emmanuelli

thats really nice. i'll eye this project closely as, everyone else is doing. the look is definitely a plus and something i'd be interestedin doing to my 5spd.

robot808

Jerry,

Let me know if you have any rejects. I have a 928MS shift gate that has never fit quite right. I bet I could Jimmy something together by cutting up one of the bottom pieces for 5 speed.

ReDesign by FEATHER

I found a small stack of each of the three inserts out in the shop, so I spent some time roughly trimming them. Then I measured the necessary width of the doubler material that is needed to make the lug or whatever it should be called along the bottom edges of both side of the inserts and cut a whole piece of ABS into strips to use for that. Then I also cut some scrap 3/16 inch ABS into similar strips that I can use for some of the doublers that will go inside of the upper insert.

The first trim of the inserts after the forming is with the band saw and then final is with a disc sander with a 4.5 inch 36 grit disc. Then I have glued two of the doubler strips onto one side of two inserts and will let it set for a while, and then when I can be sure it will not spring out of shape I'll go out and glue the other side of each.

Shown in these pictures also is some of the additional tooling I made to do the trimming of the cutouts for the upper insert and one of them is shown with the air vent in it with a trim router. That setup is used to narrow the ends of the vent outlet with the louvers so it will fit nicely in its new location in the insert. The little pins that hold it in now are broken off and then the edge where they were is trimmed much narrower. They will be held in position simply by friction with the leather cover on the insert. Works pretty good, so far as I can tell. That's another reason that it might be smart to have the vent opening done by me in the stage one kit since the tolerance is fairly close in order to have the correct friction to hold it in.

That is probably going to be true even for those who take the Widom short cut and leave the vent assembly affixed to the console rather than cut it out and glueing it into the insert and then fabricating a transition duct to connect it back to the heater box under the dash. The reason I cut it out and moved it is so that it can still be functioned with because otherwise the little lever that opens and closes it will not reach out to the flush position through the opening in the vent.

Alan

Jerry - where you are gluing on the doubler strips - could you make up U-shaped formed pieces that could be glued on the edges more easily?

For me just the rough vacuum formed pieces (or loosely trimmed) would be OK supplied with enough material for reinforcement. I can cut/file/punch/drill as needed quite easily.

I would change the stock vent configuration so while an air-guide extender piece would be needed - I'd eliminate the (stupid) manual control **** on mine - simplifies. I'd imagine a generic peice could be used to extend this and be attached either to the HVAC unit or to the console depending on how the end user wants to configure it.

I'd suggest trying to make the parts as modular as possible to allow you to offer kits that can work together for a range of install options.

Alan

ReDesign by FEATHER

Alan, I already have half of the u-shape formed along the bottom edge of the sides of both inserts. The edges are formed pretty exact for the purpose of defining the bottom edge so the inserts end up at the exact flush position that we are striving for. The simple strips I am glueing along those formed edges is merely to provide a top to the lug that fits into the groves along the side of the inside of the console recess. I can't see how your idea could be simple, or for that matter how anything else might be more simple. Nevertheless, keep up the creative thinking.

I started this development almost solely to replicate the Widom flush conversion which was actually an afterthought be him since he was merely trying to gain the depth needed for his Double DIN Nav Unit to fit. As a result, my development is pretty much directed at a double DIN conversion also. I can't really tell what might be included in what you suggest is a "range of install options." I suspect many options might be precluded by the limitations designed in to my project. But, I guess will maybe see.

Ninespub

Hey Jerry. I think some of the "range of options" would be like what I want. I have an automatic but I use the updated shifter like Paul Champagne and the guy in Australia used to make that looks more like a 5-speed shifter with the leather boot, etc. I'd be all over your inserts because I also want double din. I also believe, like many others on this thread, that I'd be hesitant to ship my whole console anywhere to anybody.

