She gave up on her 928...
07-29-2006, 03:36 AM
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She gave up on her 928...
Our money pit adventure with 928s began with my wife purchasing an 84 automatic. It was the first car with under 400 cid she had bought in over 3 decades and went European probably on my urging. Hell would freeze over before she'd drive a 911 6 cylinder.
It is not an ordinary 928. It has an S4 style body kit (in fiberglass), nicely molded in rocker panel skirts, an S5 wing, Euro (large) headlights, BBS wheels and is painted in Covette yellow. She was very fond of it and is a 928ers who actually does know what its top speed is - and fairly frequently so - when it is driveable.
Quickly, she bought me a really nice 81 green 5 speed with the Porsche optional Sport package option.
Within 12 months, we had 6 928s, including a white S4 automatic. We are down to 3, with 3 sold to go toward the purchase of a massive restored old Victorian house she wanted. No use for this size and we never use the upstairs at all, with half of the downstairs also basically closed-doors forgot rooms. But she wanted it.
But it has always been her 84 that is the eye candy. We are at the corner of the main intersection of our small city and for a while we looked like a Porsche dealer. People would stop - often - to oggle over her yellow 928. Even come up and knock on the door. Whether at the gas station or C-store, it gathers a crowd. None would guess it is over 20 years old, most figure its good to 200 mph, and even the local police had come over just to drool over if and gasp when she opens the hood. They tease her in asking how fast has gone in it, though they have an idea given she has been pulled ove doing as much as 140 mph and climbing - she has never gotten a ticket in her life btw - go figure? And all are convinced that it must have cost bags full of money, when it cost less than nearly every other car or pickup in town.
But 90% of the time it can not be driven. It has never been that it won't start or any drivetrain problem. Rather, gremlins. AC just not working for some reason, windows won't open, air pump frozen they knocking out the radiator fan, battery dead again... just constant little things - just enough so she can't comfortably drive it. Her 928 was becoming a frustrating teaser for which she has to then past it to get into one of our backup POS-s instead - and she is tired of that.
If a car can't do at least 140, if it can't push her back into the seat, and if the exhaust doesn't make the house windows rattle, it just ain't work s... to her. Maybe that is not a typical view of most women - but then she also was a professional hunter and trapper for many years in the past too - back when those professions still existed prior to animal-rights days. There are probably 10,000 Russians who still have Beaver fur hats because of her and if there is a Fox wrap falling apart in the back of your closet, that might have been her work too.
After over a year of this can't drive her 928 this week because of... whatever it is that week... her patience was running out quickly. Last month, there was a near miss of her pulling-out-at-the-last-minute from buying a Purple 68 Camero with a very built up 468 CID motor (automatic). The class, exotic nature, handling and top speed of her 928 has spoiled her from clumsy old American muscle cars - even awesome 600 horsepower ones. I'm glad she passed it up.
As I again have been scrambling to try to get all the bugs out her stunning 928, she finally just said she had given up on it, and bought herself a 1988 Jaguar XJS-C V12.
No words would convince her that it - or anything - could be more unreliable than her 928. Her analysis is simplicity itself. She can get in the Jag, start it up and go 150 mph down the road, where all she can do with her 928 is look at it, unless she wants to sit in it and rev up the motor just to hear it and to pretend driving (which she often did).
At least she picked European and of that she picked well within the price range. What can you get for 5 grand?
An XK8 or Lotus was just not within the budget range. Long ago I had many a Brit car and they are ok by me. Her's is a one owner (female), pristine 70K miles XJSC V12 model. The C models are fairly odd. The center section and rear sections of the roof are fiberglass and can be removed, though the roof sides remain with a targa bar between them. This was a design originating out of the era when manufacturers were afraid to make convertibles. A full history of service records show the owner followed the maintenance schedule and had full servicing done - including new tires, brakes, oil and tune up items to put it up for sale.
She gave $5,200 for it - but Jags of the 80s have depressed prices like nearly all cars of the 80s - including 928s. Actually, it is worse for Jag V12s. Examples with 30K miles on them can be found in this same price range as frequent postings.
