Rear suspension carrier-damaged camber adjust area - Rennlist Discussion Forums
Rennlist Discussion Forums   classifieds | membership | rennlist | photo album    
sponsors | upload photo | chat    
 
Go Back   Rennlist Discussion Forums > Water Cooled Technical Discussion Areas > 928 Forum
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-14-2012, 10:18 PM   #1
ammonman
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
ammonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1,368
Default Rear suspension carrier-damaged camber adjust area

I am starting to order parts for my TT/TC and rear suspension refresh. This will also be a big trans refresh as my B3 clutches are just about gone so I might as well do the B2 piston, K1 spring, and primary pump re-seal.

I noticed that the bearing surface for the camber adjustment eccentric flanged bolt is damaged on the passenger side. Looks like someone tried to compensate for worn upper arm bushes by cranking hard on the eccentric bolts. Should I source a good used carrier or will renewing the upper arm bushes be enough to compensate for the crush damage to the adjuster bearing surface? I'll try and post some pics tomorrow.

Thanks

Mike
To remove this ad, register today or login if you already are registered!

__________________
1990 928 S4
Silver Metallic over Silver Grey
"The 928 is an almost poetic reaffirmation of Porsche's bedrock understanding and appreciation to the fundamental automotive verities. It is a sensational car. This is a new car. Not a rehash, not a copy of somebody elses successful theme, not a refined agglomeration of sedan components,..."

1998 Boxster
Arena Red over Savannah Beige

Last edited by ammonman; 04-14-2012 at 10:51 PM.
ammonman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2012, 10:23 PM   #2
Ducman82
Quacker McBoobs
Rennlist Member
 
Ducman82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Pedro CA
Posts: 5,208
Send a message via Skype™ to Ducman82
Default

any pictures?
__________________
81 928s comp 5 spd Black/Cork
Hybrid 5.0 Running MS3X in full sequential
LSD ,GTS brakes, Cup 4 Wheels Koni/Hypercoil kit
MSDS headers 3" Vband-304ss to magnaflow
Sharkwoofer, Budd leather, Pauly C' seats.
Ducman82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2012, 10:39 PM   #3
Bill Ball
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
Bill Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 18,048
Default

Yeah, pics. The toe adjustment is part of a cast aluminum bearing carrier on the front of the lower control arm. Is that what is damaged? The upper control arm bushings affect camber more than toe. They are usually distorted, making camber more negative so it's hard to get camber into the spec range. I have not seen them cause an issue with toe. They are easy to replace.
__________________
Bill

GP White '89 S4 - 275K carefree (well, almost) miles, creeping up slowly on 300K. Motor unopened and original TT bearings.
'87 rear resonators; '83 LSD; PKlamp on TT, Bilsteins, 2002 996 wheels; Momo Club 4 steering wheel; H4 Hi/Lo HID headlights; HID driving lights.

If you live in North or Central CA, join our group at Norcal928.org
Bill Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2012, 10:49 PM   #4
ammonman
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
ammonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1,368
Default

DOH Should be camber adjuster. Original post edited.
__________________
1990 928 S4
Silver Metallic over Silver Grey
"The 928 is an almost poetic reaffirmation of Porsche's bedrock understanding and appreciation to the fundamental automotive verities. It is a sensational car. This is a new car. Not a rehash, not a copy of somebody elses successful theme, not a refined agglomeration of sedan components,..."

1998 Boxster
Arena Red over Savannah Beige
ammonman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 12:20 AM   #5
Bill Ball
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
Bill Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 18,048
Default

What's damaged? Item 6 is the camber eccentric.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Bill

GP White '89 S4 - 275K carefree (well, almost) miles, creeping up slowly on 300K. Motor unopened and original TT bearings.
'87 rear resonators; '83 LSD; PKlamp on TT, Bilsteins, 2002 996 wheels; Momo Club 4 steering wheel; H4 Hi/Lo HID headlights; HID driving lights.

