cobalt

I have been following the air cooled 911 market and it had gone ballistic for a while. It appears to be slowing down and settling out but some models like the 930, 964 turbo and 964 RSA have hit levels I don't think anyone imagined.

nearly 300% increase since a little over a year ago and 400% increase for very rare models like the 94 turbo S.

So that leads me to the 928 market. It would appear the low mileage S4's and GT's have seen a considerable increase in value yet the GTS which was beginning to show signs of growth 4 years or so back have now slumped. It would appear we have seen a drop of roughly 15-20% over the past year. Even Willhoit has few for sale and seems to have moved over to the air cooled market. The low mileage GTS's he has would appear to be priced $15K or more less than a year ago and the S4's are up $15K or more.

What gives? I never would have expected that my base 964 C2 would be worth more than my pristine GTS 5 speed but that would appear to be the case.

thoughts?

tv

911 guys are weird and the hot potato party for GTS's is over

hb253

My approach is to not think about it and just let whatever happens - happen. We have no control. My goal is simple - to drive my toys as much as possible

Hugo

jwyatt8171

Rest assured folks. I am buying a 1990 S4. I should have possession in a couple of weeks. The market will surely drop!

rnixon

Supply of nice cars can only go down. There will be waves of people selling, but overall, supply will go down. What's less clear is demand, although it does seem that it's increasing. This combination is my explanation of the recent high sales prices.

Top Gear showing the 928 in the next series can't hurt. We can all help by driving them more too

The Fixer

I'd want (2) base 964s as trade for a nice GTS,
what gives indeed.

But you know the answer. It's 911s are the Porsche road car icon,
The 928 is a fantastic car (intelligent car guys know this) and gaining but will never get where the 911 is.

I say who cares.

cobalt

I am trying to determine what to do. I have too many Porsche's (is there such a thing) I am converting my 93 C2 back to stock and building a track car. The GTS just doesn't get driven enough, as much as i enjoy it I find my track car gets more mileage than any of the others. The turbo is staying unless it hits $300k then it goes.

I also have the issue of my 16 year old son getting his license soon according to my insurance agent I should expect between $8k and $12k increase in auto insurance per year once he is a licensed driver. OUCH!!!!

I am surprised to see the GTS's sliding down in value they really are a great car and are worth much more than they are selling for but it is a matter of economics so I must decide to sell the GTS the C2 or both.

Based on what I am seeing a 65k mile 93 5 speed in rare color combo perfect condition Concours winner all service up to date and records from day one is only worth $36k tops. I can get $40-45k for the C2 with 60 k miles.

rnixon

That sounds very low, but it's hard to know without actually trying to sell it. It's easy to see other cars not selling, or selling lower, but unless you've done all the research (including PPI) on them, you don't have the information to compare them to yours.

Jadz928

They're all going up, some at a different rate as others... but all up.
Will they surpass 911's? No. But those will keep going up too.
People want a vintage Porsche driving experience...
and the 928 is well-suited in it's own ways to provide them with what they desire.
Who cares? Some do, some don't. But it will be good for everyone in many ways.
Might actually start seeing more 928's on the up-swing, instead of being covered in moss.

The Fixer

Anthony,

we had this discussion a few months ago.

I didn't agree with what you thought your 964 would bring if sold because i can find them nice for less than 45K. I live in Pa outside Philly btw.

I say, put them both up for sale (let us follow along as well)
and i will bet you get the same offers or slightly more for the GTS.

I just can't see a base 964 going for 45K in our area easily
unless perfect. Your car may be, haven't seen it. If it is now a track car
forget about it. No way imo.

A few months ago a local white 993 in very, very nice condition with 68k miles asking $40K or near offer. The 993 is a more desired 911 than the 964 as you know.

Here's another 993 i found in 2 seconds: http://delaware.craigslist.org/cto/4670786279.html

And this is a dealer price.

I just found a '72 911T asking $22K negotiable in MD. A couple nice SCs for under $20K.

And let's not forget an early Boxster or Cayenne S V8 can be had for $10K.

928s aren't doing so bad.



Good luck,

Matt

Jadz928

Your valuation is low, colbalt. Give the car more credit (pls don't take that the wrong way), then challenge the market to meet your price.

rnixon

Exactly. This is how a lot of the high-priced cars sell, a seller that doesn't want to sell below a high price, and one (or more) buyers that don't want to wait or take the chance on finding another as good.

mickster

Wrong time of year. Wait until March and watch prices come up again.

cobalt

I have interested parties for the 964 at $45k it is very clean and low mileage despite being driven hard it still has perfect numbers and runs like a dream. Finding a sub 100k mile 964 is not easy. Actually I have seen a huge increase in interest for the 964. The 993's are a dime a dozen too many low mileage cars around; lately the 964 is impossible to find in this clean condition. A 23k mile 964 C2 recently sold for $110k I see similar 993's in the $68k range. Low mileage original RSA's have seen prices close to $200k but most sell in the upper $80k, I don't think there is a stock 993 other than the turbo or turbo S that comes close to that although some Turbo S's have exceeded $300k The 964 turbo S's are well above $500k now and some over $600k. the 964 turbo 3.6 is trumping the 993TT's mine is easily worth $240k. Heck the 75-77 turbo carrera's are close to $200k and I wouldn't take one of those if you paid me.

I just haven't seen any GTS's sell recently and even with issues there are a number in the sub $30k range. Clean low mileage examples seem to be asking low $50k so i would assume 65k miles hurts mine. I have had several GTS owners drive mine and they seem to comment that mine is one of the tightest GTS they have driven although the suspension is modified with GT sport bilsteins/springs and upgraded sways. I have all the original parts. I would hate to part with any of them they are all great and superb examples but I am not getting any younger and barely have time to drive them. I find more pleasure driving my F150 raptor lately. (Porsche owners mid-life crisis vehicle)

I have so much on my plate with this track car and even doing the work myself it is amazing how quickly it adds up.

So assuming I entertain the notion where would you guys start?

BTW The 964 is a very clean example as you can see not a drop of oil only cosmoline and leak down numbers still in the low single digits. Minor tuning she puts out 290BHP and is as fast as the GTS off the line. It is also a 93 which is quite rare less than 450 made that year. When I am done cleaning her up she will be a rare find.

Although the GTS is equally as clean and runs strong with factory spec dyno numbers.

I know it is the wrong time to consider selling just need to make room otherwise something is sitting outside this winter and I can't afford the insurance and College is around the corner. I should have made the garage larger.




I just want to add I think the 928 is on the rise in general it seems the GTS is no longer as coveted as it was before and a fine S4 or GT is an equally nice car for less.

worf928

No. There is NO SUCH THING as too many Porsche's. We have four (one is not in .sig) and I am seriously thinking of adding a Mecan in the next year or three.

You need More Garage!

That's just freakin' insane! ~$1K per month to add a teenage driver? Maybe I'm on another planet... but that seems surreal.

I say don't over-sample the market; you just get noise.