I still hope she keeps her 928. To this end, I still struggle with the &*(#$)!
windows issue and suggest that she make the Jag her "family car" and the 928 her occasional cruising car. She might agree, but also replies why don't I just make it my 928?
My 928 is a collection consisting of two cars, parts and a motor being built. But it is a 5 speed 86.5, has a turbo set up on it and independent engine management. I prefer the early 928 look and have a "Gimballa" style set of front fenders (944 hideaway headlights) for mine as well. I don't want her car to drive, I just want to keep it - if for no other reason that to have it parked out front.
We have become known as the "Porsche people" in a region where Porsche is a one syllable word - and it is a nice title to have. To give people directions, we just tell them "go straight until you see the Porsches, that is our place" and they will alway find their way. Even if not, all they have to do is ask anyone in about a 10 mile radius "where are the people with all the Porsches?" and everyone pretty much knows.
Whether she will agree to have her Jag be her daily driver and her 928 hot rod show car as her occasional spirited driving car remains to be seen, though I am skeptical. She has already ordered a Euro exhaust (eliminating Cats and 2 of the 4 mufflers plus sanc to both resonators) and performance induction pipes/filters for her V12 (5.3L). The books says that this puts it at around 310 hp in a 3900 lb car. This actually is close to her 84 928 in power to weight - and the Jag has posi (her 84 does not) and independent suspension - though deliberately sloppy for a luxury ride. For that, she also has ordered poly bushings and says she wants to upgrade the shocks, plus ordered drilled and slots rotors. Prices for Jag stuff at that level is half that for 928s, if not less. A full set of drilled and slotted rotors, also plated, front and back is under $200.
As my 928s ultimately will become one car, lose of her 928 ends our being "the Porsche people." Her 928 does look quite stunning in terms of grabbing attention and like 150 mph while parked.
And I am abit concerned, too, if she determines to build up her Jag in terms of competition. The Jag V12 can be built up as a street car the first few stages more cheaply than a 928.
While Brit machines even through that era were fairly primative, until getting into race-tracker seriousness they could be fairly easily and surprisingly built up. For example, my old Norton 850 was as primative a motor that could be found in that era and the suspension was ancient design. But the push rod 2 cylinder motor was a feather weight and simplistic compared to the Japanese inline 4 cylinders overhead cam motors, the suspension so firm it'd jar kidneys, and then the model had the lowest center of gravity. Soon, I had it to being a 126 hp primitive supercharged, 297 pound 3/4 fairing CAFE street legal road bike. To 100 mph, exactly nothing on the street then could match it either in corners or for it's zero-60 time of 2.6 seconds - and on K street tires (and this was 30 years ago).
While my street drag rod was an early El Camino with a 3 duece 427, my little 69 TR-6 with overdrive surprised many a muscle car. Sporty, looked cool, surprisingly swift.
Her V12 starts with posi - which my 928 does not have - forged pistons - which my 928 does not have - and a transmission with GM internals - meaning any of the cheapo tranny kits would slip right in. TH400 Automatics and Jag rear ends can take quite a bit of torque and I suspect a fair amount more than that of a 928. Their mushy independent suspension can be tightened up fairly cheaply due to Jag by that time heavily relying on American made auto parts and interchangeability with them. She could beef up her tranny and have her whole suspension redone for less than it will cost me just to get my 928 to a posi rear-end.
Of course, my 928 will weight in a full quarter ton less and the Euro motor also will have it's turbocharger - a replacement ballbearing one to arrive this week actually. But her V12 has a mere 7.8-1 compression and I suspect it is only weeks away before she sees the new turbo and asks "would a couple of those fit in my Jag?" Of course, turbos will fit into anything.
While Jag motors are definitely not long life motors and, exactly opposite 928s, the motor is the Jag's weak link (where for 928s it is the drivetrain), with her 7.8-1 compression she could run 8-9 psi on pump gas without an intercooler by merely adjusting fuel-air and larger injectors. While Jag V12 heads really suck in terms of performance design on the intake side and are essentially impossible to build up, with forced induction a crummy intake layout matters less.