My normal procedure is to assemble ALL the parts and pieces for anything I want to modify in advance and THEN in MY timeline, start the work. An example is pulling out the console & dash, LED lights, New AC replacement parts, mods for new double din radio/gps, your inserts, etc. WYAIT. It may take me 3 weeks or 3 months but I have an extra console & dash so I can do it when I have the time, not pressured by anything else. BTW, how WOULD the modified shifter work with your insert? It uses an leather-covered frame that rests on the flat portion of the console and covers up the shift indicators and the whole shebang.

ReDesign by FEATHER

Good Moring, Paul. If you look at the pictures in the first post you will notice that there are two versions of the lower insert, the one that goes around the shifter. The one with the longer narrower recess in the middle area is the one for the Auto shifter cars. It will do away entirely with the original trim piece AND with the plastic stuff that goes foreward and back with the shifter and also does away with the pointer for the gear selector position.

However, into the recess will be placed, and probably screwed in from below, a heavy ABS plastic boot base, the "sole in the boot" as it were, (probably what you are referring to as a "frame") and there will be a leather or perhaps vinyl boot fabbed around it and up to the base of the shifter handle. I think it will work with whatever shifter handle you want to put on the PRNDL stick.

ReDesign by FEATHER

Also, Paul, look at the picture above of the console with the tan leather inserts. The lower one is a somewhat finished version for the Auto cars. It has a cutout for a clock and two openings for rear AC swithches, either of which can be put there by the finisher, or not.

By the way, thanks for the offer of something to put into the catalog of "range of options," but what you seem to have in mind is just about exacctly what this systen is designed for. Or, how do you think what you have in mind might differ from what I am showing so far?

Ninespub

Thanks for the reply Jerry. As far as I can tell, the "5-spd" insert is a closer fit to my shift system than does the "Rogerbox" auto version you currently show. The recess in the front panel is needed to drop the "frame" into and which also supports the leather boot that goes up the shift post before the actual shift ****. It is not a t-handle, but rather emulates a 5-speed leather boot and **** appearance. There are probably a couple dozen of us that have those units and I recall that Carl at Motorsports sold them at one time also. I'll try to dig up a photo of the "look" so that you understand better if you're not familiar with it.

ReDesign by FEATHER

I have four edges glued up with the outer doublers and trimmed with the disc sander, so I put the upper insert into the router jig and opened up the top and bottom openings--the top for the air vent and the bottom for the HVAC control panels, both of them. When they are opened up, and if the middle opening for the double DIN ewas also opened up ther is almost nothing left of the original sheet of plastic. What is left is very thin and flimsy.

What I do is open the top and bottom openings first then cut some heavier ABS Plastic into strips and trim them to fit inside around the openings so as to beef it up and give it some much needed body. Here are few pictures of this part of the overall process.

When the inside doublers are glued in and the glue cures pretty well, I then have to put the insert back into the router jig and open up the two openings again. This gives me a nice router edge all the way around the now thicker face of the insert at each opening.

The next thing I will do with this is then put the insert into the other jig and rout out the double DIN opening. It will have already been doubled from what I have just put in there, so I will need to do it only once.

The reason I have to do it this way is because the insert strips that are left between the openings are so thin and frail that it is essentially impossible to trim the opening out with the router without the doubler material glued in.

ReDesign by FEATHER

While the glue is curing some more on the upper insert doublers before I do so more routing I turned my attention to the lower insert. There is not too much more to do to it since I have the outer doublers glued on, except the need at some point to open up the bottom of the shifter recess. I'll be leaving enough material around the edges so I can screw the shifter boot base in there.

I did before discover that when the lower insert is installed in a console the trailing edge tends to bow up and leave a gap. That is because what little flange that is formed at the trailing edge will not fit in the console so it has to be trimmed down to very thin.

What I did before and will be doing with all of these is forming a small angle of ABS and trimming it about 3 inches long and then gluing it crossways under the back of this insert. Here are some pictures of that process. You can see the little bit of difference that the little angle glued is makes, even though there is still a bit of upward curvature; and I may still want to do something more about that, although there is some curvature to the upper surface of the console itself.

