Mogans

I've got an '81 928 (USA spec) with a little over 100,000 miles on it. I was wondering how complicated it would be to put a Euro S engine in my car, and if that alone would increase the horsepower to the 300 range of a Euro 928. Is it pretty straightforward or would there be a lot of complementary parts/labour necessary in order to complete the swap and achieve the hp gains? Would there be emmissions issues created by the Euro engine in a Stateside car? Any thoughts would be appreciated. thanks.

Jim V

The engine would drop in and bolt up no prob,
you may need the wiring harness but I think
this could be adapted from the US version as
well as emmissions plumbing.
What would need to be changed is the fuel lines,accumulator,pump from the Euro if it were a CIS equipped;forward harness and computer if it were the dual distributor variety.
In order to make the full power you'd need to switch from the 2-into-1 exhaust from the
US spec car to a factory dual or aftermarket
system.
As far as emissions proper tuning and good
cats should do the job.

Mogans

Thanks a lot for the responses. If I decide to move forward I'll post my results.

Mogans

Well, there's nothing wrong with it, just seems like there isn't a lot of umphhhh behind it. I was hoping that the new engine would give me some more power. I've got a Passat 6 cylinder and it feels like it has more zip than my 928. You've got an '81 Snowball, what do you think?

Tabor

Personally, I would go get a 928 S4 engine. If I had the money I would stroke it to 6.0L while I was at it.

Later I would do some head work.

I'm good at thinking about things I will never actually do!

Mogans

Yeah, Tabor, you probably make a good point when you talk about things you'll never do, (or perhaps things you shouldn't do!). The problem is I'm kind of attached to this car, so there's a temptation to upgrade it instead of replacing it. The other option I'm looking at is buying a european 928 (I'm living in Europe now, although the '81 lives in the States) but that means having to go through the expense and unknowns of modifying it to meet US safety/emmissions standards when I come back home. I'll probably go back and forth on this about a hundred times before doing anything.

Tabor

I wasn't taking about replacing it. I was talking about putting a 928S4 engine in it (which, BTW is what I would do if I was attached to the car).

What I probably wouldn't do is stroke the 928 S4 engine to 6L.

In the Devek article in Excellence a few months ago they suggested this, depending on how much performance you wanted because you could only get so much performance out of the 2-valve platform. At least, I think that is what they said.

Mogans

I let my subscription to Exellence run out, missed the Devek article, but I'll track it down, thanks for mentioning it!

Richard S

Putting a Euro S engine in a US car is possible, but keep in mind there are different Euro engines. 1980 to 1983 Euro S engines were CIS fuel injected, 1984 and 1985 Euro S were LH injected. I put an 84 Euro S with LH injection in my 1980 US 928, so I don't know what is required/different in installing a CIS engine. Some things to consider are: Motor mounts...if you want to upgrade early car to later style mounts you will have to replace crossmember (not really a big deal, i did it). Wiring...get cozy with the factory wiring diagrams, add LH relay, elec. ign. relay, ignitors, additional coil, replace L injection brain with LH brains, etc, etc. Exhaust system...no problems, just bolt up. Understand that the Euro motors didn't have O2 sensors and the computer wasn't wired for one. If your state requires strict emissions testing you may have to add a little computer to integrate an O2 sensor to the Euro computer. Neutronics made the box that came with my engine.
Don't try to import a car from Europe to US...I've read nothing but horror stories, and the cost would kill you. Find a car that has already been federalized and just use that engine.
Hope this helps. I'm sure I forgot many things, but if you're really interested in more details just e-mail me anytime.
Richard
sanders@ainet.com
79 A/T
80 5 spd with 84 Euro S motor

Jim Nowak

I have experience in the two-valve engine performance build-ups and modifications.
1. Cheapest route: Buy complete Euro S motor and headers and bolt it in to your car and fabricate connection to your catalitic converter if they smog test.
2. Have someone custom build a stroker for your car and add the euro s heads and intake you should have great returs with this set-up.
3. Do an engine conversion to s4(87-) you will need s4 engine management and lots of time to adapt to your car.
3. If you have a spare $15K+ you can have a complete two-valve race motor and custom programable electronic engine management.

I have a '79 928 with 944 heads, s4 block, J&E coated pistons(compatable with alusil bore), 5.4L(104 mm bore), Devek cams, Devek headers, Extrued Honed euro s intake, re-drilled crank(high speed oiling fix), Devek radiator, Electromotive engine management, etc., etc..

Do your research before you decide which direction to go. Start your search at 928s4vr.com and check out all your potential choices.

Jim

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Jim,

Did you spend $15k building your motor? If so, what are the dyno results? What would you have done differently in retrospect?

Thanks,
Stan (scheming for a winter motor build project)

John N

Jim,
What kind of horsepower are you making with that set-up? Also, I have an 84 Euro S, 5spd with headers and dual exhaust and I'm looking to add more power. What would you recommend as THE NEXT STEP?

Jim Nowak

Stan,

I am waiting for intake to get back from Extrued Hone. Once I get intake back the Electromotive engine management system will go on the intake. My mechanic expects to see in excess of 340hp to the rear wheels, but we will see after I dyno the car. I've heard of a euro s with headers and no other modifications putting 300 hp to the rear wheels so my estimate may be conservative.
I really don't want to discuss the exact dollar amount I spent on my R&D efforts to get the engine to this level. Let's just say, I've been eating Ramen soup for dinner the last few years.

John,

I would recommend to a Euro s owner to stroke the engine and ditch the Porsche injection. The most cost effective solution is to add a supercharger. I'm planning on adding a supercharger later and the Electromotive system is easily adaptable by adding a 2 bar MAP sensor.

Just a few thoughts, I'm sure everybody will not agree, but I hope I helped.

Jim Nowak

Jim Nowak

Snowball,

The Ferrari Mondial you are refering to is a Mondial 3.2(270 hp 1985-1989), but your numbers are suspect. The Mondial 3.2 has a top speed of 148mph and a 0-60 mph of 6.3 seconds. Not exactly a barn burner compared to a 928 and especially not for $35K. You would have to look to a newer Mondial T(300hp 1989-1992) to have a top end that compares with a stock 1980 euro s(155mph) and by the time the Mondial T was manufactured the 928 had a top speed over 168 mph. Not to mention, Ferarri's are not cheap to keep running and are not the most reliable cars on the road. Yes, I agree they do look very nice.

Jim Nowak

Carlos

Snowball you got them again. Guys IMHO you would have to be on the crack pipe to spend in excess of $15K for a modest performance increase, on a car worth a third of that.

When the buzz wears off call Rod Simpson & buy a SB Chevy conversion. Install a good stout small block (500 HP) and go hunt for some turbos, Ferraris, Z06 vettes or whatever else you run across. With the change you have left over, import 2 or 3 of those hot looking Russian women who want to come to the USA.
My S4 runs fine but trust me there is a small block in its future.