"Singer" 928
01-23-2015, 04:24 PM
#166
Racer
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"911 expert employees" are really 964 experts.
As we know, the 964 a much simpler car than the 928.
I don't know how many Singer 911 were build (a dozend)? but just one-off 928 Singer would be cost-prohibitive.
As we know, the 964 a much simpler car than the 928.
I don't know how many Singer 911 were build (a dozend)? but just one-off 928 Singer would be cost-prohibitive.
Last edited by MN; 09-26-2015 at 04:31 AM.
01-23-2015, 04:46 PM
#167
Drifting
Thread Starter
I do a lot in business for free to get more business.
Many car restoration shops have donated finished cars to auction houses for charity.
My view on this is that people today get bored quickly, it would benefit Singer to wow people again with something different.
It's not so much that i think they would sell 10 at $200k.
But they may be able sell a few because they are Singer and Collectors with deep pockets have deep pockets and like collecting great cars. $200k isn't a lot these days to serious collectors.
The 24 window VW bus sells at auction for this now and some haven't been perfect !
Many car restoration shops have donated finished cars to auction houses for charity.
My view on this is that people today get bored quickly, it would benefit Singer to wow people again with something different.
It's not so much that i think they would sell 10 at $200k.
But they may be able sell a few because they are Singer and Collectors with deep pockets have deep pockets and like collecting great cars. $200k isn't a lot these days to serious collectors.
The 24 window VW bus sells at auction for this now and some haven't been perfect !
01-23-2015, 05:15 PM
#168
Rennlist Member
Not at all surprised the Turq car was over $ 100,000 to complete. Presume the Turq was already sold when spotted her on the 2014 Frenzy RL thread back in Sept. Didn't even know she was for sale and I get around, re: ebay, craigslist, auto trader, hemming's, RL, etc. Don't have a clue what the Turq sold for, but feel if that car was marketed for more to see, the return would have been much higher. Fun to see Singer & Walker showing recent interest in the 928 and possibly jumping in the mix. It would bring much deserved attention to these wonderful cars.02 T
01-24-2015, 12:05 PM
#169
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I have just had time to read some of this thread and saw this post and thought "yep" that is about it. I know a little bit about the Singer but I am certainly no expert. The car I am building will certainly be able to be considered an equivalent. I didn't start with a budget in mind and that maybe was a mistake, the costs are very high but so is the spec. The spec has changed from time to time as some of you would know and that itself costs money. In the end I decided to stick with 2 valves and a stick shift gearbox. The car will be measured on a number of fronts, visual appearance, modernised interior, and modernised engine and driveline. To give some idea of the costs and most of this money has already been paid out so it is not some pipe dream. Also with some parts with extensive labour content like the exhaust I will include the material and labour to give a more accurate price. The dampers, ride height system, sensors, the PFC 997 Turbo brakes with 12 way adjustable ABS, the wheels (2 sets) $40K min The inconel F1 style exhaust $25K. The Cosworth ECU and data logger and mil spec wiring $15K. The Corvette 7 speed conversion which is next, this includes carbon clutch, carbon drive shaft, super finished with modified gear ratios, custom 928 ring and pinion, it will not use the Corvette differential and will use a custom software program to run the PSD diff around $40K. So before you start on the engine, which is extremely high tech and uses some F1 technology for performance and packaging you have a mighty bill already. The body work will be partly carbon, i.e the hood, fenders, turret and hatch. These are modified aero pieces for high speed track work. The costs quoted are only basic costs, the components are not dialled in and there is clearly more work to be done. The ECU for example can rev match the gear changes and has many many features, some a little obtuse like driveline backlash control, you can also adjust the amount of engine braking that you want, this ECU is used in the top level Le Mans and Moto GP. I suspect programming will be time consuming. 
Richard Sent from my iPhone using Rennlist
03-14-2017, 10:05 AM
#171
Pro
Here's a Singer 911 in Mn., beautiful car!
03-14-2017, 12:39 PM
#172
Former Vendor
They have built close to 160 so far. Probably more by now. I spoke to a salvage yard that buys the take off parts a few weeks back. They've bought at least 80 cars worth of parts from them...
04-06-2022, 10:41 PM
#173
I was thinking about this today after I visited a local shop that does singer-esque backdates on 964’s. Their biggest beef, they can’t find donor cars which made me remember what an awful car the base 964 was not to mention, I’m tired of looking at rs and rsr “resto mods”.
isn’t it time for someone to do a singer type project with a 928?
isn’t it time for someone to do a singer type project with a 928?
