Is There Value In Rebuilt Engines?
03-15-2017, 10:42 AM
#17
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Seems to me that if there was any need for spec rebuilding, Greg,Carl Mark Roger etc. would be doing it. To me seems like a lot of work,cash investment and headaches down the road to be worth the aggravation.
03-15-2017, 10:48 AM
#18
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Here is another thought...just take the motors apart and refirb the parts. For example, in theory you can lap the cylinder bores to recondition them, but finding someone who can and will do this properly is hard enough that almost nobody does. You could have a set of clean blocks with properly re-lapped bores all set and ready to ship. I think you would sell some of them. Likewise heads. If you had fully reconditioned heads that were nicely documented as far as exactly what was done to them and with lots of pics, I think you could likely get a good price for them exchange. Most of us can get them done locally, but it is a hassle, a risk, and takes time. Even valve covers and intake manifolds. Fully cleaned, prepped, powder coated, with full documentation as to the cleaning and other prep, they would sell. And its much easier the ship parts than whole motors.
So even with heads & intakes, I'd rather buy a good core and have the work done myself.
03-15-2017, 12:39 PM
#19
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Carl (928 Motorsports) already offers this service.
Supplying just the motor leaves a gap of who's going to put it in. If you're enough of a DIY guy to do the pull and replace then you may just want to do it all yourself.
Still, I could see someone jobbing it out. Maybe they have a shop do the install. Then again, the shop will claim to be able to rebuild the engine.
Supplying just the motor leaves a gap of who's going to put it in. If you're enough of a DIY guy to do the pull and replace then you may just want to do it all yourself.
Still, I could see someone jobbing it out. Maybe they have a shop do the install. Then again, the shop will claim to be able to rebuild the engine.
03-19-2017, 01:46 AM
#20
Just pulling a 32V engine apart took hours and hours and hours! Much longer than any other V8 I've ever done. I'm getting another engine from Roger when I bring the Alfa Romeo to DFW to my friend for painting asap. Still unsure if I'll pull that one down - I likely will to check and repair and service things.
03-19-2017, 11:42 AM
#21
I totally hear ya, that is why I am tempted to rebuild them instead of selling them as-is with all the unknowns of condition and such. Or at least pull the heads and inspect everything before listing it. I don't ever want to sell another engine with a random bolt floating around somewhere internally...
03-19-2017, 02:54 PM
#22
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First, the 928 engine with even modest maint over the past 30-40 years will last well over 300k miles. Even one that has been neglected somewhat should go well over 200k miles. These engines operate at about 15% duty cycle, and when made were done with pretty careful attention to detail. There are some engineering issues that cause premature failure(S4 TBF), but all-in-all the 928 engine is a distance runner, which makes rebuilding typically for catastrophic failures.
Next, the rebuild process is unlike most machinists bread and butter. It is not, and never will be a Chebby 350. To do it right requires knowledge of some pretty careful process. I found out with my rebuild of an engine. I'm sure it runs, but it's taken me several tries to solve the issues I had with outside vendors.
Finally, if you want to have a market for a 928 engine I would say that after the rebuild, you would put it in a chassis and put > 1500 miles on it while documenting the run-in. The bathtub curve of failure rates tells me that infant mortality has to be overcome. This adds hours to the process, and money in driving a car with a beta engine in it, then removal, crating, etc. Even if you warranty an engine, the cost of exchanging it in case of failure is too high for most to consider.
It's a money game, and right now the used engine with a compression test is more reliable than any rebuild.
Next, the rebuild process is unlike most machinists bread and butter. It is not, and never will be a Chebby 350. To do it right requires knowledge of some pretty careful process. I found out with my rebuild of an engine. I'm sure it runs, but it's taken me several tries to solve the issues I had with outside vendors.
Finally, if you want to have a market for a 928 engine I would say that after the rebuild, you would put it in a chassis and put > 1500 miles on it while documenting the run-in. The bathtub curve of failure rates tells me that infant mortality has to be overcome. This adds hours to the process, and money in driving a car with a beta engine in it, then removal, crating, etc. Even if you warranty an engine, the cost of exchanging it in case of failure is too high for most to consider.
It's a money game, and right now the used engine with a compression test is more reliable than any rebuild.
03-19-2017, 08:57 PM
#23
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First, the 928 engine with even modest maint over the past 30-40 years will last well over 300k miles. Even one that has been neglected somewhat should go well over 200k miles. These engines operate at about 15% duty cycle, and when made were done with pretty careful attention to detail. There are some engineering issues that cause premature failure(S4 TBF), but all-in-all the 928 engine is a distance runner, which makes rebuilding typically for catastrophic failures.
Next, the rebuild process is unlike most machinists bread and butter. It is not, and never will be a Chebby 350. To do it right requires knowledge of some pretty careful process. I found out with my rebuild of an engine. I'm sure it runs, but it's taken me several tries to solve the issues I had with outside vendors.
Finally, if you want to have a market for a 928 engine I would say that after the rebuild, you would put it in a chassis and put > 1500 miles on it while documenting the run-in. The bathtub curve of failure rates tells me that infant mortality has to be overcome. This adds hours to the process, and money in driving a car with a beta engine in it, then removal, crating, etc. Even if you warranty an engine, the cost of exchanging it in case of failure is too high for most to consider.
It's a money game, and right now the used engine with a compression test is more reliable than any rebuild.
Next, the rebuild process is unlike most machinists bread and butter. It is not, and never will be a Chebby 350. To do it right requires knowledge of some pretty careful process. I found out with my rebuild of an engine. I'm sure it runs, but it's taken me several tries to solve the issues I had with outside vendors.
Finally, if you want to have a market for a 928 engine I would say that after the rebuild, you would put it in a chassis and put > 1500 miles on it while documenting the run-in. The bathtub curve of failure rates tells me that infant mortality has to be overcome. This adds hours to the process, and money in driving a car with a beta engine in it, then removal, crating, etc. Even if you warranty an engine, the cost of exchanging it in case of failure is too high for most to consider.
It's a money game, and right now the used engine with a compression test is more reliable than any rebuild.
Tough to find an engine, these days, that I'd even bother trying to install, workout taking the heads off, minimum. It just takes too much effort to take them in and out of the vehicle, to take a chance....
And engines which were removed, were not drained of the coolant, and sat around are even worse!