Mark R.

So wait, Michael, does that mean you are out the cost of the new headlight bulbs..?

slider172

I was until I glued the package back and returned it.

slider172

Now he's threatening me.

White Lightnin'

So everyone is on the same page, here is the link to the other thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-for-sale.html

And your last post there:

And my reponse (no dog in the hunt):

Interior color is Linen -which looks tan with age. You'd know that it was Linen (not white) if you looked at the option sticker. Also, any 928 that has been sitting in storage has issues running and idling... and you'd know that too if you had read the FAQ thread about ownership -or any other 'ownership issues' threads here on RL.

You also stated you drove about 3 hours (to meet halfway) and the odometer was off... whether it broke the day it was stored or the day he met you -the 400 extra miles listed in the current ad sounds correct -for a 27 year old car, what's the issue?

It just sounds like you are a black and white person that doesn't recognize gray. And, you should do a proper comparison by checking out an '88 911 vs. an '88 928 with same mileage and then judge which is selling at less than $10k vs. the amount of money to make it great.

I was luckier than most having 5+ pages of description of the good, bad & the ugly on my $5k '88 S4. After dropping another $15-20k to get it the way I want it -it's a great daily driver. Once in a while, age issues creep up and something has to be repaired.

But what 27-year old car doesn't have those issues... an Aston? a Rolls? a Ferrari? a 911? I think not.

Best of luck finding your 4-wheeled unicorn.

JHowell37

I think his problem with the car is that a price was agreed to based on the advertisement. But when the car appeared in person, its condition was worse than the ad indicated. And to make matters worse, the seller didn't seem to have any interest in coming off his asking price.

As for the idling problem, it may be true that 928s that spend a lot of time in storage will develop idle problems. But I would expect a seller to disclose that information.

White Lightnin'

True, the seller should be as descriptive and upfront as possible -but the buyer also has to own up to some responsibility... in this case, he admits he should have arranged a PPI. Not sure if any questions were ever asked prior to the sale either. To leave negative feedback without performing due diligence prior to purchase just screams "buyer's remorse temper tantrum".

He would probably have screamed FOUL! if there was a missing valve stem cap.

Winning an eBay auction is a 2-way contract. If the buyer is satisfied with the photos and description BUT fails to obtain a PPI or ask pertinent questions or for more photos -then he agrees to the price he has bid. HE DOES NOT OFFER LESS AFTER THE FACT. That is a reverse bait -n- switch.

slider172

This was by no means a reverse bait and switch. The seller grossly misrepresented the condition of the vehicle he was selling. Had I gotten a PPI these issues and probably more would have come to light but that does not make it ok for the seller to not mention obvious defects in the car he is selling. I made a lower offer on the car based on the defects not mentioned by the seller that I saw while sitting in a parking lot at dusk and on a short test drive. Given that the seller had failed to mention that the car would not idle on its own, the odometer is inoperable, the headlights don't work, the hatchback doesn't latch properly, the gas tank only can be filled to half capacity,a broken driving light lens, the hood won't stay up,and "it's better to shift gears yourself than to put it in drive".
When I won the auction, I was not buying a car with all these issues based on the sellers description. I did make a lower offer but I'm glad he didn't take it because this is a project car. I already have a project car so that's not what I am shopping for.

Landseer

Under 20, they are all project cars. And above, from 8 years reading here, most are shortly due some sort of repairs.

The value continues to be the diamonds in the rough, needing lots of peripheral repairs, but having straight bodies, solid running gear internals and intact interiors with no tears. The price point for these examples is racheting upward it seems.
Not sure if this ebay find fits that bill or not. regardless, its not what you wanted

If misrepresented to you, as it seems it was, I agree with your position and appreciate the "beware" alert.

White Lightnin'

Then, you shouldn't be shopping at the $10k level... like Landseer said: start at $20k and the higher the price, the fewer the issues.

This car appears to have less than $500 in the issues you mentioned -assuming you know which end of a wrench is which...

AGAIN, READ THE FAQ THREAD!!!

And yes, not doing a PPI & not asking enough pertinent questions and/or asking for more pics -and then offering a lower price IS a reverse bait -n- switch.

I have made buyers lose their eBay account for the very same reason (threatening to leave bad feedback UNLESS I offer them a partial refund for them to keep the item.

Or maybe you DID read the FAQs and figured that would be an easy way to drop the price on the seller?!?

Sorry all, I am being the voice of many 928 owners that are sick and tired of uppity 911 owners that have been able to maintain the collector value of their cars -thinking that they can buy a $10k 928 and have it be worth 5 times that based on it's original higher cost -without having any issues to deal with. NOT THE CASE. The car in your avatar is probably worth 10x what an S4 is worth at present. When collectors start clamoring for 928s, then the prices will go up.

