Imo000

Alright, alright......enough of the preaching. If these cars were worth more than an custom set of rims, the owner demographics would be like the 911 aircooled crowd. Since it's not, spending retarded amount of money on a car that isn't worth much doesn't make sense to most. Therefore, many will replace the worn parts with something that's less costly. It's just an fricking car after all.

polecat702

Greg,
It wasn't the price of the pump that made me choose Ed's Guardian pump. It's the way he's engineered the coupler. Just another level of insurance, for protecting the interference engine.

When I pull my tranny, It'll be coming to you for the rebuild. Unless this one gets totaled like my 87, I'll keep it till I'm no longer able to drive, or dead, which ever comes first.

GregBBRD

And I'm completely fine with that, as it generally affects me in no way.

My point is still the same, however.

There's a difference in quality from cheap to expensive.

I find that this is true not only with parts, but also in labor.

GregBBRD

I initially loved the idea that Ed came up with. It seemed like a great solution.

I tried his solution in the very beginning and had an very rapid failure of the rubber coupler. In reading what he has said, I believe that Ed figured out that the failure was caused by the bearing being "too tight" and because of this, now "breaks in" each and every pump, before shipping them.

However, this cost me, personally, a bunch of time to redo the job (time is money to me) and because I returned the pump for him to analyse (and never got it back), I also "ate" the cost of the pump.

Certainly, not the best experience I've ever had.

Since my failure rate with factory pumps is zero....I just never went back and tried his approach, again.

All that being said, if suddenly the factory quit supplying pumps, he'd be the first one I'd call.

oups59

I also believe that there is a difference in quality from cheap to expensive.

However it is difficult to evaluate quality, at least it is for me, since I never add a WP failure (except for a leaking rebuild pump in 2011).

I change the WP every 5 years. It will be my fourth this winter. I have a Laso in the car with 30,000 miles on it.

This year, I can buy from three manufacturers.

Geba = 265$ CDN (195$ USD) New
Laso = 475$ CDN (355$ USD) New
Porsche = around 1100$ CDN (825$ USD) New - Need to validate Monday.

I know that Geba is relatively new to the 928.
Laso will no longer be available but our group seems to like them.
I don't expect any issues with the Porsche pump.

Does it make sense to go with the Porsche pump? Maybe if it can last twice as long - changing the pump every 2 timing belts.

And from Greg's comments, it looks faisable.

Captain_Slow

Whenever I read a thread like this, the kind where numerous posts differ, yet all seem reasonable and convincing, it leads to a kind of decision-making paralysis. I can't afford expensive OEM water pumps or motor mounts (guess I should sell the car...I can't afford it). The car isn't worth more than a 3 year old Camry (though this situation is improving) so why not put a reasonably priced name-brand or Guardian pump in it? (Guess I can keep the car).

So I look at what one particularly nice French Canadian owner on this forum has done cosmetically and mechanically with his S4 as a model. He's passionate about his 928. His car is immaculate. He's extremely careful with his car. He doesn't take chances and wouldn't expose his car to unreasonable risks - and any aftermarket parts he's put on his car are designed to reduce risks. He has both the PKTensioner and the Guardian pump on his S4. He drives it from Canada to Frenzy every year. The car is amazing....a direct reflection of the owner.

I may have to sell my car in a year or two, but I'm trying to avoid it. The only way I can avoid selling it is to occasionally use quality alternative parts vetted by our vendors and this owner community. Does this mean I'll use a Chinese knock-off water pump off of eBay? NO. That's too big a gamble on the 32V cars.

polecat702

Jon, don't sell you're car. They really aren't that expensive to maintain. Hell, I've got to put a trans in mine, and that's a major expense to have Doc Brown, build one that'll be built proof. But to me it's worth it.

Dee and I have had so much fun with owning our two, 928's, and the people of this community are even better, that selling will never be an option. Mine will be going to our son Bo, or if he's mature enough, our grandson.

I really think, that in the next few years the 928 will be the classic Porsche to own.

ROG100

Not correct - the Laso 87 to 95 later pump is no longer available in the States.
The early 77 to 86 Laso pump is readily available. I sell hundreds of them.
Using a PKT allows you to use the early pump on any car 77 to 95.

I sent a case of WP's to ED to have converted but they were damaged while shipping - cost me a lot of money and no fault of Ed or 928sRus. Then I heard about the failures so stopped selling them. In the mean time I believe Ed has resolved the issue.

No offence to Ed at all but I also have never seen an engine failure that has resulted from a seized WP and the "need" to have the rubber clutch. The only benefit to ME is the fact that Ed takes a WP and replaces the seal cartridge with a new and better version. That is probably what I need from Ed and need to talk to him about it. Never had the reason as yet because of the readily available Laso pump.

I agree with GB as well but in the real World most customers do not want to pay $1000 for a Porsche pump. They buy the next best WP which is the Laso with an extremely low - less than 0.5% failure rate. As a rough number we sell 500/600 Laso WP's v 1 Porsche pump. That is what the market demands rightly or wrongly - just fact.

There was a time when you changed the WP every time you changed the TB - not any more if you use a good WP.

Also remember that Porsche and Laso changed to a plastic impeller for a very good reason. So to me the use of a metal impeller is a big retrograde step. For the 87 to 95 cars that still use the existing de-tensioner choices are very very limited. Porsche or GEBA. Down side is the GEBA has a metal impeller. That tells me the GEBA company did not do a very good marketing survey before they started making the new pumps about 2 years ago!!!! GEBA - jury is still out but so far so good.

Landseer

Thanks for continuing to stay on top of this, Roger.

I'll need at least one Laso this spring. Wife's 86 car has had metal Laso and Continental belt since May 2008, about 40,000 miles.

oups59

Thanks Roger. I believed that all Laso were NLA.

Captain_Slow

Polecat-
Thanks for validating what my experience so far has been (but is regularly challenged by posts stating much higher ownership costs). My S4 has been very reliable (aside from the 8 year old battery that died during the Frenzy Fun Run this year....but I consider that was my fault for not checking it more thoroughly).

I also am considering sending my trans to GB for rebuilding (and definitely keeping the car if I do). It operates perfectly, but it has a slow leak from the torque converter seal and from the pan due to someone over tightening the pan in the past. Nothing horrible, but I want all the old hardened rubber bits to be replaced.

$1000 Porsche water pump just sends chills through me

Speedtoys

"That tells me the GEBA company did not do a very good marketing survey before they started making the new pumps about 2 years ago!!!! GEBA - jury is still out but so far so good. "

Perhaps they DID do a good job, and Identified the root issue.

They have sold perhaps billions of metal impeller water pumps over the years, right?

Jfrahm

One nice thing about a metal impeller IMO is that you can tack weld it to the shaft, likewise the pulley. This trashes the core, but meh. I've had an original Porsche waterpump impeller spin on a 944S2 and I much prefer the failure mode of a worn-out seal and a coolant drip.

-Joel.

Go Go Joe

Any opinions on the GMB water pumps? Model GMB 180-2150. They are supposedly brand new with a metal impeller. Anyone ever try one?

sugarwood

Does a 928 water pump differ in some profound way from a Honda water pump? Just some bearings and a impeller, right? Doesn't seem like a complicated part. People install $60 water pumps in their commuter cars by the million.
I'd be more focused on the brand and their aftermarket reputation.