LAGUNA SECA -SCCA ITE / American V8 supercar race this saturday 6.8.13
06-13-2013, 04:23 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The pass at 5:44 is legit.
He left room to BE passed, and left racing room as well...but failed to account for what you must expect in a late inside pass at an apex..that the passing car (who has right to be there in this case) can either define ANY point to actually turn that they WANT to, or..may push a little. Same result if you don't plan for it.
If you don't wanna be passed somewhere, defend it. Bob screwed up.
The passing car didn't push anyone anywhere, Bob in the RX7 reacted to it quite well, he knew he was there...the RX7 didn't even own the corner as they went into it.
The honda did push thru the turn some when it bounced thru the apex, but go to your CCR, figure 12, page 118 or so.
There was no driving in any pit lane in that pass either. Two wheels on the racing surface is "on course" and legal to pass with.
Even if there was contact..the RX7 would have still been at fault.
Was there another timecode
He left room to BE passed, and left racing room as well...but failed to account for what you must expect in a late inside pass at an apex..that the passing car (who has right to be there in this case) can either define ANY point to actually turn that they WANT to, or..may push a little. Same result if you don't plan for it.
If you don't wanna be passed somewhere, defend it. Bob screwed up.
The passing car didn't push anyone anywhere, Bob in the RX7 reacted to it quite well, he knew he was there...the RX7 didn't even own the corner as they went into it.
The honda did push thru the turn some when it bounced thru the apex, but go to your CCR, figure 12, page 118 or so.
There was no driving in any pit lane in that pass either. Two wheels on the racing surface is "on course" and legal to pass with.
Even if there was contact..the RX7 would have still been at fault.
Was there another timecode
Ill have to review..................................stand by!
06-13-2013, 04:30 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
Bob rocks.
However, not infallible.
Caught him in a yellow flag violation a few events ago.
And he let himself get passed by a car that had a faster run at the turn...
However, not infallible.
Caught him in a yellow flag violation a few events ago.
And he let himself get passed by a car that had a faster run at the turn...
06-13-2013, 04:33 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
06-13-2013, 04:42 AM
#50
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
You gotta be kidding.....the RSX pushed a stupid pass in PIT LANE.....then understeered wide and FORCED the RX7 off track.....no way...you are wrong
If an RD needed any more info...just watch the stupid blocking moves he made earlier......I have no doubts there were a "few" complaints about this driver
If an RD needed any more info...just watch the stupid blocking moves he made earlier......I have no doubts there were a "few" complaints about this driver
that's racing! no one at faultThe pass at 5:44 is legit.
He left room to BE passed, and left racing room as well...but failed to account for what you must expect in a late inside pass at an apex..that the passing car (who has right to be there in this case) can either define ANY point to actually turn that they WANT to, or..may push a little. Same result if you don't plan for it.
If you don't wanna be passed somewhere, defend it. Bob screwed up.
The passing car didn't push anyone anywhere, Bob in the RX7 reacted to it quite well, he knew he was there...the RX7 didn't even own the corner as they went into it.
The honda did push thru the turn some when it bounced thru the apex, but go to your CCR, figure 12, page 118 or so.
There was no driving in any pit lane in that pass either. Two wheels on the racing surface is "on course" and legal to pass with.
Even if there was contact..the RX7 would have still been at fault.
Was there another timecode
He left room to BE passed, and left racing room as well...but failed to account for what you must expect in a late inside pass at an apex..that the passing car (who has right to be there in this case) can either define ANY point to actually turn that they WANT to, or..may push a little. Same result if you don't plan for it.
If you don't wanna be passed somewhere, defend it. Bob screwed up.
The passing car didn't push anyone anywhere, Bob in the RX7 reacted to it quite well, he knew he was there...the RX7 didn't even own the corner as they went into it.
The honda did push thru the turn some when it bounced thru the apex, but go to your CCR, figure 12, page 118 or so.
There was no driving in any pit lane in that pass either. Two wheels on the racing surface is "on course" and legal to pass with.
Even if there was contact..the RX7 would have still been at fault.
Was there another timecode
Race much?
If so, what race organization says you have to let someone by, just because you have to be nice..even if no rule says you have to.
Racing is about exploring weakness and taking advantage of it.
The GOOD racers, know the rules like the back of their eyelids..and will exploit them cleanly.
That was done here.
This isn't HPDE. I've been clear on here about the subtle differences between a track day and a race (in any organization), this is one of them.
If so, what race organization says you have to let someone by, just because you have to be nice..even if no rule says you have to.
Racing is about exploring weakness and taking advantage of it.
The GOOD racers, know the rules like the back of their eyelids..and will exploit them cleanly.
That was done here.
This isn't HPDE. I've been clear on here about the subtle differences between a track day and a race (in any organization), this is one of them.
sure for club, this is aggressive driving, but its not a real "dick" move to drive narrow. He kind of drives two moves going up to 6, but its not really obvious. sure, driving against him you would be swearing at him but there really wouldn't be any infraction. that's some good old fashion racing!
