FLUSH Center Console Development
11-16-2010, 12:51 AM
#301
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Your stereo will be eliminated in this conversion. It will be replaced by all of the entertainment stuff that is available in the new Double DIN Nav unit that you replace it with. It will have stereo and almost unlimited other stuff. I suggest that you do some shopping for a Pioneer, Kenwood, or Alpine Nav unit and see which one you like and which navigation system you might prefer. I am working with Pioneer units like the following:
Pioneer AVIC-x920bt
Pioneer AVIC-Z3
Pioneer AVIC-Z120bt
I wouldn't recommed anything older that the 920, although I also have a 910 I will probably put in one of my own conversions. There units are selling on eBay for around $500 to $900 new, depending.
Jerry Feather
Pioneer AVIC-x920bt
Pioneer AVIC-Z3
Pioneer AVIC-Z120bt
I wouldn't recommed anything older that the 920, although I also have a 910 I will probably put in one of my own conversions. There units are selling on eBay for around $500 to $900 new, depending.
Jerry Feather
11-17-2010, 09:58 PM
#304
Nordschleife Master
Will those gauge cups be available separately? Beautiful.
11-17-2010, 11:50 PM
#305
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I suppose it depends on what gauge, what finish and what size the "presentation" or face needs to be. I still have to fabricate backs for Jimmy's gauges and have the original lenses cut down and pressed in, if that is going to work. I suspect I am going to have to see if Prosport gauges will sell me some extra lenses in case whoever does that for me has some failures.
It took me right at two hours last nite to make two of these for Jimmy. I suspect that making the backs is going to take about 20 minutes to half an hour each, after I develop a little bit of tooling that will be needed.
With a little cost for material and who knows how much to have the lenses cut down and a little assembly time, I suspect that doing this on a one-off basis may not be cost effective. Nevertheless, if someone wants one or more and really needs the smaller display for a given application, then The answer is probably yes. I would need to know exactly what one might have in mind and then I would quote a price.
On the other hand, anyone with a lathe can make one or more of these.
Jerry Feather
It took me right at two hours last nite to make two of these for Jimmy. I suspect that making the backs is going to take about 20 minutes to half an hour each, after I develop a little bit of tooling that will be needed.
With a little cost for material and who knows how much to have the lenses cut down and a little assembly time, I suspect that doing this on a one-off basis may not be cost effective. Nevertheless, if someone wants one or more and really needs the smaller display for a given application, then The answer is probably yes. I would need to know exactly what one might have in mind and then I would quote a price.
On the other hand, anyone with a lathe can make one or more of these.
Jerry Feather
11-18-2010, 02:13 AM
#306
Nordschleife Master
I suppose it depends on what gauge, what finish and what size the "presentation" or face needs to be. I still have to fabricate backs for Jimmy's gauges and have the original lenses cut down and pressed in, if that is going to work. I suspect I am going to have to see if Prosport gauges will sell me some extra lenses in case whoever does that for me has some failures.
It took me right at two hours last nite to make two of these for Jimmy. I suspect that making the backs is going to take about 20 minutes to half an hour each, after I develop a little bit of tooling that will be needed.
With a little cost for material and who knows how much to have the lenses cut down and a little assembly time, I suspect that doing this on a one-off basis may not be cost effective. Nevertheless, if someone wants one or more and really needs the smaller display for a given application, then The answer is probably yes. I would need to know exactly what one might have in mind and then I would quote a price.
On the other hand, anyone with a lathe can make one or more of these.
Jerry Feather
It took me right at two hours last nite to make two of these for Jimmy. I suspect that making the backs is going to take about 20 minutes to half an hour each, after I develop a little bit of tooling that will be needed.
With a little cost for material and who knows how much to have the lenses cut down and a little assembly time, I suspect that doing this on a one-off basis may not be cost effective. Nevertheless, if someone wants one or more and really needs the smaller display for a given application, then The answer is probably yes. I would need to know exactly what one might have in mind and then I would quote a price.
On the other hand, anyone with a lathe can make one or more of these.
Jerry Feather
11-18-2010, 03:19 AM
#307
Nordschleife Master
I noticed the 3 gauges
Isnt there something now that can combine all that information plus a bunch more crap you wanna monitor in something smaller and more comprehensive?
The 3 round gauges have been in cars forever, isnt there something better? Seems like an antiquated means of measuring 3 small numbers
Isnt there something now that can combine all that information plus a bunch more crap you wanna monitor in something smaller and more comprehensive?
The 3 round gauges have been in cars forever, isnt there something better? Seems like an antiquated means of measuring 3 small numbers
11-18-2010, 09:49 AM
#308
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I noticed the 3 gauges
Isnt there something now that can combine all that information plus a bunch more crap you wanna monitor in something smaller and more comprehensive?
The 3 round gauges have been in cars forever, isnt there something better? Seems like an antiquated means of measuring 3 small numbers
Isnt there something now that can combine all that information plus a bunch more crap you wanna monitor in something smaller and more comprehensive?