If you live in North or Central CA, join our group at Norcal928.org
Bill Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 12:30 AM   #6
ammonman
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
ammonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1,368
Default

Whats damaged is the surface on the suspension carrier (Item 1) that the outside diameter of the eccentric flange on the bolt bears on to adjust the bottom of the wheel in and out. Looks like someone was trying to get as much camber as possible to bring the alignment into spec and jammed the eccentric into the aluminum lip on the suspension carrier, cracking and deforming the bearing surface. I'll post a pic tomorrow.
__________________
1990 928 S4
Silver Metallic over Silver Grey
"The 928 is an almost poetic reaffirmation of Porsche's bedrock understanding and appreciation to the fundamental automotive verities. It is a sensational car. This is a new car. Not a rehash, not a copy of somebody elses successful theme, not a refined agglomeration of sedan components,..."

1998 Boxster
Arena Red over Savannah Beige
ammonman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 01:45 AM   #7
Mrmerlin
Petie3rd
Rennlist Member
 
Mrmerlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 16,934
Default

the usual failure in the lower cross member is the bolt not being torqued to the correct spec.
thus when the car is driven the eccentrics will slide in the slot and damage the walls of the eccentric edges.
refitting new upper control arm bushing will cause the camber to change as the top of the wheel will now be pushed outwards thus the lower adjustment will need to move inwards and the worn edges will usually not be sufficient to make this happen,
the one way to change this is to remove the load from the LCA and then make the adjustment then lower the car and rechek the numbers.
the other way is to replace the lower cross member with a good unit and possible replace the eccentric bolts and eccentrics as well
torque numbers for the rear LCA attach bolt are 140 ft/lbs for camber
the front LCA attach bolts are 82 ft/lbs these control toe
NOTE the front LCA attach bolts are not able to be torqued as the torque wrench wont fit on the nut
__________________


1988 S4 Elfenbein Perlglanz with a full Pearl Gray leather interior, Auto, Motorsport of Utah X pipe
1985 Euro 5 speed with big brakes Black/Black 16Valve

Past survivors sent to new happy owners
1986 5 speed Mossgruen,Brown
1986.5 Auto Meteor metallic/Tan
1984 Euro Auto, Grand Prix white/ Tan
Mrmerlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 02:58 AM   #8
Bill Ball
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
Bill Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 18,048
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ammonman View Post
Whats damaged is the surface on the suspension carrier (Item 1) that the outside diameter of the eccentric flange on the bolt bears on to adjust the bottom of the wheel in and out. Looks like someone was trying to get as much camber as possible to bring the alignment into spec and jammed the eccentric into the aluminum lip on the suspension carrier, cracking and deforming the bearing surface. I'll post a pic tomorrow.
That, you know, is the crossmember. I'd like to see the damage, and I would try some kind of repair, such as welding up the damage. Also, the damage may not be consequential if you can still lock the camber eccentric. It is quite common not to be able to get the camber to less than -1 degree. Replacing the upper control arm bushings usually helps.
__________________
Bill

GP White '89 S4 - 275K carefree (well, almost) miles, creeping up slowly on 300K. Motor unopened and original TT bearings.
'87 rear resonators; '83 LSD; PKlamp on TT, Bilsteins, 2002 996 wheels; Momo Club 4 steering wheel; H4 Hi/Lo HID headlights; HID driving lights.

If you live in North or Central CA, join our group at Norcal928.org
Bill Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 02:25 PM   #9
Mrmerlin
Petie3rd
Rennlist Member
 
Mrmerlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 16,934
Default

I have seen a few cars where this was an issue one of them was mine,
after getting a alignment,
when i got home the RR eccentric had chewed out the eccentric wall,
I jacked the car up reset the LCA to where it looked when it was initially adjusted,
I was watching the alignment and re torqued it.
To get things close you can use your eye,
when the car is on the ground and the suspension is settled the rear wheel should be straight up and down its pretty easy to see if its not
__________________


1988 S4 Elfenbein Perlglanz with a full Pearl Gray leather interior, Auto, Motorsport of Utah X pipe
1985 Euro 5 speed with big brakes Black/Black 16Valve

Past survivors sent to new happy owners
1986 5 speed Mossgruen,Brown
1986.5 Auto Meteor metallic/Tan
1984 Euro Auto, Grand Prix white/ Tan
Mrmerlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 06:35 PM   #10
ammonman
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
ammonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1,368
Default

Here's a pic of the damage.
Name:  IMAG0111.jpg
Views: 80
Size:  99.7 KB
__________________
1990 928 S4
Silver Metallic over Silver Grey
"The 928 is an almost poetic reaffirmation of Porsche's bedrock understanding and appreciation to the fundamental automotive verities. It is a sensational car. This is a new car. Not a rehash, not a copy of somebody elses successful theme, not a refined agglomeration of sedan components,..."

