 and mine has all matching numbers!. They wanted $5900 for the car but I used the 'Bad Reputation' of the 928 to talk the price down to $3500. I know I lucked out with this one, but I bought "ZOOMHILDA" for about the amount I'd have to put down to RENT a piece of Detroit 'pig iron' for 4 years.
In the past 6 years I've put about $4k more in parts into it, so I figure I'm about $2K into it above the asking price. I'm cool with that.
I like working on cars(mostly) and I've done all the work on 2 '73 Mazda RX-3s and an RX-7 that I owned. Mine is a CIS car so there's no computer. While working on my shark is 'involved' I don't find it technically difficult. It may only take 30 minutes to replace 'part-X' BUT it takes 2 hours to remove things so you can get to 'part-X'. LOL`
Now a brief sagacity about 928 'reliability'. The 3" hose that connects the engine block to the heater core failed the weekend before FRENZY. I was already booked to go, so I capped off the block and heater core connections and went anyway. Down to Sterling Va. from the Phila. area, charging around with the gang all weekend and then back home in 90* heat. When I got back home I found out that I drove the whole time with the coolant tank cap loose!! All the way there and back, and it didn't overheat!! Despite spending an hour and a half to cover 19 miles on the Washington Beltway AND turning up to 4,000 RPM in 5th on the way home!!! The ONLY problem I had was with me!! Because my A.C doesn't work (NO R-12), I came down with heat exhaustion and missed all the fun on Friday Night.
Dr. Porsche said: "I built my cars to be DRIVEN, Not polished!" and he's right. These cars don't fare will if left to sit. I took mine to 4 car shows when I first got it and brought home trophies TWICE! I show mine in 'Survivor Class': The car must be 'factory stock', be more than 25 years old, have at least 5K miles per year on it and you have to drive it to the show.
I'm VERY glad I got my 928. It's an absolutely monstrous piece of "Compulsive Teutonic Over-Engineering by Porsche"! They don't make cars like this anymore AND THEY NEVER WILL!! That's why I'll never sell mine.
In the past 6 years I've put about $4k more in parts into it, so I figure I'm about $2K into it above the asking price. I'm cool with that.
I like working on cars(mostly) and I've done all the work on 2 '73 Mazda RX-3s and an RX-7 that I owned. Mine is a CIS car so there's no computer. While working on my shark is 'involved' I don't find it technically difficult. It may only take 30 minutes to replace 'part-X' BUT it takes 2 hours to remove things so you can get to 'part-X'. LOL`
Now a brief sagacity about 928 'reliability'. The 3" hose that connects the engine block to the heater core failed the weekend before FRENZY. I was already booked to go, so I capped off the block and heater core connections and went anyway. Down to Sterling Va. from the Phila. area, charging around with the gang all weekend and then back home in 90* heat. When I got back home I found out that I drove the whole time with the coolant tank cap loose!! All the way there and back, and it didn't overheat!! Despite spending an hour and a half to cover 19 miles on the Washington Beltway AND turning up to 4,000 RPM in 5th on the way home!!! The ONLY problem I had was with me!! Because my A.C doesn't work (NO R-12), I came down with heat exhaustion and missed all the fun on Friday Night.
Dr. Porsche said: "I built my cars to be DRIVEN, Not polished!" and he's right. These cars don't fare will if left to sit. I took mine to 4 car shows when I first got it and brought home trophies TWICE! I show mine in 'Survivor Class': The car must be 'factory stock', be more than 25 years old, have at least 5K miles per year on it and you have to drive it to the show.
I'm VERY glad I got my 928. It's an absolutely monstrous piece of "Compulsive Teutonic Over-Engineering by Porsche"! They don't make cars like this anymore AND THEY NEVER WILL!! That's why I'll never sell mine.
03-28-2017, 11:53 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
This is a forum that people come to with their problems. There are a few posts of "I just looked in the garage and smiled." but by and large, we have issues.
And we get them SOLVED here.
We pretty much all love this car and we find it worth the trouble and pain. The ones who don't, generally aren't around because they got rid of it. So Daniel has a point.
Something else, this is one of the most active forums on RL; usually over 200 logged on here. That should tell you something as well.
03-29-2017, 12:32 AM
#34
very attractive car you are looking at. One should consider what even a cheapo new car goes for when buying a 928. $15K is pnuts. I broke a few rules when I bought my 79. There are zero maintenance records. The PO did it all himself and verbally told me what he did. I am the same kind of guy. I personally think buying a 38 year old car for transportation is a really dumb idea. Buy it, drive it and love it but get a late model car to drive to work.
03-29-2017, 12:40 AM
#35
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
There isn't argument about performance - it has been a long time since the 928S ruled the performance world. My other V8 Porsche - a 2006 Cayenne S - I think would crush my 928 in a stoplight race. But that's not the point of owning a 928S in 2017.
