Porsche Parts Availability- Why we are lucky
12-10-2016, 08:28 AM
#16
FWIW I am seriously annoyed by American brands and parts availability timelines. I have a rather new-ish fridge that needs one part and it is already discontinued (and the same part breaks for every owner so it is rare). I pretty much avoid anything General these days - GM, GE...
I also want to applause Mercedes for parts availability. I drove a W115 way into the 1990s and all I had to do is walk into a dealer, say what I want and walk out with it. That was in Germany, though.
I also want to applause Mercedes for parts availability. I drove a W115 way into the 1990s and all I had to do is walk into a dealer, say what I want and walk out with it. That was in Germany, though.
12-10-2016, 08:33 AM
#17
Just as there is an emphasis on collecting/restoring 1960s cars, in the future there will be an emphasis on cars without encrypted linked-to-the-mothership systems. Recyclers will be hiring hackers for lesser challenges. A few sentences in a consumer protection law would be nice on this subject: "manufacturers shall enable third parties to perform computer-linked maintenance support upon terminating support".
I think long term we will see good availability of Rasberry Pi like computers that have open source software to play ECU, TCU etc for popular cars. Whether that is done in a safe and reliable manner depends largely on whether the U.S. allows its own population to participate.
One "hacker" isn't enough. The people who find a security problem are different than the people that can use it to write an exploit. Only after those two are finished can you start doing useful work on changing the software. Something neither of those two have a clue about. That is 3 lines of people that cannot work in parallel, so the timeline is stretched.
My personal concern for future re-use of attractive cars of today is high-pressure pumps of all sorts. Those will be a problem. The materials need to be too strong to hope that we can 3D print them anytime soon.
12-10-2016, 08:58 AM
#18
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In regards to tech availability and serviceability in the future......
What seems high tech today is tomorrow's primitive. So much 80s and 90s tech that was thought to be the end of DIY repairs is commonplace now. I have faith in the enthusiasts to reverse engineer tech in the future. Yes, in the interim, we all suffer at the hands of the manufacturer but these cars will not go extinct due to a lack of third party support IMHO.
What seems high tech today is tomorrow's primitive. So much 80s and 90s tech that was thought to be the end of DIY repairs is commonplace now. I have faith in the enthusiasts to reverse engineer tech in the future. Yes, in the interim, we all suffer at the hands of the manufacturer but these cars will not go extinct due to a lack of third party support IMHO.
12-10-2016, 09:35 AM
#19
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DMCA is the Devil's work. But, as long as there's a will (and some dollars) there's a way.
I'm sure I'll be able to drive my 928 until I'm physically or legally unable. Not so sure about the 991, but not super-worried. More of them out there, bigger market, etc.
I'm sure I'll be able to drive my 928 until I'm physically or legally unable. Not so sure about the 991, but not super-worried. More of them out there, bigger market, etc.
12-10-2016, 10:47 AM
#20
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I just spent a week in a Ferrari shop. 928 parts are cheap and plentiful.
12-10-2016, 03:46 PM
#21
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12-11-2016, 02:34 AM
#23
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Yes there are computers that will do 95% of what a factory diagnostic equipment will do, they are far from cheap and not a sure fire road to a solution or repair. Even the dealership struggle with talking to cars on a regular basis. My local Indy shop has worked on cars still under warranty where the owners have given up and wanted to try someone else to diagnose an intermittent issue. Sure with a factory computer you can scan the system and get the codes and see where the general issue is. For many mechanics dedicated to "keep up" with technology this information is then followed up with hours on the phone talking to an expert on these systems trying to de-code what the computer is saying.
I simply do not see how this will translate down to the consumer level.
You cannot do simple work like changing brake pads or replacing a window switch without having a factory caliber computer to reset and code the computers.
Here is a common example with BMW's. ABS light comes on, plug in the computer it says sensor #1 is bad. You replace that sensor, light still on, now it says sensor #2......keep going until you replace all four sensors only to have the diagnostic computer tell you the ABS brain is malfunctioning so you replace that for $1,500.....guess what, light is still on. How about that, the primary ECU is actually the culprit after-all giving out false codes!!!
