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I put down a deposit yesterday on an 1987 black S4 for which "everything works" (probably not) and "runs great" (by luck - the timing belt is 20 years old). I did not check everything, and did not dare drive it differently than the owner (i.e., like a Buick.) The seller will drive it into my garage (from Boston, 200 miles) and then we'll head to my bank. If he makes it, that is.
I was a car nut when I was young, but suppressed it for many years to save money for retirement. It appears I saved too much, so I am indulging in various vehicles, including an '09 Cayman S PDK last year, which is absolutely amazing but presents no challenges of the sort an old Porsche does. Old 911's are a bit cliche and expensive, hence the 928. I've always been intrigued by them. And one of my bucket-list items was a car with a V8.
I live in the Adirondack Mountains of upstate NY. The driving is great once the frost heaves have receded and they've swept the sand off the roads. I run a photography business, but have been winding it down. My first career was as a metallurgist, doing research on "superalloys" for jet engines, mostly in Cincinnati. I had a brief relationship with Ferrari F1 when GE had a consulting arrangement with them - I had a great time at the 2000 Indy F1 race as a guest of Ferrari. I first went to an F1 race at Watkins Glen in 1967.
I have a PhD in engineering, but I have avoided serious automotive surgery; I am easily flummoxed by stuck bolts and the other frustrations of old machines. That is, I am a coward. But holy cow! - the amazing information shared by members of this forum give me confidence that with care and patience, I can do the TB/WP/ETC stuff over the winter.
I let my Facebook friends know about the 928 by posting a photo of it (beautiful!) along with a photo of the fuse panel (holy crap!).
OK, back to making room in the studio shop. I expect it's arrival on Wednesday. Perhaps I'll check the belt/tensioner, then drive it around a bit if it looks OK, while waiting for parts. Maybe not - what do you think?
Curt,
Yes, Welcome to the Tank.
Good looker !
Was the prior owner (PO in Forum linguistics) on Rennlist ? - car looks familiar - may be then some history/preservation status can be gleaned. Is an interference engine so if timing belt/water pump status not known, could be catastrophic. Keep posted. Below is a link to Dwayne's tutorials to familiarize yourself with things.
Welcome, use Dwayne's write-up for TB/WP & any others he has available. I'm a novice mechanic and have been able to keep my 87 running with the help on this forum. Heed their warnings. There are hard learned lessons behind the don not drive on old belt phrases.
Good idea letting the PO drive the car to you- with a 20 year old TB (so last documented change was in '94?), I wouldn't hand over the check until it was parked backwards in my garage, ready to go up on jackstands for the timing belt/waterpump R&R.
Conveniently you've purchased an '87, the same year that most of Dwayne's outstanding maintenance writeups are performed on.
Though there is a metric ton of great information on 928s here on RL, as a place to start on the routine 'big' maintenance jobs, there's no better distillation of info than Dwayne's writeups. They have been archived on a separate site, linked below.
Here's your Labor Day weekend reading on the scheduled care and feeding of 928s:
If you have a PhD in Engineering, and did research on superalloys, you are most assuredly not a coward.
The 928 has a bad reputation for being difficult to work on, but as an abject novice, I can report that it is not that hard to do a timing belt job, or delve into the electrical workings of the car- with the help of people on Rennlist, all of whom are very gracious and generous of their time and knowledge.
Hope you have a great time with your new car. (And, hope it makes the 200 mile trip.)
Kind of like starting a GT with known cracked R1-3 compressor blades. Sure, it might be OK... The timing belt knows nothing about the throttle except the RPM's part, so driving it like a Buick isn't much better than full-throttle dashes to 3000 RPM's from every stoplight.
Playing a well-used record here, I recommend budgeting for all the rubber bits on a car like this. Beyond the timing belt, the fuel hoses are a well-known failure point with age and/or miles. The oil and rubber intake hoses under the metal intake manifold are rotted, so the intake comes off to do that work. The water manifold (called the "water bridge" by many) has gaskets and seals that will want replacement, amd removing that helps access to the plastic oil filler neck, another known failure point. Having the intake off means fuel injectors are out, so get hem cleaned and put them back with new seals top and bottom. All new coolant hoses while you have things drained for the timing belt job. The rest of the belts need to be renewed. Brake system gets completely flushed, and those original brake hoses get replaced. Fuel filter and the rear fuel lines get replaced. High-side ignition is loose for the belt, cam covers come off to be refinished along with the intake while it's off, so new plugs and wires, caps and rotors. The original shocks need to be replaced, with a hard look at lower balljoints and steering bits while that stuff is apart.
