Purists who hate the chevy conversion.... this car is legit.
11-05-2012, 01:05 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I am going to ask the unmentionable.... Renegade Hybrid?
I just got my 928, and I am thinking that all the work and money I may have to put into the motor of my 1980 928 US to make 200+ HP may not be worth it.
I can buy a full install kit for under 3k and build a chevy 350 v8 with 400+ hp for under 3 grand.
I saw a video of one of these cars, and it actually sounded really good. would doing this get me shunned in the community?
I can buy a full install kit for under 3k and build a chevy 350 v8 with 400+ hp for under 3 grand.
I saw a video of one of these cars, and it actually sounded really good. would doing this get me shunned in the community?
11-05-2012, 01:09 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
If you want to go the Chevy route and have everything properly work, and have someone else do the job plan on spending around $30,000.
Your car should put down around 200 at the wheels right now......
Your car should put down around 200 at the wheels right now......
11-05-2012, 01:34 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think that I can put the chevy motor and the kit in myself without issue. it eliminates a good deal of the electrical complications of the car. The ac system for the chevy will attach to the porsche lines, and they make adapters for all the porsche gauges to work as well.
I built an AC cobra kit car a few years ago. It was challenging, but I got it finished and everything worked nicely. The wiring harness was the only real PIA.
if I did the conversion, I dont think I would do a Fuel injected motor.
The renegade conversion with all the extras is under 4 grand. A very good high powered chevy 350 (or stroked 383), cammed and balanced and forged can be built for about 4k as well.
As for my tranny, you are correct sort of. I did see a video the guy made of him driving the car. Since he only owned the car for a few months, I can assume that the tranny is in the same condition. I could be wrong however... he could have blown it since then. I doubt it, but you never know.
I spoke to the people at renegade, and they told me the 5 spd can handle 500 hp, and the auto more like 400. So as long as I dont build a monster motor, I should be ok.
I think I can get the whole project done for 10k or less.
After talking to the engineers at Renegade, they told me that putting a 350 into a 928 isnt that difficult at all, if you are familiar with motor swapping, which I am. the motor in my mustang has been in and out 5 times. I already have a full set of air tools and an engine hoist.
Are there any other snafus that you know of that I am over looking?
I built an AC cobra kit car a few years ago. It was challenging, but I got it finished and everything worked nicely. The wiring harness was the only real PIA.
if I did the conversion, I dont think I would do a Fuel injected motor.
The renegade conversion with all the extras is under 4 grand. A very good high powered chevy 350 (or stroked 383), cammed and balanced and forged can be built for about 4k as well.
As for my tranny, you are correct sort of. I did see a video the guy made of him driving the car. Since he only owned the car for a few months, I can assume that the tranny is in the same condition. I could be wrong however... he could have blown it since then. I doubt it, but you never know.
I spoke to the people at renegade, and they told me the 5 spd can handle 500 hp, and the auto more like 400. So as long as I dont build a monster motor, I should be ok.
I think I can get the whole project done for 10k or less.
After talking to the engineers at Renegade, they told me that putting a 350 into a 928 isnt that difficult at all, if you are familiar with motor swapping, which I am. the motor in my mustang has been in and out 5 times. I already have a full set of air tools and an engine hoist.
Are there any other snafus that you know of that I am over looking?
11-05-2012, 01:36 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I have always LOVED the 928. To me it is one ofthe most beautiful cars ever designed. If I could get chevy "reliability" inside the beauty of this car, I would be happy.
how expensive are 928 5 spds in good shape?
Trending Topics
11-05-2012, 02:57 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
FWIW, $6k+ then is your "contemplation" point, ie, if apples to apples 340whp is attainable via either platform. If yes, would you prefer to have it as original Porsche fuel-injected or hybrid Chevy carbureted.
$3k if you build the Chevy yourself is doable, but not if a kit motor. Don't forget the changes required plumbing/fueling the Chevy as well, included in the $3k target. As well, the Renegade kit gets you in the door, but they too expect you to need some addt'l pieces and apply "minor" fabrication adjustments. Good kit, but realistic expectations that $3k is not the ceiling for cost. Means you'll clearly be over the $6k mark.
$6k toward the stock engine means a little homework about cost, (1) to bring the engine up to maintenance appropriate and (2) investigate some forced induction options, which are readily available.