In short, while it is not that her Jag has more potential for performance over my 928 as it does not. However, in the reality of our budgets, her could win the money race, ie "speed cost money, how fast do you want to go?" To its ceiling - which is lower than that of a 928 - her's cost less to make go faster.
This continues to be has a strange race against time on my part. Can I get the windows on her 928 to go up and down faster than she comes to say "sell it" - probably because she has a new list of Jag performance parts she wants to buy. Yet, while I had envisioned the day of her Covette yellow custom 928 cruising down these little towns main street at night - lined up beside my turbo dark green custom bodies 86.5, I suppose it is not a total disaster were this to shift to a fairly old time European style line up of a modified English Jag KJS V12
lined up to a modified German Porsche V8 928. 
Probably never saw that before out in the sticks of West Texas. As the motors rumbled at the lone red light of the town, I can just envision the radar cop hiding behind the bin at the local farm Coop really hoping we go for it...
And at least it would not be against the purple BB Camero. That guy had 10 second time slips for it. Without NOS. Actually, she should have bought it to resell it. He had repainted too, perfect body. Only $10K. She could have made some $$ on that, but if she bought it she would have kept it.
Worse, she showed me a custom bodied Jag V12 couple, black, asking if I'd rather have that. "No, but thanks." Maybe our place will come to look like some blast from the past Euro peformance car dealership.
But regardless of Cameros, Jags and Porsche, it is evolving to a battle of wills and near crusade over the windows on her 928. I'm going to make the work!
It younger year by now I would be working on it with a large hammer. Very frustrating, with 100 degree weather not helping matters.
Mark O
It is not an ordinary 928. It has an S4 style body kit (in fiberglass), nicely molded in rocker panel skirts, an S5 wing, Euro (large) headlights, BBS wheels and is painted in Covette yellow. She was very fond of it and is a 928ers who actually does know what its top speed is - and fairly frequently so - when it is driveable.
Quickly, she bought me a really nice 81 green 5 speed with the Porsche optional Sport package option.
Within 12 months, we had 6 928s, including a white S4 automatic. We are down to 3, with 3 sold to go toward the purchase of a massive restored old Victorian house she wanted. No use for this size and we never use the upstairs at all, with half of the downstairs also basically closed-doors forgot rooms. But she wanted it.
But it has always been her 84 that is the eye candy. We are at the corner of the main intersection of our small city and for a while we looked like a Porsche dealer. People would stop - often - to oggle over her yellow 928. Even come up and knock on the door. Whether at the gas station or C-store, it gathers a crowd. None would guess it is over 20 years old, most figure its good to 200 mph, and even the local police had come over just to drool over if and gasp when she opens the hood. They tease her in asking how fast has gone in it, though they have an idea given she has been pulled ove doing as much as 140 mph and climbing - she has never gotten a ticket in her life btw - go figure? And all are convinced that it must have cost bags full of money, when it cost less than nearly every other car or pickup in town.
But 90% of the time it can not be driven. It has never been that it won't start or any drivetrain problem. Rather, gremlins. AC just not working for some reason, windows won't open, air pump frozen they knocking out the radiator fan, battery dead again... just constant little things - just enough so she can't comfortably drive it. Her 928 was becoming a frustrating teaser for which she has to then past it to get into one of our backup POS-s instead - and she is tired of that.
If a car can't do at least 140, if it can't push her back into the seat, and if the exhaust doesn't make the house windows rattle, it just ain't work s... to her. Maybe that is not a typical view of most women - but then she also was a professional hunter and trapper for many years in the past too - back when those professions still existed prior to animal-rights days. There are probably 10,000 Russians who still have Beaver fur hats because of her and if there is a Fox wrap falling apart in the back of your closet, that might have been her work too.
After over a year of this can't drive her 928 this week because of... whatever it is that week... her patience was running out quickly. Last month, there was a near miss of her pulling-out-at-the-last-minute from buying a Purple 68 Camero with a very built up 468 CID motor (automatic). The class, exotic nature, handling and top speed of her 928 has spoiled her from clumsy old American muscle cars - even awesome 600 horsepower ones. I'm glad she passed it up.