Sure, some rarer 928 models and museum trailer queens can still command upper 5 and even 6 figures.... but those are few & far between -and not a car for regular driving. Maintenance is still needed to keep them in pristine condition. That is the cost of ownership.

bureau13

Less than $500 to fix the issues listed? Maybe if you have lottery-winning level of luck that day. Seriously, if you can fix that car the OP described for $500 you should go buy it immediately.

slider172

The fact that he was outright lying about the odometer breaking that day was enough to turn me away.
I am aware that the plastic gears crumble with time. They do this on the almighty 911 too. I repaired mine.
I am aware that any 928 will require continuous work but this one mentioned no flaws in the description. This is blatantly dishonest.
Shouldn't One expect a seller to disclose known flaws ? Just because a certain model car has known issues or because issues are simple fixes does not give a seller license to not mention them.
I have purchased multiple vehicles on eBay without problem.
Buying a car long distance requires honesty and trust on both sides. This trust was violated by a seller that purposely did not list known flaws in his ad and blatantly lied about the odometer breaking on the way to deliver the car. I have proof that it was broken for some time in the form of a car fax.
If you are going to mislead me, lie to me,let me drive three plus hours each way to see a car that is nowhere near the car described,harass and threaten me with texts/emails and eBay messages I believe you should expect Bad feedback.
Remember this guy also stated "you will not find a better unrestored 928 anywhere" and "this is a one of a kind find".
Yeah, he may have been telling the truth with the last statement.

White Lightnin'

Really?

Odometer gear: $25
Hatch lock receptacle: $25
Used gas tank: $200
Fog/driving lens: $150 (not whole assembly)
Hood shocks: $60
Trans vacuum line: $15

Total parts: $475 (your labor is free -if you can turn a wrench)

Prices are subjective to looking for decent deals... certainly not enough to offer roughly half of the cost of the car.

It really depends on what the OP was hoping to find for minimal money... I don't know of ANY car that is in the $10k range that IS NOT A PROJECT CAR -that is just dreaming... talk about winning the lottery right?

As stated by others many times before, in many threads beyond this one -the real value in these cars is that when very few 'mechanics' can figure them out & the owners ditch them for spare change. With time, patience, some ability, the WorkShop manual -and RENNLIST... these cars are diamonds in the rough. No other car can offer the 'joy to drive' return on an investment of sweat equity that these cars can.

Just cleaning the dozen ground points will bring things back to life and you'll find out the items were fine all along -just a broken circuit.

It boils down to that old saying: You only get out what you are willing to put in.

Wanna go in cheap? Then, that's what you'll get. The rest is up to you.

White Lightnin'

He wasn't the driver of the car -his daughter was. Whether it was broken that day or the day it was put in storage... what's the issue? The receipt for the timing belt & water pump IS DATED also, right? In fact, he has all maintenance records from the last 10 years... and they are also DATED. Use responsible & MATURE judgement here.

Sounds like you wanted him to go through a car he didn't intimately know, with a fine-toothed comb to disclose tire tread measurements, wrinkles in the leather & a missing valve stem cap to be legitimate in your mind? REALLY? And you didn't ask for a PPI? REALLY Michael?

I believe you opened that can of worms yourself by leaving bad feedback without performing due diligence on your part. Yes, it does take trust & honesty on BOTH sides... so HONESTLY Michael, were you expecting a car like KERMIT (unrestored with less than 3k miles, show winning trailer queen) for $10k?? Remember, be honest. The "Karma is a bitch" message was AFTER your negative feedback -right?

Maybe at that price point & yes, he didn't prep the car very well to support that statement. KERMIT is undoubtedly the best unrestored 928 anywhere... and it can be yours for only 6 figures. See the difference in price points?



I got very lucky with my $5k eBay find... the seller had 5 pages (!) worth of description of the good, bad & the ugly -and I still found things not listed.

Who cares? I got what was once a $75,000 super car for chump change.

The time and money I put into it was by MY choice and to MY specs. Some people don't like the aftermarket parts I have used -and others have used it as the inspiration to create their own dream car.

Again, who cares? It is how I want it, and I DRIVE IT EVERY DAY LIKE I STOLE IT. I am just realistic enough to know that I won't be getting what I have in it -if I sell it.

And my 928 just asks for more!

JHowell37

You keep trying to minimize the list of problems he discovered when he first saw the car in person.

A S4 that won't idle (presumably meaning that it stalls if not holding your foot on the gas) is not the result of an improperly adjusted throttle cable. A best case scenario is the car needs an intake refresh to replace the ISV.

You don't buy a S4 for a 15 year old girl and then wash your hands of it. Let's face it, teenage girls aren't the best custodians of old exotic sports cars. And I find it hard to believe that it was simply placed in storage without any inquiry by Dad as to why it went into storage in the first place. I'm just not buying it.

The seller was aware of the issues with the car. He was just hoping to get someone on a buyer's high who just couldn't bear to go home empty handed.

Ducman82

That car had issues that should have been disclosed. period.

you would not buy a house like that. "well its a old house, old houses have issues. you should know that" kind of attitude.