You cannot compare the 996. Collectors cars are about exclusivity and low production numbers. They made some 60,000 928s in 17 years of production. They made that same number in year two of the 996. They made more than 175,000 996s by the end of its sixth and final year of production, and then they made a similar number of the superior successor 997. That's a lot of cars. The newer cars will never have the collector status of the older cars for that reason, and also because they simply aren't made as well. Their interiors, exteriors and mechanicals are nothing like the older cars. Watch the videos on 928 and 911 production in Stuttgart - they were largely handmade. What do you think a 40 year old 996 will look like? It will look like whatever it was recycled into, most likely. That said, there is no question that the 996 and some 997s are a great performance bargain. Apples and oranges.
You cannot compare the 996. Collectors cars are about exclusivity and low production numbers. They made some 60,000 928s in 17 years of production. They made that same number in year two of the 996. They made more than 175,000 996s by the end of its sixth and final year of production, and then they made a similar number of the superior successor 997. That's a lot of cars. The newer cars will never have the collector status of the older cars for that reason, and also because they simply aren't made as well. Their interiors, exteriors and mechanicals are nothing like the older cars. Watch the videos on 928 and 911 production in Stuttgart - they were largely handmade. What do you think a 40 year old 996 will look like? It will look like whatever it was recycled into, most likely. That said, there is no question that the 996 and some 997s are a great performance bargain. Apples and oranges.
03-29-2017, 09:03 AM
#36
There's nothing in the world wrong with this, as a matter of fact, your approach is quite sane.
A 928 needs lots of care, they are 30 years old, and the owners in the past decades before us were by and large the ones who hopped in, turned the key, and enjoyed the part of the service life of this vehicle that was more care-free and amenable to somebody who doesn't really dig doing a lot of "car-work".
I just worry that you would be disappointed with your decision after the first major repair. Or the second. Good luck, I really do wish you the best in your decision.
Dan
03-29-2017, 09:33 AM
#37
Instructor
Thread Starter
Wow. Such great, thoughtful responses! 
Thanks, everyone for your input. I think one day, when my life isn't so nuts with 10 acres, 3 dogs, 2 kids (both under 10) and a wife take care of I'll get one. For now, I've decided to pass. My wife and I sat down last night and ticked off my requirements (she's the organizer) and it just doesn't really make sense to get the 928 right now. I would really love having it, but the nerves of worrying about it would be too much.
So for now, my 997 will have to pull double duty as a track toy/daily driver until some future point.
Thanks, everyone for your input. I think one day, when my life isn't so nuts with 10 acres, 3 dogs, 2 kids (both under 10) and a wife take care of I'll get one. For now, I've decided to pass. My wife and I sat down last night and ticked off my requirements (she's the organizer) and it just doesn't really make sense to get the 928 right now. I would really love having it, but the nerves of worrying about it would be too much. So for now, my 997 will have to pull double duty as a track toy/daily driver until some future point.
03-29-2017, 09:47 AM
#38
Pro
G'day Conan (is that your name or a pseudonym?)
I had a Guards Red/Pascha interior 928 as a picture on my bedroom wall as a youngster (around '78).
One year ago, I purchased a Guards Red '79 Pascha interior, my first 928 at the age of 50.
I have also owned many new, semi-new and fully dodgy, crap cars during this time.
Patience was my virtue and along came the Advertisement...
Very few to choose from here NZ.
It had to be either a '78 or '79, and have a traceable history.
It was...
THEN I drove it...
You will find your GT...just maybe not THAT ONE, if experienced guys have been unhappy with examination, then trust their judgement, I am sure you will.
Otherwise, buy the best you can afford with an interior you like, an exterior you like, and a cared for engine, there will be one out there somewhere.
It's not the end of the world if it does not work out is it...
I got my pin up...(twice...)
Kiwi
I had a Guards Red/Pascha interior 928 as a picture on my bedroom wall as a youngster (around '78).
One year ago, I purchased a Guards Red '79 Pascha interior, my first 928 at the age of 50.
I have also owned many new, semi-new and fully dodgy, crap cars during this time.
Patience was my virtue and along came the Advertisement...
Very few to choose from here NZ.
It had to be either a '78 or '79, and have a traceable history.
It was...
THEN I drove it...
You will find your GT...just maybe not THAT ONE, if experienced guys have been unhappy with examination, then trust their judgement, I am sure you will.
Otherwise, buy the best you can afford with an interior you like, an exterior you like, and a cared for engine, there will be one out there somewhere.
It's not the end of the world if it does not work out is it...
I got my pin up...(twice...)
