NC928S4

Thanks to Alan for his continued assistance on my headlight retraction issue. Below are pics of my CE panel for analysis in the hope that I screwed up placement of a relay when I "deoxited" the area.

Alan

Sorry I did look at this and at first glance nothing was really obvious - here are some more thoughts:

I do question the relay in XXV (LH) - this should be a '53B but it looks different from the other presumably new relays you have installed in XX, XVI, XIV (Fuel Pump, EZK, Starter) - maybe thats just the photo...

I also see that relay XXII (Reverse Light) doesn't look like the stock relay (928.615.114.00), it seems more generic - however you could use a '53B here too... and I don't see it being at all important.

Can't tell what kind of relay is in XIII (Foglights) can you pull it & check it - it should be a 928.615.117.02 - This one is important - nothing else will work right.

Leave the relay out and see what happens with the headlights... Any difference.

Alan

namasgt

I'm having similar issues with my headlight motor on a 88. I took the motor out but after reinstalling it not sure how to adjust so the head lights can go up when the switch is turned on or down when the switch is off. Right now with the switch ON the lights come on but headlights do not move. Have to manually turn the motor to get them up. When I turn off the switch the lights go off but headlights stay up. Then in this switch off position (while the engine is running) when I try to manually bring the headlights down at 2/3 down the motor tries to keep the headlight from going down. Even when I turn off the engine with switch off they stay in this 1/3 up position. Any advice? With the bracket disconnected from the motor turning the switch on and off will not operate the motor.

Has anyone removed and replaced a headlight motor on a S4 and got it to operate correctly after re-install? I would appreciate any advise.

FredR

Unlike on earlier models, the S4 motor moves in one direction to lift and other direction to drop the headlights. There is a contact plate on the end of the motor- if you open this up the surfaces should be clean and you can clearly see the exposed copper the wiper travels across and the insulation where power is broken - check for cleanliness. If this face is clean, then when the crank is disconnected the motor should cycle back and forth as the lights are switched on and switched off. The lamps should illuminate when the motor has reached full travel in the upwards direction and switch off before dropping back into the recess.

If the motor is not activating there is a good chance the relay is not working. I seem to remember a thread [by Seth Pyle?] on trying to resuscitate the relay. Not sure if there is a fuse that might explain your symptoms- I have a feeling that if the lamps illuminate the motor is on the same fuse but...? When my relay failed it would not lift the motor but would drop the lamps when switched off. Fortunately I had a spare relay from my late S4.

namasgt

Thanks Fred.
So what happen the car sat for over a year. Put a new battery cranked it and it started right up. Was checking all the lights to see if they work. Never had problem with the headlights in the 10 years I've had the car. The headlights worked fine for about 4-5 cycles. I left the headlights on and drove around and when parked turned the switch off but the headlights did not come down! They were only retracted maybe 10 degrees and had stopped. It was getting dark so I turned off the car to check it in the morning. Come to find out when they were in the up position the motor over spun so that when I turned the switch off the arm rotated in the opposite direction and end up jamming against the oil cooler bracket. I manually spun the motor to move the arm away from the oil cooler and kept spinning it until the headlights came down. At this point even the light bulbs would not turn on. I could manually bring the headlights up with the switch on and the lights would not come on. Then when the switch was turned off the headlights came down like how they normally would.

I end up talking the motor out and opened it. All the copper contacts looked clean with no oxidation. I put the motor back together and realized something is wrong with the relay, I failed at cleaning it so bought a used one from Ebay (who knows maybe this relay is bad too). With the motor out I put the replacement relay in and the light bulbs would come on and off while seating inside the fenders. So I bolt the motor back on but now I cant seem to have the motor in a position so that when I turn the switch it moves the headlights up and turn them on or go down when I turn off the switch.
I looked at a friends car and while looking down the engine bay the motor would spin counter clock wise to raise the headlights and clockwise to go down. On mine when the bracket is disconnected and I put the switch on ON nothing happens (motor does not spin), but when I manually try to spin it in switch ON position, after a few turns it catches and tries to spin clockwise, it does the opposite with the headlight switch off.

Is it possible the motor is burned? I may have to check this replay to see if its not bad.

no doubt

The fuse is 27 and it won't hurt to install a new 15a fuse just to be sure, but lights on while never popping up suggests a bad relay, which is testable.