06-13-2013, 04:55 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
he left a slight door open and let him on the inside and could have driven him into the tires, but didn't. however, on the exit, the RSX , being door to door, didn't have the right to push the RX to the sand.. great job by Bob to recover, because the sand is pretty deep right off the astro turf
That's legal Mark. The NASA and SCCA CCR's agree on all passing rules -and- passing violations except in one situation, and this wasn't that one.
The only possible infraction here would have been Bob coming into contact with the Honda..he didnt, so..no harm done.
Bob assumed, Bob had to drive off because of that poor assumption of what the passing car was going to do.
not major infractions . as Speedtoys says, its racing, not DE. he left an opening and it got exploited. he had too much speed to not exit and use ALL the track. Bob did a great job staying off his door. remember I did this with rylan at Thunderhill and had a door on him, and still he didn't back off. on the exit, we didn't have sand, but tires and I ended up exchanging donuts with him. that's racing! no one at fault
Yep, that's the truth!
Yep, this is club racing at its best. and if it was pro, bobcat would have taken him out a lap earlier, trust me.
sure for club, this is aggressive driving, but its not a real "dick" move to drive narrow. He kind of drives two moves going up to 6, but its not really obvious. sure, driving against him you would be swearing at him but there really wouldn't be any infraction. that's some good old fashion racing!
that's racing! no one at faultYep, that's the truth!
Yep, this is club racing at its best. and if it was pro, bobcat would have taken him out a lap earlier, trust me.
sure for club, this is aggressive driving, but its not a real "dick" move to drive narrow. He kind of drives two moves going up to 6, but its not really obvious. sure, driving against him you would be swearing at him but there really wouldn't be any infraction. that's some good old fashion racing!
I raced against bob for years in RX7s. Nothing that ever happened out there, did more than leave you smiling the whole time.
He was the ONLY car I ever towed off track as fast as I could drive the truck with him on the rope, too...because I could trust him to do it right. (Half of the people out there have no idea how to be flat towed)
06-13-2013, 05:03 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The passing car on the inside can choose ANY point he wants to begin his turn and pick his own line including driving straight off the track.
That's legal Mark. The NASA and SCCA CCR's agree on all passing rules -and- passing violations except in one situation, and this wasn't that one.
The only possible infraction here would have been Bob coming into contact with the Honda..he didnt, so..no harm done.
Bob assumed, Bob had to drive off because of that poor assumption of what the passing car was going to do.
I raced against bob for years in RX7s. Nothing that ever happened out there, did more than leave you smiling the whole time.
He was the ONLY car I ever towed off track as fast as I could drive the truck with him on the rope, too...because I could trust him to do it right. (Half of the people out there have no idea how to be flat towed)
That's legal Mark. The NASA and SCCA CCR's agree on all passing rules -and- passing violations except in one situation, and this wasn't that one.
The only possible infraction here would have been Bob coming into contact with the Honda..he didnt, so..no harm done.
Bob assumed, Bob had to drive off because of that poor assumption of what the passing car was going to do.
I raced against bob for years in RX7s. Nothing that ever happened out there, did more than leave you smiling the whole time.
He was the ONLY car I ever towed off track as fast as I could drive the truck with him on the rope, too...because I could trust him to do it right. (Half of the people out there have no idea how to be flat towed)
06-13-2013, 05:05 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
also , my incident with rylan had me (the inside car) ahead of the out side car , going into the turn.
its why it was reviewed and analyzed by the officials and determined there was no fault.
Ive raced with Bob for years too, and we have exchanged paint a few times. (mainly him bump drafting on me) Yes, he does leave you smiling!
its why it was reviewed and analyzed by the officials and determined there was no fault.
Ive raced with Bob for years too, and we have exchanged paint a few times. (mainly him bump drafting on me)
Yes, he does leave you smiling!
06-13-2013, 08:36 PM
#56
Race Director
The RSX was blocking earlier in the video too....mostly against Rylan..... The pass Bob made at about 5:22.....where the RSX made a quick move to the outside (line)....I'd say he WASN'T "letting" bob go...he was jumping to the line so Bob couldn't.....did you watch the 1st 5 minutes....he blocked Rylan lots of times..... Why do I say this....WHY WOULD HE let bob by....then push that aggressive pass later.....that makes NO SENSE...he pushed that aggressive move because his "block" didn't work and he was pissed... I do it in lemons all the time...fake inside and jump outside...sure I am not a veteran racer (since lemons doesn't count) you let a guy by & two turns later pull a d!ck move to pass him back....think about it....the RSX KNEW he would be slow in the turn, which hurts his straight away speed.... His only chance was to push Bob off to make the pass....sure it might be the "rules" but its still a d!ck move... Of course Bob could have easily shut the door to the inside too.... In my world (law enforcement) we call that "both at fault"....Bob should have shut the door and d!ck boy (always a honda BTW) was too aggressive...