(1) Self-mechanic maintenance for ~$1500 will get you to appropriate up to date stock performance, barring any major issue of course.
(2) Talk to Carl and Murph about their SC kits, for output expectations vs- cost; you'll likely find they can get you to your 340whp target without drama, since their kits have many tested miles. Outside that you could look to a DIY setup like Imo000 here http://norcal928.org/DIYSC/index.htm or a rear turbo that others have successfully done. Just depends on you commitment level.
In the end, you'll achieve similar power output, but very different methods to get there. Both provide room for growth, although adaptability sticking with Porsche will be easier if you do grow.
I actually like some of Renegade's items, although it is far from a turn-key "kit" and if the stock Porsche engine is junk, the Chevy conversion is attractive. I actually have a friend that is in the middle of his Chevy conversion right now, although he's a pretty good fabricator, so obstacles don't really bother him and his motivation was block damage from TBF forcing him to start with a no-engine car.
You asked for input, so I'd say do some homework before traveling down the conversion path, so you make an informed decision. Part of the missing variable with this entire equation is that you're only addressing engine/power and there is still the rest of the car that will need maintenance to be enjoyable ... just means $6k is a bit misleading as the cost for admission, whereas total car maintenance allows you to enjoy it along the adventure, working with the stock platform of course.
Good luck.
$3k if you build the Chevy yourself is doable, but not if a kit motor. Don't forget the changes required plumbing/fueling the Chevy as well, included in the $3k target. As well, the Renegade kit gets you in the door, but they too expect you to need some addt'l pieces and apply "minor" fabrication adjustments. Good kit, but realistic expectations that $3k is not the ceiling for cost. Means you'll clearly be over the $6k mark.
$6k toward the stock engine means a little homework about cost, (1) to bring the engine up to maintenance appropriate and (2) investigate some forced induction options, which are readily available.
(1) Self-mechanic maintenance for ~$1500 will get you to appropriate up to date stock performance, barring any major issue of course.
(2) Talk to Carl and Murph about their SC kits, for output expectations vs- cost; you'll likely find they can get you to your 340whp target without drama, since their kits have many tested miles. Outside that you could look to a DIY setup like Imo000 here http://norcal928.org/DIYSC/index.htm or a rear turbo that others have successfully done. Just depends on you commitment level.
In the end, you'll achieve similar power output, but very different methods to get there. Both provide room for growth, although adaptability sticking with Porsche will be easier if you do grow.
I actually like some of Renegade's items, although it is far from a turn-key "kit" and if the stock Porsche engine is junk, the Chevy conversion is attractive. I actually have a friend that is in the middle of his Chevy conversion right now, although he's a pretty good fabricator, so obstacles don't really bother him and his motivation was block damage from TBF forcing him to start with a no-engine car.
You asked for input, so I'd say do some homework before traveling down the conversion path, so you make an informed decision. Part of the missing variable with this entire equation is that you're only addressing engine/power and there is still the rest of the car that will need maintenance to be enjoyable ... just means $6k is a bit misleading as the cost for admission, whereas total car maintenance allows you to enjoy it along the adventure, working with the stock platform of course.
Good luck.
11-05-2012, 03:07 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I totally see all of your points as valid.
the rengade kit is under 4 k with all the extras. This includes a new radiator. The company has been doing 928 chevy conversions for nearly 20 years. They have perfected it. All of their parts make it almost an "easy" swap. Their modified bell housing and other parts work flawlessly with the 928. You can use the stock gauges and almost everything else, and it requires little to no modification to anything. All the mods were done by building parts around the car. I have done a ton of research regarding this company. I originally talked to them almost 20 years ago when I was going to put a v8 into my 944 when I snapped a timing belt. The conversion for the 944 is a much more difficult job, and at the time way too much for me to take on.
The 928 conversion by comparison is much much smoother. I could buy a vette, but I am a die hard Ford guy. Just the thought of building a chevy ,motor makes my skin crawl, but it is the only option that Renegade offers, and I wouldnt even consider using any other conversion. These guys are head and shoulders above anyone else in this industry.
An s4 is a great car, but for 15k more I can buy a Ferrari and have the same level of expensive maintenance. The idea behind the Chevy conversion is (partially) knowing that any repairs from that point on are less expensive by far. Of course the tranny can fail, etc. But all in all, the majority of possible future issues are excluded by getting rid of the complexity of the 928 motor.