On top of all this you need the factory computer to install each sensor and ECU so it can be coded to the serial number of that car. This isn't "new" either. First time I came across this was a BMW that was an earl 00's car.
12-11-2016, 03:47 AM
#24
As for material strength, check out Markforged.com. 3D parts built with continuous carbon fiber. I saw some of the parts from this printer at a convention last month. Incredibly light and stiff.
3D printed DC motors and embedded circuitry are in their infancy today and will be common place production options before any of the cars of today become classics or run into NLA issues.
I think the bigger threat to this collector car hobby of ours is lack of interest in future generations and autonomous transportation. No demand = no supply.
12-11-2016, 07:36 AM
#25
I see such comments on various forums all the time and the reality is, so far it doesn't look to be true - at least on the consumer level. This all started to take a turn for the worse in 1996 with the introduction of ODBII.
Yes there are computers that will do 95% of what a factory diagnostic equipment will do, they are far from cheap and not a sure fire road to a solution or repair. Even the dealership struggle with talking to cars on a regular basis. My local Indy shop has worked on cars still under warranty where the owners have given up and wanted to try someone else to diagnose an intermittent issue. Sure with a factory computer you can scan the system and get the codes and see where the general issue is. For many mechanics dedicated to "keep up" with technology this information is then followed up with hours on the phone talking to an expert on these systems trying to de-code what the computer is saying.
I simply do not see how this will translate down to the consumer level.
You cannot do simple work like changing brake pads or replacing a window switch without having a factory caliber computer to reset and code the computers.
Here is a common example with BMW's. ABS light comes on, plug in the computer it says sensor #1 is bad. You replace that sensor, light still on, now it says sensor #2......keep going until you replace all four sensors only to have the diagnostic computer tell you the ABS brain is malfunctioning so you replace that for $1,500.....guess what, light is still on. How about that, the primary ECU is actually the culprit after-all giving out false codes!!!
On top of all this you need the factory computer to install each sensor and ECU so it can be coded to the serial number of that car. This isn't "new" either. First time I came across this was a BMW that was an earl 00's car.
Yes there are computers that will do 95% of what a factory diagnostic equipment will do, they are far from cheap and not a sure fire road to a solution or repair. Even the dealership struggle with talking to cars on a regular basis. My local Indy shop has worked on cars still under warranty where the owners have given up and wanted to try someone else to diagnose an intermittent issue. Sure with a factory computer you can scan the system and get the codes and see where the general issue is. For many mechanics dedicated to "keep up" with technology this information is then followed up with hours on the phone talking to an expert on these systems trying to de-code what the computer is saying.
I simply do not see how this will translate down to the consumer level.
You cannot do simple work like changing brake pads or replacing a window switch without having a factory caliber computer to reset and code the computers.
Here is a common example with BMW's. ABS light comes on, plug in the computer it says sensor #1 is bad. You replace that sensor, light still on, now it says sensor #2......keep going until you replace all four sensors only to have the diagnostic computer tell you the ABS brain is malfunctioning so you replace that for $1,500.....guess what, light is still on. How about that, the primary ECU is actually the culprit after-all giving out false codes!!!
On top of all this you need the factory computer to install each sensor and ECU so it can be coded to the serial number of that car. This isn't "new" either. First time I came across this was a BMW that was an earl 00's car.
The computers used in these cars are also not really robust. With the little documentation I get it seems that even concepts like ECC memory are lost on them. So the computer has very little ability to diagnose itself, and that leads to situations like yours. It is also a joke to ask $1000+ for such a computer, which is a $0.50 system-on-a-chip in a $20 case. If you could take an off-the-shelf computer, put on the BMW software and put it into the car you could make an ECU check the first thing.
I wonder how Massachusett's right-to-repair law will play into this.
Plenty of people are having success 3D printing pressure vessels already.