Obviously you could test the relay if you had a spare, but at $170+ each, not many will have spares handy, so...

You can easily pry back the metal case circumference tab to remove the metal case around the headlight motor relay. This is best done after removing the relay from the fuse box.

Now that you've opened up the Headlight Motor Relay, surprise! There are 4 little relays inside arranged 2x2 like a square. Imagine a cross drawn down the center of the HL-relay, leaving 1 little relay in each square.

The relay in the right rear quadrant is the only one that you want (if you are solving a non-pop-up condition). With the relay plugged back in without its metal cover on it, simply press that springed-metal flap closed on that back right internal relay. If you have battery power and your headlight motor is working, your headlights will raise right up. Ignition doesn't matter? Motor can be off. Maybe key in Run position just to be sure.

Now, if pressing that relay hinge "fixes" your pop-up headlights so that they actually, you know, pop up, then you can expand the spring on that relay just a bit so that it still closes the relay when you aren't pressing on it, but pressing it closed suddenly becomes much easier... which means that an ailing, old relay can suddenly have the power to work that relay again. Needle nose pliers and a screwdriver are your friends here. Don't go crazy on it, though. again, this is best done with that relay removed from the fuse panel.

Presto!

You've fixed your pop up headlights for free, and even better, without waiting for a new relay to be delivered to you. At this point, you can reinstall the metal cover if desired.

Tip: make a "handle"
When you remove the relay to gain access to the metal cover such that you can pry the edges back to remove that metal cover, wrap some heavy non-conductive twine around the base of the relay while plugging it back in without the metal cover on. Then grab the twine and pull to remove the relay later (since it won't have the metal cover on it to grip to pull it off).

928Collector

Gentlemen:
Can anyone help with how to remove the headlight motor? in my 1980 928 the motor gets stuck - physically can not be removed.
I've rotated the arms into different positions. I've got the three screws off and the center screw.

I've gotten the 3 screws (blue arrows) and the 1 center screw (red arrow) off but can not wiggle the headlight motor our

Any help much appreciated

Mrmerlin

remove the radiator top clamps and the PS tank clamp,
then push the radiator back a bit , that should give you enough room

928Collector

A prior forum says at this point, pry back the arm from the center screw.
but to clear the height of the center screw would permantly bend the arm?
Should I raise/lower the arms to raise/lower the motor as right now the motor can not move laterally enough to the left to clear the center nut of the arm to free up the motor.
As far as I can tell the radiator is not in the way but maybe i'm not seeing the matrix?
What am i missing?

Mrmerlin

that short arm is on a wedge splined shaft of the motor,
a pry with a screwdriver will let it fall away from the motor shaft then removal of the motor is possible.

NOTE mark the shaft of the motor to the arm before you pry the arm off

928Collector

Thanks. I've gotten it this far.
I must be doing something wrong as to pry the short arm away from the motor center screw requires a lot of force which I've hesitated to do.
Do the arms need to be in a certain position to make the prying a simple/light force step that allows the motor to fall away?
What is a "wedge splined shaft?" Isn't it pictured above?

And thanks for the heads up on the proactive "marking" of the shaft of the motor. I'll kick off a separate post on this issue as to how to avoid having to remount the motor and avoid having to reinstall the motor and have to adjust the arm positions. Any thoughts here much appreciated.

Mrmerlin

remove one of the front windshield wiper arms to see what a wedge shaped shaft looks like.
mark the location of the wiper blade to the window before you remove it

928Collector

Gentlemen:

I might be doing something wrong but to to pry this arm would require significant pressure.
It would probably even permanently bend the arm which probably throw off the head light position.
Other say "its pretty straight forward" to free up and remove the head light motor.
What am i not seeing in the matrxi?

That nut is at least 1/2 inch high

928Collector

As to a wedge shaped spindled shaft on a wiper blade, which is it below?
what is the relevance to "prying" the head light motor to create space between

the center screw and arm?

928Collector

Roger at 928sRus said pop a screw driver in here - it worked

Gentlemen:

its easier to remove these two circlips. a simple insertion and twist of a screw driver head in the gap and they pop off. Be sure to order replacement circlips from 928sRus.com.

But now I can't remove this arm(Red arrow) from the center nut on the head light motor

Any advice/thoughts much appreciated.

How do i separate the arm from the motor screw (see Red arrow). The blue arrow arm simply pulled away once the circlips were removed