1998 Boxster
Arena Red over Savannah Beige
ammonman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 08:16 AM   #11
ammonman
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
ammonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1,368
Default

Any feedback on the damage in the pic above?
__________________
1990 928 S4
Silver Metallic over Silver Grey
"The 928 is an almost poetic reaffirmation of Porsche's bedrock understanding and appreciation to the fundamental automotive verities. It is a sensational car. This is a new car. Not a rehash, not a copy of somebody elses successful theme, not a refined agglomeration of sedan components,..."

1998 Boxster
Arena Red over Savannah Beige
ammonman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 10:54 AM   #12
Ducman82
Quacker McBoobs
Rennlist Member
 
Ducman82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Pedro CA
Posts: 5,208
Send a message via Skype™ to Ducman82
Default

i would say your good man. replace the bushings, and re install. if it really bothers you, weld it up, or get a new x-member
__________________
81 928s comp 5 spd Black/Cork
Hybrid 5.0 Running MS3X in full sequential
LSD ,GTS brakes, Cup 4 Wheels Koni/Hypercoil kit
MSDS headers 3" Vband-304ss to magnaflow
Sharkwoofer, Budd leather, Pauly C' seats.
Ducman82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 11:32 AM   #13
ammonman
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
ammonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1,368
Default

The cosmetics don't bother me. Just want to make sure I have enough adjustment after new upper arm bushings are installed.

Thanks
__________________
1990 928 S4
Silver Metallic over Silver Grey
"The 928 is an almost poetic reaffirmation of Porsche's bedrock understanding and appreciation to the fundamental automotive verities. It is a sensational car. This is a new car. Not a rehash, not a copy of somebody elses successful theme, not a refined agglomeration of sedan components,..."

1998 Boxster
Arena Red over Savannah Beige
ammonman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 11:48 AM   #14
Ducman82
Quacker McBoobs
Rennlist Member
 
Ducman82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Pedro CA
Posts: 5,208
Send a message via Skype™ to Ducman82
Default

you should be ok. but you won't really know till alignment time..
__________________
81 928s comp 5 spd Black/Cork
Hybrid 5.0 Running MS3X in full sequential
LSD ,GTS brakes, Cup 4 Wheels Koni/Hypercoil kit
MSDS headers 3" Vband-304ss to magnaflow
Sharkwoofer, Budd leather, Pauly C' seats.
Ducman82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 12:24 PM   #15
Tom in Austin
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Tom in Austin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas!
Posts: 2,524
Send a message via Yahoo to Tom in Austin
Default

When I changed upper arm bushings I got back about a half a degree of camber on each side. Hope that helps ...
__________________
- 1994 'Raspberry Red' GTS ... photographed by James Morrison, outfitted by Roger Tyson, powdercoated by Ben Genovese, updated by PorKen, maintained by Sean Ratts, detailed by Andy (Concours) Kay, X-Piped courtesy of "the Dude" ... what a car!
Tom in Austin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 12:24 PM
Rennlist



Paid Advertisement
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using upper dog bones to adjust rear camber GT2rainge 996 GT2/GT3 Forum 2 06-29-2014 07:03 AM
Using adjustable dog bones to adjust camber GT2rainge 997 GT2/GT3 Forum 9 06-24-2014 01:09 PM
996 C2 rear controls arms and others Kepa 996 Forum 0 03-15-2014 06:53 AM
The most complete Poly Bushing Kits available for 924, 944 & 968 ideola 924/931/944/951/968 Forum 26 02-23-2013 01:55 PM
Should my car have eccentric bolts for camber adjustment? vespam5 964 Forum 10 07-22-2010 05:10 PM


Tags
2007, 928, adjust, adjustment, berkeley, camber, carrier, international, murano, nissan, parks, picture, powered, rear, recreation, suspension, vbulletin, wheel, worn

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

Join rennlist.com

All times are GMT -3. The time now is 08:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright ę 1998 - 2007 Rennlist.com

Advertise on Rennlist - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Jobs