The basic kit for the automatic 928 is only 1400 bucks, with another 1200 for custom radiator and some other stuff that makes the job easier.
Once I have proof positive that my trans is in good shape, I am going to give some serious consideration into doing this.
What does a used 1980 928 motor sell for now a days? what would be a good selling price that would make a buyer happy.. as in what is a steal for one of these motors?
also, as I asked before, what does a good 5spd trans sell for used?
the rengade kit is under 4 k with all the extras. This includes a new radiator. The company has been doing 928 chevy conversions for nearly 20 years. They have perfected it. All of their parts make it almost an "easy" swap. Their modified bell housing and other parts work flawlessly with the 928. You can use the stock gauges and almost everything else, and it requires little to no modification to anything. All the mods were done by building parts around the car. I have done a ton of research regarding this company. I originally talked to them almost 20 years ago when I was going to put a v8 into my 944 when I snapped a timing belt. The conversion for the 944 is a much more difficult job, and at the time way too much for me to take on.
The 928 conversion by comparison is much much smoother. I could buy a vette, but I am a die hard Ford guy. Just the thought of building a chevy ,motor makes my skin crawl, but it is the only option that Renegade offers, and I wouldnt even consider using any other conversion. These guys are head and shoulders above anyone else in this industry.
An s4 is a great car, but for 15k more I can buy a Ferrari and have the same level of expensive maintenance. The idea behind the Chevy conversion is (partially) knowing that any repairs from that point on are less expensive by far. Of course the tranny can fail, etc. But all in all, the majority of possible future issues are excluded by getting rid of the complexity of the 928 motor.
The basic kit for the automatic 928 is only 1400 bucks, with another 1200 for custom radiator and some other stuff that makes the job easier.
Once I have proof positive that my trans is in good shape, I am going to give some serious consideration into doing this.
What does a used 1980 928 motor sell for now a days? what would be a good selling price that would make a buyer happy.. as in what is a steal for one of these motors?
also, as I asked before, what does a good 5spd trans sell for used?
The following users liked this post:
Brian24 (03-02-2020)
11-05-2012, 03:10 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
also, from what I have investigated, an SC set up for the 928 motor (stage 2) is like 4k no? And I wouldnt boost a motor unless I knew for sure the internals were solid. In fact, personally, I dont think any non forged motor should be boosted over 7 psi. I know people do it all the time, but I dont agree with it.
With cams and heads, I can get a chevy 350 over 400 rwhp easily. And most of the parts are readily available used or rebuilt.
I definitely value the input you guys have given me, and I am open to as much info as I can get. Like I have said before, I am very much a noob when it comes to the 928.
With cams and heads, I can get a chevy 350 over 400 rwhp easily. And most of the parts are readily available used or rebuilt.
I definitely value the input you guys have given me, and I am open to as much info as I can get. Like I have said before, I am very much a noob when it comes to the 928.
11-05-2012, 03:32 PM
#13
Nordschleife Master
Your mind seems already made up.
And tuning has more to do with how many psi it will take and live than anything else.
But if you prefer carbs, then yes low boost is the only safe bet.
I doubt it can be done for 4k personally.
And tuning has more to do with how many psi it will take and live than anything else.
But if you prefer carbs, then yes low boost is the only safe bet.
I doubt it can be done for 4k personally.
11-05-2012, 04:20 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
sounds like the Renegade kit is your bet, to provide a lower cost <engine> parts replacement want.
Caveat Emptor - thoughts like "easy swap" and "work flawlessly" suggest an unrealistic expectation about the install, at least from one current experience with the Renegade kit thus far. Really good kit, but mechanical finesse and some "hmmm that doesn't do what they said it would" troubleshooting is definitely required.
Agreed.
Caveat Emptor - thoughts like "easy swap" and "work flawlessly" suggest an unrealistic expectation about the install, at least from one current experience with the Renegade kit thus far. Really good kit, but mechanical finesse and some "hmmm that doesn't do what they said it would" troubleshooting is definitely required.
I doubt it can be done for 4k personally.
11-05-2012, 04:33 PM
#15
I don't think the Renegade is a bad way to go if you do all the work yourself and trust yourself to do it right. I also think though that finding a good S4 and then supercharging gets you a better car for the same money or less. Easier in the long run and I think most likely will hold value better over the years. If you want a great car already done for $25k there is a good one on Ebay right now. It is a GT SC done by Louis Ott.