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Brian! That's hilarious. Make sure you don't become one of "those stories" in medicine we all talk about and pass through the generations....
"Once there was a guy who came in with GSW through his **** because....."
Anyway, best of luck and don't stop for anybody inside Detroit! Not for red lights, not for a dog, not for a ball rolling down rowhouse block, not for grandma......
Having grown up in Kensington/Allegheny (Philly area Rennlisters would know what I am talking about) and survived, let me know if you need any pointers in surviving the drive!
Happy New Year and let us know how those seats turn out.
-Hoi
I'm curious about the level of interior restoration you believe should be done? From a collectors point of view, everyone would like an original perfectly supple interior. For a couple thousand dollars the total interior can now be replaced at a very high level. For a "true collector" car this may be appropriate so everything matches. For an "original build car" like these old 928 cars, do you keep some original panels that are in fair to good condition and replace the totally worn out pieces? Or do you replace as much as you can afford? What would a vintage car buyer want to see?
Make sure you don't become one of "those stories"...
Hoi,
Had a pretty uneventful trip, only went through a couple magazines...lol.
No, things went well and it was funny though. Exited the freeway we came to the first red stop light...so I stopped...the truck beside me, slowed and rolled right through the light and the next red one and the next.
Happy New Year and let us know how those seats turn out.
-Hoi
After taking a tour of Rob's place and seeing other projects...I'm very confident they will be awesome. Granted, I thought he would do them while we waited...lol.
I'm curious about the level of interior restoration you believe should be done? From a collectors point of view, everyone would like an original perfectly supple interior. For a couple thousand dollars the total interior can now be replaced at a very high level. For a "true collector" car this may be appropriate so everything matches. For an "original build car" like these old 928 cars, do you keep some original panels that are in fair to good condition and replace the totally worn out pieces? Or do you replace as much as you can afford? What would a vintage car buyer want to see?
The materials that Rob is using came from Germany, and are as close to the original materials that can be found. I'm going with the same black vinyl and pin-stripped black and white inserts. Putting the original style insert material back on is much more expensive, than just putting complete vinyl, but it makes the car "right" in my mind. The black portion of the original insert material had changed to a green shade and the white was discolored...plus there were rips in the material.
I would rank the rest of this car's interior; dash, console, pod and door panels a 9 out of 10, if not a 10 out of 10 once some small regluing is done to one of the door panels. So, making the seats and door cards match only made sense to me. Even given the mileage, this car is really, really clean. Even I'm surprised when I dig into something on her, she's just been well taken care of by someone. Now, this continued level of stewardship has become a personal quest to have this car very nice, when all is said and done.
I guess the best way I can explain it...this is a restoration...not a preservation.
...I guess the best way I can explain it...this is a restoration...not a preservation.
WRT to your interior, you're in preservation territory.
Reupholstering the seats is a minority effort compared to the dash, rear quarters, carpet, etc.
Point is, your interior is >75% original, which to me (and PCA) is preservation.
Generally, a well-kept early 928 w/cloth seats will need upholstery. The cloth dry rots. Still, it's a well-preserved example.
You could choose carpet or seats, but not both.
Re the whole car, if you repaint... you've entered restoration territory. Repairing existing paint (esp single-stage colors) keeps you in preservation. Also, following a similar 75% original guidline.
Long story long, make sure you know what direction you plan to go before going too deep.
Glad you made it back safe from super scary D-town. Happy New Year!
Last edited by Jadz928; 01-01-2016 at 01:27 AM.
Reason: spelling
Brian, I have been agonizing over the interior generally for the reasons that Jim has already mentioned. Even though we are solidly in restoration territory, I personally prefer to save as much as possible just because. The front seats both have torn vinyl along the fabric seam, so to preserve the vinyl bolster would require shrinking the bolster changing the look of the seats fundamentally. Lastly, the piping on the driver's side is irretrievable. Ironically, the pinstriped fabric inserts are sound.
Rears are the opposite, vinyl in great shape yet several spots of dry rot in the fabric inserts. Brother!
WRT to your interior, you're in preservation territory.
Reupholstering the seats is a minority effort compared to the dash, rear quarters, carpet, etc.
Point is, your interior is >75% original, which to me (and PCA) is preservation.
Generally, a well-kept early 928 w/cloth seats will need upholstery. The cloth dry rots. Still, it's a well-preserved example.
You could choose carpet or seats, but not both.
Re the whole car, if you repaint... you've entered restoration territory. Repairing existing paint (esp single-stage colors) keeps you in preservation. Also, following a similar 75% original guidline.
Long story long, make sure you know what direction you plan to go before going too deep.
Glad you made it back safe from super scary D-town. Happy New Year!
Thank you, Jim...for the clarification.
And in typical fashion...I start doing something before I actually know what I'm doing. Now, I need to change the title of this topic, too...lol.
But, I'm still a little confused. Would buying parts from another 78, ones that are missing from mine, still fall into the preservationist category? Since, I have the typical missing stuff, radio, battery box cover, original phone dials and exhaust system from the cat back. Everything else seems to be original, paint and everything mechanical.
