mkriete

A few months ago, I noticed a clicking or popping sound from front end, on the right side. I started while I was backing up and turning left, then in started happening while I was braking, and then while I was turning right. Once the car warmed up it stopped. A couple weeks ago, we had some beautiful driving weather, so I went for a drive. The sound was much louder and did not stop. I returned home quickly. Now I could hear the sound when I pushed down on the front end.

I lifted that corner to see if I had any play in the wheel. Up and down, I had none at all. Side to side, I have just a bit, but I could not hear the sound. I put the car back on all fours until I had some time to look further into it, which was yesterday. I could no longer hear the sound when I pushed down on the front end. I lift one corner and looked for play and listened for the sound and looked for loose joints. This time I could hear it when I pulled out on the rear side of the wheel. Other than some slight upward and downward movement near the inner tie rod, I did not see any movement. I used a stethoscope to listen to each ball joint, all four control arm bushings, the drop link, and the tie rod. I could hear the sound in the drop links, the upper A-arm rear bushing, and the tie rod. It seemed to be loudest in the tie rod. I removed the wheel and used my pry bar on all the joints, no movement in the ball joints and good response from the all the bushings. I lifted the drivers side corner and repeated the same process. I checked all the bolts to make sure they were torqued to spec, and they were. I pulled the bellows boot back from the tie rod. The inner tie rod looked good and the rack seemed tight. I had someone turn the steering wheel and I looked and felt for play, and it seemed tight. Under the car I noticed the rack assembly looked to lift up from it mounts when the steering was turned. I did not hear any clicking or popping.

When I got the car, the right front tire was toed out and completely worn on the inside. I replaced the struts, wheel bearings, and replaced the upper ball joint boots, and of course the tires. The ball joints appeared serviceable, the boots were just dried and slightly cracked. I had the car aligned, and the shop told me it was better, but not right on. They recommended I take it to an alignment specialist. I soon started hearing the popping, so I figured I would get it aligned after I tracked down the noise. The car pulls, but it does not wander. The steering is responsive and I notice very little play. The rack is leaking where the hoses tie in, but it is a slow leak.

I have no idea where else to look. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Is there anything I'm missing?

I have a 1980 US A/T.

ammonman

How long since the last wheel bearing re-pack/adjust? Are the bolts holding the steering rack to the cross member tight? How do the rack mount bushings look?

Mike

Mrmerlin

get a magnet and place it on the lower ball joints if they are aluminum replace them ASAP.

The rack lifting is failed bushings you can get derlin replacements then the rack wont move.

You should get 4 new sealing washers for the banjo bolts, this should stop the leak.

Look closely at the inner tie rods if you have any play now is the time to replace them. both inner and outer.
If the rack boots look dried out swap in a new set.

Inspect the inner lower side of the wheel bearing mount surface of the spindles,
if its worn then the wheel can move some,

NOTE dont be temped to make the adjuster nut tighter than it should be,
NOTE the washer must be able to slide with gentle pressure applied to the side of the washer with a screwdriver tip.

NOTE make sure to surface the washer on both sides and the nut with 400 grit paper,
this will remove any burs so an accurate adjustment reading can be made.

mkriete

The wheel bearings were replaced 1,000 miles ago. I replaced the washer, as it was very rough. I opened them up and they were tight, maybe a little too tight. I'll back it off a little.

I, thankfully, have steel lower ball joints.

The rack is not loose against the cross member, but it is hard to see the condition of the bushing, but they don't look great. I only see up and down movement at the rack, no side to side movement. I think the PO recently replaced the inner and outer tie rods and boot. I saw no play even after I removed the bellows boot.

Update: I found the drivers side motor mount bushing has rotated 90 degrees from the motor mount frame. Could this also cause a popping sound on the passenger side?

Mrmerlin

need a picture of this MM bushing

mkriete

Mrmerlin. I'll begin with a warning about myself. . . newbie. I had not seen a picture of an early MM. I saw the empty bracket on the lower end of MM and thought it was out of place. Now I don't think so. I attached 2 pictures of the left side and one of the right. I'm missing the damper bolt on the left side. I do feel better though. I don't have MM in my budget. I do have a nice mess of power steering fluid in there. The MM don't look bad.

I took a better look at the rack bushings. I don't think they look too bad.

Back to banging my head.