ReDesign by FEATHER

Paul, I understand just what you are saying about your non-t-handle shifter and the boot you have with it. I also think I understand what you are not saying about them; and that is that you would hope to utilize the shifter handle, the boot and the frame, or boot base, with what might become your flush console conversion. That can probably be done, but I am pretty sure you will need to make your own top area for the lower insert because I am certain that neither of my lower trim pieces will match very closely to your boot and frame.

I will suggest that it is going to be very much easier to sh!tcan your boot and frame and utilize the frame that will likely come with this converion and simply make a new boot, or have one made.

However, you might even be lucky enough to find that your boot, when free of its frame, can be fit to the new frame with my conversion, or perhaps simply resewn and fit to it. The recess in my 5-speed insert does not go far enough foreward to allow for the auto shifter, whether it is t-handle or otherwise. I think you can see that in the earlier pictures.

ReDesign by FEATHER

Earlier today when I cut the two openings in the upper insert I noticed that the lower opening got cut out right at the bottom of the insert leaving actually no surface on the face of it. I didn't think too much about that and went ahead and glued a doubler on the inside of the bottom flange which will also get routed out quite a bit in the next step, but only at the top edge.

Then while I am taking this break I am looking at the picture of the nearly finished version of this conversion, the one with the tan leather covering, and in particular I'm studying the bottom of the upper insert and again noticing the joint next to there where the two inserts come together.

Then, it suddenly occurs to me that there is probably a very simple way to eliminate the joint, and without making the two inserts into one, which I have thought is not a good idea. What occurs to me is that the bottom opening can pretty easily be moved down about the thickness of the plastic, or about an eighth of an inch, more or less, and then just eliminate the flange across the bottom of the upper insert. That way, with the two HVAC panels mounted right at the bottom with nothing like a flange below them, the upper flange of the lower insert will butt up to the panels and not then appear as a joint. The only joint then will just be the tiny joint along each edge of the inserts.

I think that will require the addition of a sheet or two of extra plastic glued at the top of the lower insert, but is will be covered with leather anyway. That will also add a tiny bit of extra surface on the lower insert that might help with the addition of something like a clock or such there.

I think I'll try to incorporate this concept in this iteration of the conversion.

Alan

Jerry I was thinking basically the same thing earlier today - it also can allow more space above the shifter for clocks etc. Excellent idea.

Alan

ReDesign by FEATHER

Hi Alan. After posting about the new idea for the joint between the inserts I looked at it in respect to the router jigs and one of the top inserts. What I did was slightly modify the jig for the first two openings so that it will move the top opening down about a 16th of an inch, and the result is moving both of them down the same, of course, assuming I don't reposition the insert before routing out the second, the lower opening.

When I did both of these first openings in the piece we are showing here I was a little surprised to find the bottom opening right at the top of the bottom flange with no material left over on to the face of it. That in fact is what has started me thinking about this new method of finishing these without the joint showing. So, with the bottom opening moved a 16th of an inch down also that pretty much puts the HVAC Panels right at the bottom with no insert showing at all. So the first Jig is essentilally set to go.

However, when I put the insert into the jig for the Double DIN opening I find that that opening shows up right at the bottom of the top opening for some reason. Even without the move by a 16th the center opening is much too close to the top opening. I know before that it was pretty close to the top and farther from the bottom, but I can't remember why. For now I need to start mocking up the upper insert with the air vent items, the Nav Unit and the HVAC panels to see just what I ought to do with the jig for the center hole.

In response to your post, Alan, I have gone over this change in the design all night and it occurs to me that I have no idea where the thought came from to put some material onto the top flange of the lower insert. Changing the upper inser this little bit and moving the components at the top and bottom only a 16th of an inch, for esthetics essentially, doesn't do anything to the relation of the inserts to each other except hide about 90 percent of the joint.

It may be that putting some ABS on the outside of the top flange of the lower insert will work and will add that much (about 3/32 inch) to the face of the lower insert, and it will also make the corners and the edge more crisp, which will also help with the disappearing joint, but it is going to make the inserts a bit tighter. Probably not a bad thing.

In other words, we are not really going to end up with much more surface on the upper face of the lower insert. (I guess I could have just said that and avoided much of this post.)