As I again have been scrambling to try to get all the bugs out her stunning 928, she finally just said she had given up on it, and bought herself a 1988 Jaguar XJS-C V12.
No words would convince her that it - or anything - could be more unreliable than her 928. Her analysis is simplicity itself. She can get in the Jag, start it up and go 150 mph down the road, where all she can do with her 928 is look at it, unless she wants to sit in it and rev up the motor just to hear it and to pretend driving (which she often did). At least she picked European and of that she picked well within the price range. What can you get for 5 grand?
An XK8 or Lotus was just not within the budget range. Long ago I had many a Brit car and they are ok by me. Her's is a one owner (female), pristine 70K miles XJSC V12 model. The C models are fairly odd. The center section and rear sections of the roof are fiberglass and can be removed, though the roof sides remain with a targa bar between them. This was a design originating out of the era when manufacturers were afraid to make convertibles. A full history of service records show the owner followed the maintenance schedule and had full servicing done - including new tires, brakes, oil and tune up items to put it up for sale.
She gave $5,200 for it - but Jags of the 80s have depressed prices like nearly all cars of the 80s - including 928s. Actually, it is worse for Jag V12s. Examples with 30K miles on them can be found in this same price range as frequent postings.
I still hope she keeps her 928. To this end, I still struggle with the &*(#$)!
windows issue and suggest that she make the Jag her "family car" and the 928 her occasional cruising car. She might agree, but also replies why don't I just make it my 928?My 928 is a collection consisting of two cars, parts and a motor being built. But it is a 5 speed 86.5, has a turbo set up on it and independent engine management. I prefer the early 928 look and have a "Gimballa" style set of front fenders (944 hideaway headlights) for mine as well. I don't want her car to drive, I just want to keep it - if for no other reason that to have it parked out front.
We have become known as the "Porsche people" in a region where Porsche is a one syllable word - and it is a nice title to have. To give people directions, we just tell them "go straight until you see the Porsches, that is our place" and they will alway find their way. Even if not, all they have to do is ask anyone in about a 10 mile radius "where are the people with all the Porsches?" and everyone pretty much knows.
Whether she will agree to have her Jag be her daily driver and her 928 hot rod show car as her occasional spirited driving car remains to be seen, though I am skeptical. She has already ordered a Euro exhaust (eliminating Cats and 2 of the 4 mufflers plus sanc to both resonators) and performance induction pipes/filters for her V12 (5.3L). The books says that this puts it at around 310 hp in a 3900 lb car. This actually is close to her 84 928 in power to weight - and the Jag has posi (her 84 does not) and independent suspension - though deliberately sloppy for a luxury ride. For that, she also has ordered poly bushings and says she wants to upgrade the shocks, plus ordered drilled and slots rotors. Prices for Jag stuff at that level is half that for 928s, if not less. A full set of drilled and slotted rotors, also plated, front and back is under $200.
As my 928s ultimately will become one car, lose of her 928 ends our being "the Porsche people." Her 928 does look quite stunning in terms of grabbing attention and like 150 mph while parked.
And I am abit concerned, too, if she determines to build up her Jag in terms of competition. The Jag V12 can be built up as a street car the first few stages more cheaply than a 928.
While Brit machines even through that era were fairly primative, until getting into race-tracker seriousness they could be fairly easily and surprisingly built up. For example, my old Norton 850 was as primative a motor that could be found in that era and the suspension was ancient design. But the push rod 2 cylinder motor was a feather weight and simplistic compared to the Japanese inline 4 cylinders overhead cam motors, the suspension so firm it'd jar kidneys, and then the model had the lowest center of gravity. Soon, I had it to being a 126 hp primitive supercharged, 297 pound 3/4 fairing CAFE street legal road bike. To 100 mph, exactly nothing on the street then could match it either in corners or for it's zero-60 time of 2.6 seconds - and on K street tires (and this was 30 years ago).