Power steering hoses are a known failure point, usually spraying ATF onto the hot exhaust manifold. It's a crude flashpoint test for the fluid. PS fluid reservoir is a maintenance/replace part at 25k, same schedule as the auto transmission fluid and filter.
Clean all the grounds, and replace the fuel pump, fuel injection and igniton relays now. Battery ground strap too.
New fluids throughout. Cars with limited-slip differentials need the right fluid in the final drive unit. There should be an options-list sticker under the carpet and padding in the boot. Look for option code 220 for the limited-slip.
Getting this stuff taken care of is key to having a safe and reliable car to drive. Guessing that the previous owner wasn't that focused on PM's if the belt has been in there 20+ years.
I'm old and slow and careful, so a timing belt replacement uses up a couple days with all the collateral stuff.
And... Welcome to the group! You've landed on perhaps the best automotive user support network around. Spring the few dollars for Rennlist membership, and you can get better searching if I rememeber correctly, add a signature line that reminds us what car you have when you post a question, gets you past some of the embedded ads, etc.
Enjoy the car, post more pics when it gets to you, and don't be at all afraid to tackle almost anything on the car. Folks here have been known to visit and wrench for not much more than lunch sometimes, and darn near anything you discover on your car has been discovered, documented and solved by someone here. I know that it would be a much more challenging ownership experience without the unflagging support of the folks here and our dedicated parts suppliers.
The 928 Owner's Club is worth joining, and provides another layer of owner support. The OC encourages gatherings and events by sharing (your/our...) funding for event shirts and banners, logistical support, etc. that make more events possible. In just a few short weeks, the annual Frenzy event happens near DC. Sharktoberfest is in Anaheim in October. Next spring there's a gathering of owners in the mountains of western North Carolina for Sharks in the Mountains. Groups of owners meet up and caravan/tour to these events, so you have something to look forward to (read: finish your catch-up work in time for...).
Wow, I look forward to a long winter. That's quite a todo list.
Thanks for the nice welcome. I read Dwayne's epic TB article several months ago, and several others, too. And all the stuff for new guys. I'll soon have to start squirting penetrant, though.
The previous owner could not have visited here and been so cavalier about the TB. I think he was pretty good otherwise, in fixing things that needed fixing rather than let them accumulate. Preventative maintenance, no.
Perhaps I can do the Frenzy - I owe my father a visit in Virginia.
I stopped yesterday at the only indy shop for miles, just to see if he'd do the TB and WP for something reasonable. He's still working on an estimate, but mentioned that he won't use anything but new OEM parts. He won't even rebuild the tensioner. That ain't going to work out, so plan A is still in effect: I'll be stocking the garage refrigerator. Too bad my schedule for building another garage with a lift was delayed a year.
(When will you be passing by on your way to Watertown? This particular garage has a guest apartment. Ha!)
Dr. Bob: it took even me a moment to parse "GT with known cracked R1-3 compressor blades" with GT meaning "gas turbine" instead of "grand touring". Thanks for sparing me even more graphic analogies, such as a hard-alpha defect in a fan disk (remember Sioux City?)
I stopped yesterday at the only indy shop for miles, just to see if he'd do the TB and WP for something reasonable. He's still working on an estimate, but mentioned that he won't use anything but new OEM parts. He won't even rebuild the tensioner. That ain't going to work out, so plan A is still in effect: I'll be stocking the garage refrigerator. Too bad my schedule for building another garage with a lift was delayed a year.
(When will you be passing by on your way to Watertown? This particular garage has a guest apartment. Ha!)
Dr. Bob: it took even me a moment to parse "GT with known cracked R1-3 compressor blades" with GT meaning "gas turbine" instead of "grand touring". Thanks for sparing me even more graphic analogies, such as a hard-alpha defect in a fan disk (remember Sioux City?)
Curt,
My schedule will be hectic, and essentially unknown to me till October. I won't have my tools (and car) in town until the thaw. Would be willing to help with TB/WP job and other matters, but have to wait to tell you when. Off the top of my head I think a new ISV, CPS, and knock sensors as I would take intake off too. Thermostat and water bridge seals too. Also purchase Greg Brown fuel lines for under the airbox. If TB not done in 20 years, these things would be a start. Spark plugs, new Beru cables, distributors, etc are easy up top gets.
08-30-2014, 10:53 AM
New guy...