The 3 round gauges have been in cars forever, isnt there something better? Seems like an antiquated means of measuring 3 small numbers
On the other hand it kind of sounds like you are asking if I or someone on here can come up with something. If so, that is beyond my capabilities. I do think it is touching on Hans' capabilities; so if he were to come up with something, perhaps similar to his lower switch module, it could be incorporated in my FLUSH Conversion development. Maybe I would have to design and fab a case for it.
Right now, if I am going to offer gauges in either of the two versions of my project, they are going to have to be a little different for each.
Briefly, in the Auto version, they will likely be arranged as with Jimmy's, in a row down the right. For the Manual version they will likely be arranged across the top where the extra space is located, much as with the original clock panel. In the Auto Version they will reduce in size; and in the manual they may be the same size or the clock may be slightly larger, especially if I continue to emphasize the Prosport Gauges, in which case the clock case needs to be slightly larger than I will want to make the others. Is that confusing enough?
Thanks for your interest. This might be "feature creep" but I don't think it is going to hold up the final development. Actually the thing that I am held up by right now is taking the time and effort to get the console out of my car for further development. Perhaps this weekend.
Jerry Feather
11-18-2010, 07:16 PM
#309
will the top "double din, hvac, vent" panel be able to get the leather treatment as well? do we send in our vents for trimming? i cant wait till you are ready for production! i have $$$$$ burning a hole in my pocket waiting for this!
11-18-2010, 07:59 PM
#310
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
When I discovered that I would be able to make new instrument cases for the Prosport gauges for those perhaps few who want instruments in the lower trim piece, even the clock, which is going to be somewhat redundant with the NAV unit, it kind of solved one of my concerns about this project; and that was what am I going to do when someone wants some or any instruments? I think that is solved for now.
I do still have an issue about how to make this conversion available. At one point I suggested that I would simply have to do all of them for you on a custom basis. That didn't seem to go over very well. The reason I was leaning in that direction was just what you are asking about now. That is, what to do with the air vent which is going to have to be removed, and how is that going to happen.
The first part of Ducman's question about the leather on the upper insert is that, yes, it will be covered with leather. Go back to the post I made some time ago about what that will look like when I provided pictures of a prototype with tan leather on both pieces. I didn't have that one fully assembled because I had the openings too tight. I have opened them up some, but have not covered another one with leather yet.
Now, the main question is about how to relocate the air vent from the console to the upper trim piece. I think that even with the leather covering on the upper insert the back surface of that piece is going to be left open so that the air vent can be cut out in-the-field and then glued into the insert. I expect to provide some direction about how and where to cut the vent out and how to trim it to fit. How to deal with the early cars that have a vacuum actuator associated with the air vent is going to be another issue. I am right now trying to develop some way to eliminate the original vacuum actuator and replace it with another smaller one out of the way and perhaps operating the flapper with some kind of bell crank to change the direction of pull so the actuator is out of the way of the NAV unit.
I don't know when the factory eliminated the vacuum actuator. I have one I am working with now that is an 81 Euro.
One possibility may be to replace the air vent with the later version, whenever that came into production, but I don't know what kind of electrical issues that will raise; nor about the availability of later consoles to cannibalize the air vent out of. Or, maybe I can make the parts necessary to operate the older air vents with the existing lever which now simply operates a switch.
Jerry Feather
I do still have an issue about how to make this conversion available. At one point I suggested that I would simply have to do all of them for you on a custom basis. That didn't seem to go over very well. The reason I was leaning in that direction was just what you are asking about now. That is, what to do with the air vent which is going to have to be removed, and how is that going to happen.
The first part of Ducman's question about the leather on the upper insert is that, yes, it will be covered with leather. Go back to the post I made some time ago about what that will look like when I provided pictures of a prototype with tan leather on both pieces. I didn't have that one fully assembled because I had the openings too tight. I have opened them up some, but have not covered another one with leather yet.
Now, the main question is about how to relocate the air vent from the console to the upper trim piece. I think that even with the leather covering on the upper insert the back surface of that piece is going to be left open so that the air vent can be cut out in-the-field and then glued into the insert. I expect to provide some direction about how and where to cut the vent out and how to trim it to fit. How to deal with the early cars that have a vacuum actuator associated with the air vent is going to be another issue. I am right now trying to develop some way to eliminate the original vacuum actuator and replace it with another smaller one out of the way and perhaps operating the flapper with some kind of bell crank to change the direction of pull so the actuator is out of the way of the NAV unit.
I don't know when the factory eliminated the vacuum actuator. I have one I am working with now that is an 81 Euro.
One possibility may be to replace the air vent with the later version, whenever that came into production, but I don't know what kind of electrical issues that will raise; nor about the availability of later consoles to cannibalize the air vent out of. Or, maybe I can make the parts necessary to operate the older air vents with the existing lever which now simply operates a switch.