While my street drag rod was an early El Camino with a 3 duece 427, my little 69 TR-6 with overdrive surprised many a muscle car. Sporty, looked cool, surprisingly swift.
Her V12 starts with posi - which my 928 does not have - forged pistons - which my 928 does not have - and a transmission with GM internals - meaning any of the cheapo tranny kits would slip right in. TH400 Automatics and Jag rear ends can take quite a bit of torque and I suspect a fair amount more than that of a 928. Their mushy independent suspension can be tightened up fairly cheaply due to Jag by that time heavily relying on American made auto parts and interchangeability with them. She could beef up her tranny and have her whole suspension redone for less than it will cost me just to get my 928 to a posi rear-end.
Of course, my 928 will weight in a full quarter ton less and the Euro motor also will have it's turbocharger - a replacement ballbearing one to arrive this week actually. But her V12 has a mere 7.8-1 compression and I suspect it is only weeks away before she sees the new turbo and asks "would a couple of those fit in my Jag?" Of course, turbos will fit into anything.
While Jag motors are definitely not long life motors and, exactly opposite 928s, the motor is the Jag's weak link (where for 928s it is the drivetrain), with her 7.8-1 compression she could run 8-9 psi on pump gas without an intercooler by merely adjusting fuel-air and larger injectors. While Jag V12 heads really suck in terms of performance design on the intake side and are essentially impossible to build up, with forced induction a crummy intake layout matters less.
In short, while it is not that her Jag has more potential for performance over my 928 as it does not. However, in the reality of our budgets, her could win the money race, ie "speed cost money, how fast do you want to go?" To its ceiling - which is lower than that of a 928 - her's cost less to make go faster.
This continues to be has a strange race against time on my part. Can I get the windows on her 928 to go up and down faster than she comes to say "sell it" - probably because she has a new list of Jag performance parts she wants to buy. Yet, while I had envisioned the day of her Covette yellow custom 928 cruising down these little towns main street at night - lined up beside my turbo dark green custom bodies 86.5, I suppose it is not a total disaster were this to shift to a fairly old time European style line up of a modified English Jag KJS V12
lined up to a modified German Porsche V8 928. Probably never saw that before out in the sticks of West Texas. As the motors rumbled at the lone red light of the town, I can just envision the radar cop hiding behind the bin at the local farm Coop really hoping we go for it...
And at least it would not be against the purple BB Camero. That guy had 10 second time slips for it. Without NOS. Actually, she should have bought it to resell it. He had repainted too, perfect body. Only $10K. She could have made some $$ on that, but if she bought it she would have kept it.
Worse, she showed me a custom bodied Jag V12 couple, black, asking if I'd rather have that. "No, but thanks." Maybe our place will come to look like some blast from the past Euro peformance car dealership.
But regardless of Cameros, Jags and Porsche, it is evolving to a battle of wills and near crusade over the windows on her 928. I'm going to make the work!
It younger year by now I would be working on it with a large hammer. Very frustrating, with 100 degree weather not helping matters. Mark O
07-29-2006, 10:09 AM
#2
928 Collector
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My brother Mark
You have lost her heart already. I'd let it go. She sounds like a keeper, and if I were you I'd foster her interests in the Jag. I have to tell you, probably like every other reader here who reads you MASSIVE if entertaining and heart-felt prose, knodding as we commiserate with your plight in a "btdt" sense .... bet here's the thing .... a JAG?? Come on. I know people have thrown used jags (except the lovable and sssssassy E-type) away for a pittence. I was GIVEN an XJ-12 once. I couldn't take it because I simply could not figure out how to fix the electrical gremlin that kept it from starting. Certainly with the advent of the Internet that is no longer an issue as Factory Workshop Manuals are everywhere for download. Had they only been available back then. Anyway, parts are that inexpensive? .... hmmm this is a rather sizeable surprise. I suppose as long as you guys do your own work. I've always found Jags more expensive in parts and service in the US at least.