Mrmerlin

OK so you might need the motor mounts these are early style,
is the pan touching the cross member

mkriete

The pan is clearing the cross member.
What's different with the new style MM? Are they similar to the S/S4 style?

mkriete

whoops. wrong picture. From the other side.

mkriete

I found a couple other threads that seem similar to my issue:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...nk-update.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...gh-camber.html

These post got me thinking about other things I have noticed, that may be related:

1. When I bought the car, the right front tire was toed out. I thought for certain it was a wheel bearing issue, so I replaced the bearings and races on each side. I found the right side did not have a washer. I purchased a new washer. The spindles did not look warn. The surface of the spindle was smooth.

2. I found the support from the upper A-Arm to the lower cross member was not attached at the cross member. The support did not look bent. I replaced the bolt. It slid right into place without any problem.

3. My brakes have been shuttering. I have new rotors, new pads, and rebuilt calipers on all four corners. I have also flushed the brake fluid. Less then 1,000 miles on them.

4. I noticed the right front brake rotor wobbles as I turn it. It is not loose, nor is the wheel bearing loose. It does not rotate evenly. I re-cleaned and greased the calipers. The caliper piston is fully depressed. I see the brake rotor wobble between the brake pads. The pads are new, so I don't have a large gap, but the pads leave a mark on the rotors in the same location every time I spin the hub. I had the rotors checked at a shop and they are perfectly straight, no warping.

5. I loosened the wheel bearing. Still no play in the wheel (when I shake it at 12 and 6). It was a little too tight anyway. The rotor still wobbled between the brake pads, so I loosened the bearing further. The wobble reduced, but now there is play in the wheel bearing.

6. I flipped the retaining nut on the wheel bearing. No change in the wobble.

I think I may have a bent spindle. I suppose the sound could be the rotor hitting the caliper frame, or the brake pad binding up. IIRC, a bent spindle can be identified when the car is being aligned. Before I take it in to have it aligned, specifically looking at the spindle, is there anything else I should look at? Also, how would I measure the frame to confirm it is not bent?

Regarding the motor mounts, I don't see that there is newer version for the early model years. Can someone point me in the right direction?

mkriete

Update:

I finally got back on the front end project. Sorry to take so long to post an update. Rather than replacing parts on a trial and error basis, I took it to a mechanic. He found two problems:
1. The upper A-Arm bushings were bad.
2. The wheel seal was installed backwards

He flipped the seal around for me. This was the source of the scraping sound.
I ordered rebuilt Arms from Tom at 928. The arms look brand new! Thank you Tom. I got them installed this week and took for a drive yesterday. No more popping and what a difference it makes in the feel of the road!
However, I still have a clicking sound. At least it does not sound like the wheel is going to fall off.

So I was trying to find a single source for the sounds I was hearing and it turns out it is a least three different parts.

SMTCapeCod

Thanks for adding the remedy to the thread!

How many hours did you get hit for on the a-arm install?

mkriete

I installed the A arms myself. It took me about 4 hours. I suspect an experienced mechanic could do it in 2 hours. The worst part is the front right A arm nut. It is a tight squeeze between the bolts and the exhaust manifold. I used a shallow well 7/8" socket on my 3/8" breaker bar (I could not find a shallow well 22mm socket). I took all I could give it while laying flat on my back under the car.
I was charged 2 hours to inspect it and flip the wheel seal. I thought that was reasonable.

mkriete

Well, I got one good drive in. The second drive I heard the noise a little bit. My third drive, the noise was back in full force.
I took it back into my mechanic and he did a full inspection of the front end. He thought now that the noise was the sway bar link. I did not think it sounded like a sway bar link, and I do not want to trial and error replace.

I knew my engine struts were bad, so I removed them. It made no difference in the noise. Next, I disconnected the sway bar links and drove around the block. The noise was still there. So back up on jack stands and off with the wheels. Something does not look right.

I'm going to stop here and start a new thread called "A-Arm Coil Over Clearance."

mkriete

I finally had some money back in the budget to try and tackle the front end noise again.

I removed the lower ball joints earlier this week. The boots were clean, but the front right was so loose the boot would re-center the joint. I torqued it down to spec and went for a drive this afternoon. Hallelujah! The noise is gone and the steering feels awesome! What a good drive. I was rolling along on some twisties, gaining quickly on a late model 5 series BMW. Rather than spoil my drive, he picked up the pace. 30+ years of German engineering, do what is was made to do.

Thank again for all the help and advise.