Another question...the PO gave me a set of H-4 headlights "that he said" were the original bulbs. He had changed them to H-5 style, euro type. I didn't like the looks of the H-5's and changed them, but just put regular head light bulbs in there for now...and keep the "supposed" originals in the basement (along with the original intake tubes, alternator cooling tube and a few other odds and ends that I feel would last longer not being on the car). So, my question is...would this car have came with H-4's?
Thank you, again for your helpful insights.
Brian.
Last edited by The Deputy; 01-01-2016 at 04:39 PM.
Reason: wrong terms describing H-4's and 5's.
Decided since the seats were out and the door panels need attention...I'd remove them. Plus, after removing the 84's without incident...I was getting pretty cocky with my disassembly skills...or I wanted to do it to the red car before I forgot how they come off...lol.
Looks like someone way-back-when wanted to make sure this door panel got on this USA car.
Drew up a wiring diagram of the electric mirror control switch, before removal.
Then removed the switch and saw this...oh well...better safe than sorry.
Date code of door panel.
Strange little aluminum bracket on the panel, that does not appear on my 84.
It is pop-riveted in place.
Brought everything inside the house to be re-glued in areas.
Now that the easy stuff was done, the lower portion of the door panels...I went after the upper door panel piece that runs along the top of the glass.
This piece made me a bit nervous, to say the least. I'd removed one off of #613, just to see how they came off and the clips that held them on were quite supercali-fragilistic-expialidocious fragile. So, before I dug into old red...I again went to the donor door and sharpen up my memory some. Started taking off the donor piece, promptly breaking the second clip from the molding piece..."see, told you l'd need a refresher course". Once it was off, l measured the clip distances from one-another and transferred those measurements to old red.
She's off without a hitch...whoo hooo! You can see how the vinyl had bunched up along the leading edge. The vinyl is still quite pliable, so re-gluing will be a cinch.
Date code.
To the basement for gluing. The passenger side was in good shape...so, I only had to sweat-bullets once.
Thank you (!) for the door mirror wiring diagram- we were a little energetic in our door disassembly and got to this point before I remembered this was different from my S4+ experience with mirror switches:
America, F*** Yeah! Will be gluing almost all the edges of the interior vinyl back down, it's all giving up the ghost here.
Brian, I have been agonizing over the interior generally for the reasons that Jim has already mentioned. Even though we are solidly in restoration territory, I personally prefer to save as much as possible just because. The front seats both have torn vinyl along the fabric seam, so to preserve the vinyl bolster would require shrinking the bolster changing the look of the seats fundamentally. Lastly, the piping on the driver's side is irretrievable. Ironically, the pinstriped fabric inserts are sound.
Rears are the opposite, vinyl in great shape yet several spots of dry rot in the fabric inserts. Brother!
So looks like full redo of the seats.
Yes, William...it is a slippery slope.
I was of the same opinion, before talking with Rob Budd. Save as much original vinyl as possible, since the majority of vinyl was in great shape (besides a couple tears like you mentioned). All of the inner material was discolored and needed replaced...had turned greenish color from UV damage over the years. But, once he explained the process...and it being realistically in the same price range as a total redo...it changed my mind. Plus, he also asked..."why would you want to go through all of this and then still have some thirty year old material in the mix, that could fail easily?"...(or something to that affect anyway...not a word for word quote...since according to my wife I'm not a very good listener).
Anyhow, I vote for new seat covering...it would only seem fitting for everything else you two have done.
And, you asked about the head lights way back when...and I believe the car came with H-4's. This is what the PO handed me in a box and said were the originals. I still have them in a box in the basement for safe keeping.
Removed the belly pan and air filter housing, cleaned them and stuck them in the back of the car. Drained anti-freeze, since I couldn't remember what the previous owner had done here...totally clean and green...oh well, it will get new stuff anyway.
Not exactly sure if I'm going in the right direction here. Plans were to restore this car once I was retired, but I find myself picturing the engine out of it this weekend. Then, the next day I picture the new seats installed, hand polishing the exterior and making a few mechanical repairs...and driving it to Sharks in Hell this summer.
So, do I continue to slowly disassemble the car...or keep it close enough to reassemble for one summers worth of driving?
In my experience... Keeping tasks manageable is critical, so you can pick a task, see the finish line from the starting line, and actually finish those things before you start more things. If more than a few tasks are in progress, you can lose sight of that finish line. Any delay in any sigle task will delay/derail the other open tasks. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time, chew and swallow before the next bite so you don't choke.
Lots of cars end up as almost-forgotten garage art (or worse) when some tiny problem stalls the major effort. Dust gathers, cooling systems corrode, and the good gas that was in the tank goes bad. Now instead of getting around to swapping in a new [pick something easy], you now have a pile of consequential issues to manage well beyond the [pick something easy] you intended.
Or, do a Rob-and-William by taking the whole car apart for everything. You need a good plan and workable schedule regardless.
I will add that a schedule/plan really help when, not if, you hit a snag. Rob and I discuss schedule and strategy all the time, it really helps regardless of the size of the job.
Brian, it sure seems your car doesn't require the all out assault that Minerva and so many other early cars need. I vote you go with option 2 and drive the car this summer!
12-31-2015, 10:38 AM