Jerry Feather
11-18-2010, 08:23 PM
#311
if you look at my posted picture, with the nave unit placed as is, there is no problems with the vacuum actuator. the early cars vacuum lines will be simple to extend if needed. the only thing that i can think of that will be a fun thing to play with is the cable for the vent door. kind of like a throttle cable, so may be just cut a longer one.
11-18-2010, 08:47 PM
#312
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks, Ducman, for the pictures. They really tell a lot.
If you are going to be interested in the system that If am developing for your project here is what you are going to do.
First, your will be cutting the air vent out of the console, because it will get mounted in the upper insert that I am going to be making. Then you will be having me trim the vent grill down on the ends in the trim gig I have made so it provides some reveal around the edges when it is mounted in the insert.
Next, you will be remounting the HVAC units in the upper insert down quite a bit from where they are now in the console. When those two events take place there is going to be space in the middle of the insert to remount your double din unit. It is going to be mounted in the console in some kind of set-up that your or I are going to have to devise.
Finally, in regard to the lower trim piece I am going to make, I suggest that you look for some better looking instruments that 2 1/16. They are just too big for this conversion, although they might actually fit. I suggest you look at the 1 7/8 inch round instruments that I am talking Jimmy out of using. They wont fit in the automatic trim piece, but will in the 5 speed trim piece. Even those are a little gaudy, for my taste, but a lot better than 2 1/16.
Even with any of these round instruments, there is going to be some fudging in regard to mounting them since they are going to be put into a surface that has quite a bit of curvature in it--moreso than most of you guys seem to think.
When all of the mounting is determined, then the insert and trim, piece will need to be covered in leather. Is your console color black or dark blue? It looks dark blue in the pictures, but that is sometimes just the image.
Just food for thought.
Jerry Feather
If you are going to be interested in the system that If am developing for your project here is what you are going to do.
First, your will be cutting the air vent out of the console, because it will get mounted in the upper insert that I am going to be making. Then you will be having me trim the vent grill down on the ends in the trim gig I have made so it provides some reveal around the edges when it is mounted in the insert.
Next, you will be remounting the HVAC units in the upper insert down quite a bit from where they are now in the console. When those two events take place there is going to be space in the middle of the insert to remount your double din unit. It is going to be mounted in the console in some kind of set-up that your or I are going to have to devise.
Finally, in regard to the lower trim piece I am going to make, I suggest that you look for some better looking instruments that 2 1/16. They are just too big for this conversion, although they might actually fit. I suggest you look at the 1 7/8 inch round instruments that I am talking Jimmy out of using. They wont fit in the automatic trim piece, but will in the 5 speed trim piece. Even those are a little gaudy, for my taste, but a lot better than 2 1/16.
Even with any of these round instruments, there is going to be some fudging in regard to mounting them since they are going to be put into a surface that has quite a bit of curvature in it--moreso than most of you guys seem to think.
When all of the mounting is determined, then the insert and trim, piece will need to be covered in leather. Is your console color black or dark blue? It looks dark blue in the pictures, but that is sometimes just the image.
Just food for thought.
Jerry Feather
I see that you do not have the vacuum actuator that is in the 81 console I am working with. I don't know what you are referring to as the cable to be extended.
11-18-2010, 11:06 PM
#313
Rennlist Member
I noticed the 3 gauges
Isnt there something now that can combine all that information plus a bunch more crap you wanna monitor in something smaller and more comprehensive?
The 3 round gauges have been in cars forever, isnt there something better? Seems like an antiquated means of measuring 3 small numbers
Isnt there something now that can combine all that information plus a bunch more crap you wanna monitor in something smaller and more comprehensive?
The 3 round gauges have been in cars forever, isnt there something better? Seems like an antiquated means of measuring 3 small numbers
Ive always wanted something like this in a car..
http://www.jpinstruments.com/edm_930.html
You want data..I got yer data _riight heere_....
11-19-2010, 12:01 AM
#314
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Wow, Gus. That certainly has a lot of stuff to watch. Actually I have one of their smaller engine monitor units in my airplane. I wonder where we could put something like the whole unit in this flush conversion?
Now, I suppose we could get someone to take the electronics to a much higher level so all we had to do is think of the gear we want and leave the shifters completely out. Short of that, at least for the auto version, I'll bet we could configure the gear selelction into a series of buttons and put them in the center of the steering wheel. I'm not sure what to do with the manual shifter except, again, just rig it so you would only have to think of the gear you want. In either case there would then be ample room in the lower trim piece for this JPI unit.
Now, I suppose we could get someone to take the electronics to a much higher level so all we had to do is think of the gear we want and leave the shifters completely out. Short of that, at least for the auto version, I'll bet we could configure the gear selelction into a series of buttons and put them in the center of the steering wheel. I'm not sure what to do with the manual shifter except, again, just rig it so you would only have to think of the gear you want. In either case there would then be ample room in the lower trim piece for this JPI unit.
