worf928

In the Audi world, lots of folks bypass airbag warnings by pulling the connection to the 'offending' airbag and shorting the connection with a carefully-calculated parallel resistor network. Figuring out the resistance is the trick for which I will offer no recommendations. The Airbag computer determines if everything is hooked-up via resistance to each component (including the warning light in the cluster.)

On the flip-side, with the current Takata airbag saga one has to wonder if 25-year old airbags in our 90+ 928s are a good thing or a bad thing. Does anyone know if the charge was composed of ammonium nitrate in powder form?

A number of folks on this forum have replaced their airbag wheels with newer Porsche wheels with the smaller - presumably less-forceful charged - airbags. No engineering there. Do they work?

A delicate subject, this.

jcorenman

As far as I can determine, ammonium nitrate as a propellant was a Takata "innovation" and unique to that company. In pellet form, as originally designed, it worked as intended. With time, temperature and moisture the pellets became unstable powder and the pressure increase was explosive, creating shrapnel out of the housing parts.

I don't believe that Porsche ever used Takata airbags, nor ammonium nitrate as a propellant. There are many other choices which are stable.

I don't know of any stated lifetime for early airbags. I think the biggest risk is that they (a) may not work, which is no different than disabling them (without the liability issue), or (b) may work as intended but are potentially more forceful than more recent designs. That last bit is pure speculation... I don't know of any published design specs.

More reading:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/featur...air-bag-crisis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

docmirror

Well, another satisfied poster. So, if someone(me) or the OP(Sean) takes money for their mechanical expertise, then they are, or are not liable? It's hard to make out from your broken double-negative statement. Lawyer-talk I know. BTW, Sean receives more than 90% of his annual income as a mechanic. Last time I checked, that's pretty much the exact definition of 'professional'.

Now, if you'd like some aviation case law, I can provide plenty of that. Plenty. Is it directly relevant to this case? Who knows? I'm not a litigator, but I've been an expert witness in a couple of cases where the judgements went to 7 figures. Will that happen to Sean? Unlikely, but then again - as noted, the customer in this case seems well to do.

So, after having apologized, it seems that just isn't enough for the pro argument aficionados. I guess, I'll go down to your office and open a vein. Maybe that'll mollify you.

Try to help a friend and now I've got TWO knives in the back. Well ****ing done.

docmirror

Hehe, weird. as I used to work on the development of the first gen airbags(including the 928), I actually know the answer to both of these questions.

Rob Edwards

Not sure what the propellant in the Porsche airbags is, but since the ammonium nitrate propellants were a 'new' thing in 1995, and Porsche's description in the airbag service info book talks about nitrogen gas being produced, I'd speculate the propellant is sodium azide. Which might help explain why the residue from a popped Porsche airbag is a 'totalling' occurrence.

FLYVMO

Please enlighten us

Cheers!
Carl

GT6ixer

I don't know Doc, this one seemed pretty easy for me to follow. Your post stated, "...if someone called me..", and assuming you meant you when you wrote "me" and not Sean and assuming "you are not a professional mechanic" then what Ed was saying (I believe) is that the advice given by a non-professional mechanic, i.e. you, would not be enough to win a lawsuit.

FWIW I agree with you and Greg, and if I were Sean I'd politely decline this one.

SeanR

Geezus Christ some of you are thick.

This customer has his own performance shop.

I did his wheel bearing because he lacks the proper tool, he paid for that service so he qualifies as a customer. Me giving him advice on some aspect of the car does not make me own it.

His airbag control unit is faulty, one sensor is faulty.

He asked how he can bypass the broken fvcking system to get rid of the warning.

I don't know so I asked here.

Yes Doc, my pattern is always full because I schedule work out a long ways. Currently my next available opening is in December close to Christmas so if you call next week asking if you can drop off the GT, the answer is still going to be no.

docmirror

Yes, I see where you are coming from. However, if you had continued your quotation, you would have noted that I mentioned a 'bill' indicating that I were(or in the parlance) that Sean was and is a professional mechanic. And that advice, even unpaid advice from a pro creates an agency relationship where one is acting in the capacity as an agent. Agency relationships form when one person is more skilled than another in a relationship. The agent is responsible for acting in the best interest of the principal. It has also been established in case law that no money change hands, and responsibility still attaches(even in law, an indigent client is due diligent representation before the bar of justice, notwithstanding their ability to pay the liar - oops I mean 'lawyer').

Again, I apologized for trying to help, but still the hounds are baying, baying baying....

Imo000

I would have told the client "I don't know and I don't want to know". It's a pretty basic liability issue even if you are not trained in the litigation profession. Actually it's common sense if you really thing about it.

linderpat

Doc you are indeed a shameful thread killer

docmirror

Nicely deflected counselor. You should run for office.

linderpat

Dear jaysus, with the choices we have on the table, Doc I'd vote for you in a heartbeat

SeanR

No ****, In my initial post I said

and what's the very first post? Doc being Doc and the thread goes downhill. Thanks buddy.

docmirror

Well, I think if you would please review my unedited first comment on the subject, it was exactly the opposite of what you posted. I said specifically not to get involved and send him somewhere else. But - I get your point about not liking my post advice. The 'ignore' function works on your computer, I know because I've borrowed your computer before, and ordered beer and pie from it. As always, if you think I've overstepped the bounds of etiquette you can work with the mods and see about having me banned. Not sure for what, but you can try.

Personally, I think the decline in the thread was more from your post 3 nastygram in reply. Strangely, Greg agreed with me(Sorry Greg, it won't happen again) on the facts in evidence.

Can I apologize again? Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Been trying to get out of this thread for days now, but y'all just - won't - let - it - goooooooooo.