Kiwi
Last edited by Kiwi'79; 03-29-2017 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Usual crap spelling
03-29-2017, 10:19 AM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Hey Conan, In case you still are looking, there are a bevy of very nice 928s out there, just not visibly for sale. They pop up here and there or now and then but there is not a steady stream of candidates all the time. keep your eye on this site's "for Sale" thread and what you are looking for will eventually show. BTW, if you don't want to wrench there are some excellent 928 PROS in the metro Detroit area and a great group in the Michigan 928 club. Noticed you are from "Mid Michigan" what area? I'm from Saginaw.
03-29-2017, 10:22 AM
#40
I would say any ~30 y/o car is going to offer problems and challenges...especially if everything is original.
That being said, as a new owner, my car has been a nightmare because everything is original. However, I knew getting into it that my car was going to need a lot of TLC and it hasn't disappointed, but I am enjoying bringing her back to life.
My advice, unless you have the money to buy an "up-to-date" car, have the mechanical know-how to fix what needs be done or have deep pockets to pay someone who can fix it...move on to a different platform.
That being said, as a new owner, my car has been a nightmare because everything is original. However, I knew getting into it that my car was going to need a lot of TLC and it hasn't disappointed, but I am enjoying bringing her back to life.
My advice, unless you have the money to buy an "up-to-date" car, have the mechanical know-how to fix what needs be done or have deep pockets to pay someone who can fix it...move on to a different platform.
03-29-2017, 10:43 AM
#41
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hey Conan, In case you still are looking, there are a bevy of very nice 928s out there, just not visibly for sale. They pop up here and there or now and then but there is not a steady stream of candidates all the time. keep your eye on this site's "for Sale" thread and what you are looking for will eventually show. BTW, if you don't want to wrench there are some excellent 928 PROS in the metro Detroit area and a great group in the Michigan 928 club. Noticed you are from "Mid Michigan" what area? I'm from Saginaw.
03-29-2017, 10:48 AM
#42
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Won't disagree with one word of what you said. Now, go back and read the OPs lament again. He wants to DRIVE and not constantly fix. This is where the apple(or the orange) comes in. The 996 is a drivers car. Fix the IMS if needed, but it can be driven every day, any weather, most any condition and no muss no fuss. The 928, not so much. It's more about what the OP wants, than what he can do. A lot of people on this forum will minimize the special mx that goes with the 928. Well, these are experienced and very knowledgeable folk on this car. Now imagine a guy buying a low miles, 30 year old, top of the line, maint deferred 928. Is HE going to be happy trying to make it a DD? What about the same price($16-19k) 1999 996? Buy it, drive it, take it to your local indy once in a while. Apples/oranges. 996 is still a ton of fun car.
Fact is the 996's are getting older every day, they depreciated at the rate of a Saturn and many are floating around in worse shape than your average 928. Just recently a 996 was sitting on a very shady used car lot in Green Bay along with a pair of Cayenne's. Are you honestly going to tell me those three cars are guaranteed to be in better mechanical and electrical shape than your average 928? I know the buyer and I know the answer.
996's are no different than 928's. Buy the best one you can afford and find someone who knows how to work on them. To suggest any shade tree shop can work on a 996 like a Ford F150 is downright ridiculous. I know enough 996 owners and shops who will not work on them to call complete BS on that statement.
The 996 is a great car, I've debated getting one as a 365 daily driver for years (only because of the AWD option). After combing through repair orders, talking to owners and shops that do work on them, I've decided I don't want a 928 caliber maintenance vehicle as a household daily driver. I've decided a Boxster with snow tires is the better route. Similar maintenance costs with a significantly lower cost of entry.
Back to newer Porsche's in general. Local club member is spending thousands getting the chains updated on their V6 Porsche SUV. Just out of warranty, not many miles on it.
This forum and community are full of people who regularly use their cars, not just for DD but for huge road trips. How many times has Jim and Sue crossed the country going to an event? How many times did Lucky drive from Florida to Devek days? The primary reason I own so many is because they have been so reliable.
On that note, I was recently reading a thread on metal impeller water pumps damaging blocks and plastic impeller pumps prematurely failing causing overheat issues. Funny how the more things change, the more they remain the same......
http://986forum.com/forums/performan...-impeller.html
How's that 997 cylinder scoring issue coming along?
03-29-2017, 11:00 AM
#43
All this 996 talk, I'm assuming, based off the price point the OP is talking about a non-turbo Gen 1 996. They can be great cars after you fix the IMS issue but also understand that the non-turbo 997's have the same issue.
03-29-2017, 11:47 AM
#44
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Give me a break, the 928's have been around longer and have had more time to be cobbled up. There is no cost cutting design flaw with a 928 engine like there was with the 996. The 996 was an accountants dream, built cheap and hugely profitable. The only advantage to the 996 is age, yea no kidding a newer car has less problems now.....
03-29-2017, 01:27 PM
#45
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