Look ..... let's face it the Jag is not a pretty car ... not the '80's ones. But if it makes your jewel of a lady happy ...... I'd hit it
Heinrich
You have lost her heart already. I'd let it go. She sounds like a keeper, and if I were you I'd foster her interests in the Jag. I have to tell you, probably like every other reader here who reads you MASSIVE if entertaining and heart-felt prose, knodding as we commiserate with your plight in a "btdt" sense .... bet here's the thing .... a JAG?? Come on. I know people have thrown used jags (except the lovable and sssssassy E-type) away for a pittence. I was GIVEN an XJ-12 once. I couldn't take it because I simply could not figure out how to fix the electrical gremlin that kept it from starting. Certainly with the advent of the Internet that is no longer an issue as Factory Workshop Manuals are everywhere for download. Had they only been available back then. Anyway, parts are that inexpensive? .... hmmm this is a rather sizeable surprise. I suppose as long as you guys do your own work. I've always found Jags more expensive in parts and service in the US at least.
Look ..... let's face it the Jag is not a pretty car ... not the '80's ones. But if it makes your jewel of a lady happy ...... I'd hit it
Heinrich
07-29-2006, 10:55 AM
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Sad about the '84. I have a feeling the Jag thing won't last. The XJS, although a sexy car in it's day, was a maintenance disaster. So much plumbing under the hood and awful mileage to boot. They were some of the last pre-Ford holdovers and showed it with their rapid depreciation. How about an S4? Mine has been a joy, with few issues.The 5 speed version should provide Ms "Muldowney" with a pretty satisfying experience. G
03-21-2012, 04:51 PM
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jags tend to be either good or bad, if their good they last and work if not you'll never sort them.
The engine looks worse than it is in reality and generally you can swap parts as you say as long as you can work out where they came from, the www will have changed this since i played with them.
if you like an xjs you can have fun and easily change it from cruiser to bruiser even from the factory / well known tuners/racers there were loads of options from turbo/supercharged/big bore/strokers that 5.3l can as easily be a 7l turbo monster. check twr/tickford/lister and for the full deal check the lister storm.
think you might have a real problem mate she could push 700hp way cheaper than you and 500hp without much effort, same with sus/brakes. that said interior is a bit wierd on jags and the styling of the xjs was always a bit off from some angles.
just straight through exhaust on it and you may feel slightly outgunned at the lights already.
The engine looks worse than it is in reality and generally you can swap parts as you say as long as you can work out where they came from, the www will have changed this since i played with them.
if you like an xjs you can have fun and easily change it from cruiser to bruiser even from the factory / well known tuners/racers there were loads of options from turbo/supercharged/big bore/strokers that 5.3l can as easily be a 7l turbo monster. check twr/tickford/lister and for the full deal check the lister storm.
think you might have a real problem mate she could push 700hp way cheaper than you and 500hp without much effort, same with sus/brakes. that said interior is a bit wierd on jags and the styling of the xjs was always a bit off from some angles.
just straight through exhaust on it and you may feel slightly outgunned at the lights already.
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03-21-2012, 06:44 PM
#9
Randy is at it again.
03-21-2012, 07:57 PM
#10
Sadly points out that six neglected 928s do not add up to one decent real S-4. The S-4 makes the XJS look stupid. And while to you it might have looked like a Porsche dealership it may have looked more like a Porsche junkyard to many.
03-21-2012, 08:20 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Much easier to get a simple early car to 100% than the later more complex and troubled models, but money and the right mechanic can make any of them reliable DD.
03-21-2012, 09:11 PM
#12
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I don't know... For the price of all 6 older 928s, plus all the repair costs,
they probably could have gotten a nice s4 that would be a better car,
faster, more reliable, and they wouldn't have gotten so frustrated.
they probably could have gotten a nice s4 that would be a better car,
faster, more reliable, and they wouldn't have gotten so frustrated.
03-21-2012, 11:19 PM
#13
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03-22-2012, 12:57 AM
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03-22-2012, 01:31 AM
#15
Nordschleife Master
We all agree its cheaper to buy a nice 928 than to get one cheap and "fix" it up, but I'm saying a nice early car is a better and cheaper option than a nice later car.