Sure its racing and not DE....ya ya ya I get it....but its CLUB racing...there is no $$$ involved, we all are amateurs and have to pay to fix our own cars....come on...
Sure its racing and not DE....ya ya ya I get it....but its CLUB racing...there is no $$$ involved, we all are amateurs and have to pay to fix our own cars....come on...
06-14-2013, 02:09 AM
#57
The RSX was blocking earlier in the video too....mostly against Rylan..... The pass Bob made at about 5:22.....where the RSX made a quick move to the outside (line)....I'd say he WASN'T "letting" bob go...he was jumping to the line so Bob couldn't.....did you watch the 1st 5 minutes....he blocked Rylan lots of times..... Why do I say this....WHY WOULD HE let bob by....then push that aggressive pass later.....that makes NO SENSE...he pushed that aggressive move because his "block" didn't work and he was pissed... I do it in lemons all the time...fake inside and jump outside...sure I am not a veteran racer (since lemons doesn't count) you let a guy by & two turns later pull a d!ck move to pass him back....think about it....the RSX KNEW he would be slow in the turn, which hurts his straight away speed.... His only chance was to push Bob off to make the pass....sure it might be the "rules" but its still a d!ck move... Of course Bob could have easily shut the door to the inside too.... In my world (law enforcement) we call that "both at fault"....Bob should have shut the door and d!ck boy (always a honda BTW) was too aggressive...
Sure its racing and not DE....ya ya ya I get it....but its CLUB racing...there is no $$$ involved, we all are amateurs and have to pay to fix our own cars....come on...
Sure its racing and not DE....ya ya ya I get it....but its CLUB racing...there is no $$$ involved, we all are amateurs and have to pay to fix our own cars....come on...
RX7 was not going to come close to passing on the outside so I repeat that he was obviously let by with the expectation that they would be dicing the rest of the race.
When Bob did not leave a similar passing opportunity he was pushed aside.
Well deserved outcome.
tino
06-14-2013, 02:28 AM
#58
Rennlist Member
The RSX was blocking earlier in the video too....mostly against Rylan..... The pass Bob made at about 5:22.....where the RSX made a quick move to the outside (line)....I'd say he WASN'T "letting" bob go...he was jumping to the line so Bob couldn't.....did you watch the 1st 5 minutes....he blocked Rylan lots of times..... Why do I say this....WHY WOULD HE let bob by....then push that aggressive pass later.....that makes NO SENSE...he pushed that aggressive move because his "block" didn't work and he was pissed... I do it in lemons all the time...fake inside and jump outside...sure I am not a veteran racer (since lemons doesn't count) you let a guy by & two turns later pull a d!ck move to pass him back....think about it....the RSX KNEW he would be slow in the turn, which hurts his straight away speed.... His only chance was to push Bob off to make the pass....sure it might be the "rules" but its still a d!ck move... Of course Bob could have easily shut the door to the inside too.... In my world (law enforcement) we call that "both at fault"....Bob should have shut the door and d!ck boy (always a honda BTW) was too aggressive...
Sure its racing and not DE....ya ya ya I get it....but its CLUB racing...there is no $$$ involved, we all are amateurs and have to pay to fix our own cars....come on...
Sure its racing and not DE....ya ya ya I get it....but its CLUB racing...there is no $$$ involved, we all are amateurs and have to pay to fix our own cars....come on...
Im unclear on where you see wrong in this video, it was exciting clean, legal, gentlemanly racing.
Bob was not pushed off. Bob _****ed up_ and didnt see that coming.
The right thing would have been to pull out, and turn down inside of the late apexing honda..but Bob did not choose to do that.
Im not sure what you are expecting to hear, but you'd hear these things from me at a NASA event, which is only me pointing to the CCR which defines both line and driver conduct. None were crossed here.
No dick move was made. A weakness was exploited. Someone got schooled. Cleanly.
But I suppose that is simple point of view. Its a dick move if it was on you, it was good clean racing otherwise.
Pre judging your competition is gonna hurt ya later. I hear it coming when E30s have to run with USTCC, and _inevitably_ there are a number of on track issues between the two groups, that are 99% E30 faults because "Here come those dick Hondas.." and it colors their on track judgement.
I'm not complaining to ya Brian, I'm teaching to you. I'm the guy that literally sees it all, hears it all, and some days can tell you what mistake which driver will make depending which way the wind blows. Don't become a predictable racer personality...become a _good racer_.
06-14-2013, 01:57 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
don't think there was any blocking as well, as there really wasn't any "two move" straights. But, it was more like 1.5 moves once or twice. so subtle, I would only call that good, exciting racing. I don't think bob would have complained at all. he didn't mention anything to me after that race either.