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scoper (04-07-2022)
04-06-2022, 10:48 PM
#174
Archive Gatekeeper
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I would posit that Greg's current GTS track car project is every bit as Singer-esque as a Singer from a mechanical systems standpoint. It doesn't have the interior eye candy because it's intended to be a weapons-grade track car, but it'll drive circles around any Singer (would love to see it against a DLS at track day....). Greg should arrange to have Rob Dickinson drive it- he liked my stroker, Greg's car is a whole 'nuther level.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...treme-gts.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...treme-gts.html
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Matt-R20 (04-06-2022)
04-07-2022, 06:55 AM
#176
Racer
@ greg : I think that $ 300 K singer has a margin between 40 to 50 % sot the real cost should be $150-180 K
I see that lot of you think about a supreme 928. Even though I a not sure about singer way of thinking, I had been thinking of a back date 928.
Certainly, I should hav search for a 90 or 91 GT and then apply on it 2 main ways
1 - look like an OB with phone dial 16 wheel no rubber strip and the body as an OB
2 - improve the interior with high level of quality raw materials such as leather but not too much, carbon fiber parts, etc... and a very high level of finish
what could be done, and it seems to be singer main idea, is to make visible parts look great, then, it could cost lot of $$$ and also lot of engineering backward and it is to make visible part under the engine hood look simplier and beautiful
Is there a market for it...don't know! If I was sufficiently rich for it, I would make it for me.
The advantage of 928 post 1990 is that all the wire harness has been re_shapped by porsche factory and the level of quality is much higher than before...a '89 928 can be a nightmare for that
The GT engine is certainly the optimal engine for the 928 with more sporty behavior than any of other 928 engine....and then you have PSD, AB gear box with short final ratio....
I see that lot of you think about a supreme 928. Even though I a not sure about singer way of thinking, I had been thinking of a back date 928.
Certainly, I should hav search for a 90 or 91 GT and then apply on it 2 main ways
1 - look like an OB with phone dial 16 wheel no rubber strip and the body as an OB
2 - improve the interior with high level of quality raw materials such as leather but not too much, carbon fiber parts, etc... and a very high level of finish
what could be done, and it seems to be singer main idea, is to make visible parts look great, then, it could cost lot of $$$ and also lot of engineering backward and it is to make visible part under the engine hood look simplier and beautiful
Is there a market for it...don't know! If I was sufficiently rich for it, I would make it for me.
The advantage of 928 post 1990 is that all the wire harness has been re_shapped by porsche factory and the level of quality is much higher than before...a '89 928 can be a nightmare for that
The GT engine is certainly the optimal engine for the 928 with more sporty behavior than any of other 928 engine....and then you have PSD, AB gear box with short final ratio....
04-07-2022, 03:13 PM
#177
Official Bay Area Patriot
Fuse 24 Assassin
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If it's one thing I know and have seen is that someone always has the money to buy something that will make them feel unique and standout.
04-07-2022, 04:45 PM
#178
Rennlist
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A couple comments about reality:
This original thread was created in 2014, when Singer's cost about $300,000.
These cars, back then, were "loss leaders"....Singer lost money on every single one.
Today, I doubt anyone can purchase a new Singer for under $600,000.
And the amount of time and effort required to build one is insanity.
If this amount of money actually puts Singer into the "black" on every single car, I'd be amazed.
And even if these cars are now in the black, certainly no one is getting rich, off of them.
Regarding building a "Singer Style" 928, I've certainly done this (and more) with the mechanicals, suspension, brakes, etc. of the "Extremely Extreme 928", which Rob talks about, above.
Yes, the exterior is stock, aside from a Carbon Kevlar rear wing....but is there really any way to improve the looks of a 928, without making it look like a reject from Miami Vice in the 1980's?
Certainly, no more wheels or tire is needed.....the stock chassis will accept plenty of tire and wheel width.
So what's it cost to create something that is truly "Way beyond anything ever done to any other 928" like this?
I've bought/installed/paid for materials totaling over $150,000.
And now that we are almost done, we've "passed" the 1500 hour mark required to engineer, design, build prototypes, and then turn those pieces into viable parts for this car.
.....You can do the math.
This original thread was created in 2014, when Singer's cost about $300,000.
These cars, back then, were "loss leaders"....Singer lost money on every single one.
Today, I doubt anyone can purchase a new Singer for under $600,000.
And the amount of time and effort required to build one is insanity.
If this amount of money actually puts Singer into the "black" on every single car, I'd be amazed.
And even if these cars are now in the black, certainly no one is getting rich, off of them.
Regarding building a "Singer Style" 928, I've certainly done this (and more) with the mechanicals, suspension, brakes, etc. of the "Extremely Extreme 928", which Rob talks about, above.
Yes, the exterior is stock, aside from a Carbon Kevlar rear wing....but is there really any way to improve the looks of a 928, without making it look like a reject from Miami Vice in the 1980's?
Certainly, no more wheels or tire is needed.....the stock chassis will accept plenty of tire and wheel width.
So what's it cost to create something that is truly "Way beyond anything ever done to any other 928" like this?
I've bought/installed/paid for materials totaling over $150,000.
And now that we are almost done, we've "passed" the 1500 hour mark required to engineer, design, build prototypes, and then turn those pieces into viable parts for this car.
.....You can do the math.
__________________
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
