bureau13

I have been reading some of the older threads mentioning both of these key words, and it seems like different things...but my car doesn't seem to have different lights for these. As far as I can tell, I have "parking lights" which are more yellow and on the outside (middle really, I guess, there are yellow lights that wrap around a bit on the far outside) and "fog lights" on the inside. But the fog lights go out if I put the high beams on, I can't turn them on unless the low beams are also on, but if nothing is on and I "flash to pass" the fogs light up.

Is this correct? And do the two different terms refer to different functions of the same lamps? Or am I confusing the domestic cars with the Euros?

Wisconsin Joe

You are mixing the US and Euros.

The amber wrap around lens is the turn signal. Only lights up when signalling.

On the US, the outside is the parking light. On when lights are in first position. Only one bulb.
On the Euro, the outside light is both a parking light and a fog light. "Little" bulb on when lights in first position. "Big" bulb goes on when fog light switch pressed (and either parking lights or headlights are on).

On the Euro, the inner light is the Aux High Beam. Flash to pass when lights are off, goes on with the headlights on high beam. I've heard that the combo of real Euro Aux High and H4 high beams can be used for signalling the space station.

On the US, the inner light is both the flash to pass and the fog light. I'm not sure how it operates with the high beams.

Edit to add: This is for the older body style, 86 and earlier.

bureau13

OK, that makes sense. Man, the Euros get all the good stuff...

Alan

It very much depends on year. For an 86 the above is correct for S4 & Later ('87 & up) USA cars also have true front fog lights and aux high beams.
Aux high beams are always on with main high beams (and are not switchable separately) - if the pods are down only the Aux high beams flash in flash to pass.

On USA cars the fog lights (if switched on) are disabled during high beam use, on ROW cars they are not (so both Fog & Aux can be on together).
Functional differences became a little less between USA & ROW on later cars - however the actual equipment is still different:
Different headlight design, different Aux/Fog cluster (with Fog/Aux lens positions reversed for some perverse reason!).

In general you are right - ROW lighting is always better - for this thank your government's Department Of Transport who's archaic & dumb rules forced Porsche to downgrade much of the lighting design for the USA market.

Alan

bureau13

There is always some govt department to "thank" for stupid rules like this! At some point I'll have to upgrade to H4s I guess. I like the idea of LED but the ones available look odd to me when down. Since you can see the lights in the down position on these cars, I'd prefer an LED bulb that simply plugs into a standard (or H4) reflector assembly, but I've don't know if that exists/works well.

Speaking of LED, is there a good LED replacement for the fogs? Those lights seem pretty dim.

FLYVMO

The LED H4 headlight bulbs exist, see here: http://oraclelights.com/automotive-l...lacement-Bulbs

They also have them in H3 format for fog/aux high beam but not sure of the lumens on those. Once you go to H4 headlights you will wonder what the heck the DOT was thinking...

Cheers!
Carl

dr bob

Tangent--

Is there an easy way to get the ROW foglight logic fo the USA S4+ cars? Would be nice to maintain the fogs as low fill under the main beams.

Alan

Yes but it varies:

For '87-'88 swap the 85 connection on the fog light relay (XIII) to a direct ground connection*

For '89-'90 swap the 85 connection on the fog light relay (IV) to a direct ground connection*

For '91 & up simply replace the secondary fog light relay (VIII) with a 30/87 bridge.

*This is the difference in the factory harness between USA, Japan Vs. ROW

Alan

jcorenman

Alan, I thought '87-90 fog lights could be changed to ROW behavior by swapping the fog-light relay for a standard '53, with no wiring changes.

My recollection is that the socket was wired with a ground connection on the normal 85-terminal, and the USA-only ground-with-low-beams was on a separate, smaller terminal. So with a 53 relay plugged in the coil was connected to ground, and with the USA-relay (928.615.117.02??) plugged in then the coil was connected to the headlight switch to disable fog's when hi-beams were switched on.

Was I dreaming about that? My fogs stay on and I thought that all I had done was swap relays.

bureau13

I don't suppose there's anything simple like that for us S3 folks...

Alan

Jim you may be right - I thought about that as I was making the note (since I doubt they really had two different wiring looms) - but I wasn't sure. There are certainly 2 relay types. The USA one has a diode that is actually not needed for the config its in - but maybe you are right that it just uses the corner (small) pin and that may be the only important part of it.

Well worth a try... I don't see that in this case and for those years that it can do any harm.

Alan

Alan

Looks like an '85/'86 has basically a similar fog configuration but with an extra coil input on the USA relay (86 & 86b) to also trigger the foglights from the flash to pass stalk (ROW cars always flash the Aux headlamps). I'm sure that the 86b is also implemented as a small corner pin position.

ROW cars have a Fog relay with the alternate 85 connection (actually in the normal location) direct to ground but don't have the flash to pass fogs feature.

So you could likely use a standard 53B relay in that position and get fogs that stay on with high beams but then you would loose the fog flash to pass feature.

Alan

dr bob

Thanks for the tips! I may go after that. I'm pretty sure there's a spare 53B relay someplace around here. Car is mothballed right now, first time since I've owned it. I have a few things to do on it when I have time, this will be one of them. I may add a heavier-duty ground in parallel with the one in the factory harness. Memory is it's not sized for two bulbs at the same time. Or maybe I'll do the HID conversion on the foglight side (only...) once I'm in there.

bureau13

I honestly almost never use flash-to-pass, but somehow I don't like the idea of losing it. Still, it's an option to consider!

The Forgotten On

I wish my 81 had a flash to pass ability. I can hear the relay clicking when I use the stalk as I would at night but the lights do not flash.

Also, the fog lights work when I have the high beams on,I use it to fill the gap left by the highs. Is this a quirk of the earlier cars?