curtisr

+1

worf928

That doesn't help the OP since he's looking for sources of static current draw with the doors closed and locked.

When you close the doors and turn the key in the lock and hold the key in the lock position the controller will sequentially closed the sunroof and each window. During that time the controller is presumably drawing current to close the relays in succession plus drawing whatever current it needs to determine when to switch to the next relay.

Based upon your description:

it should be inactive when the doors are open, ignition off etc. The logical conclusion is that under other circumstances it is not inactive. So, when the doors are closed is it active? What about closed and locked? If it is active what's the draw and what does it think its doing? How long does it stay active?

With the doors closed and locked, if you unlock the door and hold the key, the controlled will roll down the windows and open the sunroof? Yes? So, it's active then. How long does it stay active?

If you don't know that's fine. I'm just trying to understand.

I do know that one of the controller's failure modes is that it will burn-out the window lift motors.

Alan

But he's already root caused it to the controller. Unless the wiring has been modified - it pretty much has to be a failed window controller - I identified what to try - sticking relay is the most likely.

Well its not quite as simple as I mentioned (of course). The window controller main operation is ~as I described. Full window & sunroof operation is triggered to "active mode" when the ignition turns on and it stays active until you turn the ignition off and open a door - which terminates the active mode (and it stays terminated). There are 2 override modes that enable the window controller temporarily - but they do not trigger active mode - as soon as the condition is removed the window controller is off again.

These overrides are:

1) Key in door lock (or hatch) held in lock position - the controller closes the sunroof & windows in sequence for long as you hold the key - but as soon as lock mode is terminated - the controller turns off, including if the windows are not fully closed. If you hold the key in lock mode even after the windows are closed - there will be no motor current but the controler is still powered ~100mA-120mA. Again as soon as the key is released from lock mode the power goes to <1mA.

2) If you select ROW configuration via the jumper on the wiring loom at the controller then you will get these 2 ROW features

- a) Express close on the drivers door during "Active Mode" only (so not during override)

- b) Windows & Sunroof that are powered in override mode whenever the doors are open (express open still works including sequencing memory on all - but express close does not)

In case b) the act of opening a door still truncates the active mode - but the door being open also acts as an override. The controller will be off when the door is closed again.

Case a) is a nice driving convenience feature disabled on USA cars - presumably for safety reasons - if you were particularly stupid I guess you could trap your own arm or head in the window - personally I think I can handle the risk... Case b) is a great passive convenience feature - notably while washing the car - whenever a door is open the windows are active - no need for juggling a key. Again there is an element of risk here - kids at the unlocked car without a key could trap their fingers/arms/legs/head/body in the window (kids are very inventive!) - but they would have to be particularly stupid. Again I'm willing to risk it - kids that stupid will eventually find other Darwinian termination methods

I haven't actually measured the motor currents - only one is ever allowed to be active at a time. It is likely that the motor active current is in the range of approx 8-10A, (the stalled current will be a little higher) - but I don't know for sure - maybe someone else does. Note that the 500mA and 10 sec delay mentioned by the OP probably was not related to the window controller - it was more likely the interior light controller... (or similar - fan/head unit etc).

Note all this relates ONLY to the window controller fitted from 1990-1995.

Alan

Rob Edwards

At the risk of a hijack, I had the center console in Mark's 91 GT apart over the weekend, and after plugging the window switches back in, the passenger window works but the driver's side does not. There's some sort of switching/clicking noise from the console area (maybe it's underseat?) when the driver's window switch is activated but no window action. What'd I do? (other than ask a dumb question in the midst of a technical discussion... )

Alan

Switch connections aren't reversed (up=down & down=up)?

Alan

Rob Edwards

I thought the factory plugs were asymmetric (only plug in 1 way) but there's no movement of the window regardless of which side of the switch is depressed.

Alan

Some can be forced - even though they are designed not to mate incorrectly - not sure if that applies to these. Unlikely in your case I think.

Alan

isakpede

Hello again and thanks for Your engagement folks.

I have disconnected the four switches in the mid console today, which did not change anything. I also checked the door light switches and cleaned them with electro cleaner. That did not help either. The power consumption is still app. 130 mA with the doors closed and locked.

Tested the opening/closing function with the key in the door lock as described in this tread, which did not function on my car.

Decided to disconnect the power window regulator and to open it for cirgury.
Everything looked normal inside, no sign or smell of burned electronics. Connected a 12V battery to pin 36 and 31 and red out a consumption of 109 mA. There is no sign of short circuit on the print card, also cleaned this with electro clean. There was no clicking of relays when energized. Checked all relays for clearance.

Measured the resistance between pin 36 and 31(earth) to be app. 0,9 K ohms.
Measured the resistance between both pin 37 and 38 to pin 31 (earth) to be 4,5 Mohms. This is two of the relays.

Sorry for the upside down picture

Any ideas other than to just purchase a new regulator?

Now the spring has arrived and the driving conditions are great again!

Happy easter everybody!


regrds


isakpede

Alan

Seems some of your functions operated by the microcontroller don't work..

The Key mode only works to lock & close windows (it doesn't ever open windows), from the drivers door it should close the passenger window first then the sunroof then the driver window in sequence as you hold the key in 'lock'.

Also with the ignition on you should be able to press in sequence: L window switch, R window switch and the sunroof switch and see all express open in sequence based on the controller's keypress memory. I suspect this mode may not work either?

If so your microcontroller seems to be fried, a new module is the most obvious answer.

Alan

isakpede

Thank you Alan.

I will start my search for a new/used controller and give feedback when new unit is installed and tested.


isakpede

worf928

Thanks for that Alan.

So, it looks like the controller is active if plug pins 5-I and 6-II have continuity to ground. Those circuits go to the lock cylinders, door pins, the alarm controller and the hatch motor (yes, it does, but why...)

I assume that the alarm controller knows when the ignition is on (seems logical) and also provides the 'timed' function ('cause I'm pretty sure you can operate the windows for a minute or two once the key is off.)

So, it would seem that if:
- the doors and hatch are closed
- the doors are locked
- the alarm is quiescent (after a couple of minutes)
- 5-I and 6-II are open

then any current draw from the controller points to a failure of the controller.

However, if 5-I or 6-II are grounded then it's a wiring problem.

worf928

No... wait.

Pin 36 (plug 6-III) is 15 bus power, so that's how the unit knows the ignition is on.

Pin 37 (plug 7-III) is 30 bus. So, with the unit on a bench and 12v to 37 and 31 connected to ground any non-trivial current draw means a failure of the controller.

worf928

Did it work before you took the center console(*) apart?

Did you forget to plug the driver's side switch on the left side of the console?

(*) Did the center console still have The Bolt? (You know what bolt I reference.) Getting the center console out of an airbag 928 is my most-hated job.

worf928

Many years ago Porsche was shipping new switches with the up/down pins reversed. I got to watch Earl desolder/solder a switch at SITM one year and D.R. had a bunch in stock with the same issue.

Now, when you order switches they don't come with the plastic plug... (Or, at least, they didn't the last time I got one.)

Alan

No (as I mentioned several times) - but it still works until you open a door (which may make you think there is a delay) in ROW config it works until you open and subsequently close a door (even more so...).

Alan