As for material strength, check out Markforged.com. 3D parts built with continuous carbon fiber. I saw some of the parts from this printer at a convention last month. Incredibly light and stiff.
3D printed DC motors and embedded circuitry are in their infancy today and will be common place production options before any of the cars of today become classics or run into NLA issues.
I think the bigger threat to this collector car hobby of ours is lack of interest in future generations and autonomous transportation. No demand = no supply.
As for material strength, check out Markforged.com. 3D parts built with continuous carbon fiber. I saw some of the parts from this printer at a convention last month. Incredibly light and stiff.
3D printed DC motors and embedded circuitry are in their infancy today and will be common place production options before any of the cars of today become classics or run into NLA issues.
I think the bigger threat to this collector car hobby of ours is lack of interest in future generations and autonomous transportation. No demand = no supply.
12-11-2016, 11:58 AM
#26
I think Satan himself did a lot of the design on the BMW's. Had an X5 in a few times for a transmission fault. Did the usual diagnostics (I've got a couple of BMW/Mini/Rolls test computers) and they all pointed to certain sensors on the trans or associated bits. Finally, after searching for a bit, I found one guy on some forum non BMW related that had the same issue, did the same **** I did and it ended up being a fault in the alternator. Replaced the alt on my own dime to see if that cured it. Yep. Alternator causing transmission faults to occur.
I see such comments on various forums all the time and the reality is, so far it doesn't look to be true - at least on the consumer level. This all started to take a turn for the worse in 1996 with the introduction of ODBII.
Yes there are computers that will do 95% of what a factory diagnostic equipment will do, they are far from cheap and not a sure fire road to a solution or repair. Even the dealership struggle with talking to cars on a regular basis. My local Indy shop has worked on cars still under warranty where the owners have given up and wanted to try someone else to diagnose an intermittent issue. Sure with a factory computer you can scan the system and get the codes and see where the general issue is. For many mechanics dedicated to "keep up" with technology this information is then followed up with hours on the phone talking to an expert on these systems trying to de-code what the computer is saying.
I simply do not see how this will translate down to the consumer level.
You cannot do simple work like changing brake pads or replacing a window switch without having a factory caliber computer to reset and code the computers.
Here is a common example with BMW's. ABS light comes on, plug in the computer it says sensor #1 is bad. You replace that sensor, light still on, now it says sensor #2......keep going until you replace all four sensors only to have the diagnostic computer tell you the ABS brain is malfunctioning so you replace that for $1,500.....guess what, light is still on. How about that, the primary ECU is actually the culprit after-all giving out false codes!!!
On top of all this you need the factory computer to install each sensor and ECU so it can be coded to the serial number of that car. This isn't "new" either. First time I came across this was a BMW that was an earl 00's car.
Yes there are computers that will do 95% of what a factory diagnostic equipment will do, they are far from cheap and not a sure fire road to a solution or repair. Even the dealership struggle with talking to cars on a regular basis. My local Indy shop has worked on cars still under warranty where the owners have given up and wanted to try someone else to diagnose an intermittent issue. Sure with a factory computer you can scan the system and get the codes and see where the general issue is. For many mechanics dedicated to "keep up" with technology this information is then followed up with hours on the phone talking to an expert on these systems trying to de-code what the computer is saying.
I simply do not see how this will translate down to the consumer level.
You cannot do simple work like changing brake pads or replacing a window switch without having a factory caliber computer to reset and code the computers.
Here is a common example with BMW's. ABS light comes on, plug in the computer it says sensor #1 is bad. You replace that sensor, light still on, now it says sensor #2......keep going until you replace all four sensors only to have the diagnostic computer tell you the ABS brain is malfunctioning so you replace that for $1,500.....guess what, light is still on. How about that, the primary ECU is actually the culprit after-all giving out false codes!!!
On top of all this you need the factory computer to install each sensor and ECU so it can be coded to the serial number of that car. This isn't "new" either. First time I came across this was a BMW that was an earl 00's car.