perrys4

I also need this done soon. My fear is the damage I could do if it isn't done correctly. I am sure it would total way more than 2000.00 I also want the motor mounts done while it is torn down along with other things like fuel lines and water hoses as well as vaccum hoses.

Jim_H

I'm with you. This is a very straight forward job. I would do TB/WP jobs for $2000/per in a heartbeat.

Jim_H

Now there is the job from hell.

Bill Ball

Dave C - Good rant.

groppo

Mechanic has started the job, and 3 of the 5 water pump bolts broke off flush with the block. So, off to a good start. Do broken bolts mean a shabby job done before? Or how can you avoid bolts breaking next belt change? If I had the room where I'm living I would give it a go myself, since I used to do all the work on my cars a few years back. They were Citroens - not known for the simplicity. But for now I won't becoming a member of the Order of the 928 Timing Belt Changers. And thanks for the link to the John Pirtle article at http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/svc.html.

Thanks for all your help. I'll keep you posted how it finishes up.

groppo

Bill Ball

Egad...3 out of 5. You may be headed for a record. There are 13 bolts. I'm hoping this was a typo and you meant 3 out of 13.

There are techniques to getting recalcitrant bolts off. Lots of penetrating lube (e.g., PB Blaster), maybe some heat, and a sharp smack on the bolt head to try to break the corrosion. Turn a little, smack again. More lube, let them sit. Work slowly.

You are real lucky if you break none, but in the last 2 WP jobs I was involved in, none broke. Yes, it might be evidence of a bad previous job or perhaps the WP has never been touched.

To avoid this next time make sure the mechanic uses NEW bolts coated with copper antiseize (Lubri Moly). These are steel going into aluminum and standard antiseize is not the best for that.

You better hope to hell this guy is an expert at drilling out broken bolts or this could get a lot messier. He needs to remove the radiator if he has not done so already. This will greatly improve visual access for drilling out the remains. It is critical these be drilled dead center and perfectly straight with the goal of drilling out the center of the bolt and twisting out the remains so the original threads are preserved. Left handed drill bits are useful in this regard. Easy-outs are a bad idea in general as they tend to snap and leave you in worse shape. I know from bad experience.

perrys4

Bill, Your post above supports my decision to have someone more knowledgable do it. I wouldn't want to mess with broken bolts and then I would have a 200.00 tow to add to the bill.

worf928

Thanks.

As Bill says using new bolts is a good start.

A busted waterpump bolt is a sure sign of the last "Pro" not using a torque wrench. I mean it's just a little bolt right? And there are 13+ of them? So, just tighten the thing down with your Gorilla arm right?

Not.

If the bolt is not in good condition replace it.
Optionally, if the bolt is ok but has a bit of gook on it then chase the treads with a die.
Optionally, if the bolt hole has crud in it chase the bolt hole carefully with a tap.
Use copper anti-seize on each bolt.
Use a torque wrench and torque each bolt to your preferred spec in the window of 6 N-m to 10 N-m. Use a torque wrench. A 12 year-old can torque a 6mm bolt to 20+ N-m with a 1/4" ratchet. A grown man can snap the bolt with a 1/4" ratchet. And you will need to buy a 'tiny' torque wrench. The one you use for your lug nuts starts in the 20 N-m range.

It is hard to give your waterpump job that much love if you are trying to beat the Book Time Clock.

UKKid35

Perhaps one good reason for changing the waterpump every time you do a belt job is that it gives the bolts less time to seize.

groppo

Got the car back - with new timing belt - and new water pump, crankshaft pulleys, roller guides, boot chain tensioner, roller bearings.............etc. The bill came to AUS$3,200, but this included new rear rotors/pads and pad sensors. Also, not 3 but 5 water pump bolts broke, so they had to be drilled out and rethreaded. That took 4 hours. Now when driving I don't worry about the belt snapping, but some strange niggly electrical things are occurring, ie, noises behind heater. Wiring loom may have been damaged. And to top it off the other nignt when car was parked someone gave it a decent shunt from the rear. Rear fender bounced back into shape but impact has left a couple of slightly raised vertical ridges above each side on number plate recess. Not good.

Now, I've added up all repair/maintenance costs for the S4 over 4.5 years. When I bought the car I figured on approximately an AUS$3,500 per year budget. Lets see how I close I was - $17,477. Thats equates to $3,883.77 per year. A bit more than what I estimated. Not cheap!
This figure includes all work, tyres(2 sets)/alarm repair/central locking repair etc and general mechanical maintenance. Nonessential work has not been included, ie, new radio (old one still worked). The question is will this figure increase or decrease over the next few years? The cars getting older (180,000 k's), but on the other hand a lot of parts susceptible to breaking at this mileage have been changed. But I think I'm fooling myself.

Cheers,

Peter

heinrich

Peter, my 928's cost an average of 500 US dollars each a year to maintain. I do the work for myself.

Bill Ball

Based on the exchange rate, you paid US$2364. Not out of line for the amount of work and parts. This is a job where you actually like to see a lot of parts on the bill. It would worry me if they did not replace most of the rollers and a gear or two. You can't say whether the broken bolts were inevitable or due to poor technique in removing them, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt. This is not a record for broken water pump bolts. They did a good job to get them drilled out and rethreaded in 4 hours, especially if they managed not to have to insert them. That takes skill. Many people spend more than you have on maintenance.

What's he noise behind the heater like? There are some common vacuum issues with ventilation flaps, some easy, some not so easy to fix.

dr bob

Ron--

Get the TB/WP care package from Jim, and plan on a day up here with the wrenches. If we start early on a Saturday, it should be done that day if no surprises. I need some filler and make-up footage for my TB/WP video. Should be a great opportunity!

ps: That's for the TB job. Water hoses could be fit in there since the coolant will be out anyway. Another day for the MM's. Vacuum hoses?

Bill Ball

Perry - there is an offer you should not refuse.

mark kibort

Yep, the labor kills you. but once you do it, you realize the jobs are really not that hard. some are a PAIN, like installing headers, clutches, etc, but timing belt jobs and water pumps, barring broken bolts flush at the block, are pretty easy. (especially with the help of this list)
this year was my most expesive with the holbert cam problem, but with the help of the list and the Robs help with $$ on the 85 cams, (and Elgins ability to modify the 85cams), that entire mess cost only $1000. besides that , warranty water pump replacement and new belt, rear wheel bearing (actually caused by racing incident in 2002) and then a few brake pad changes, put the year total in the sub $2000 range (and thats for a race car!!)
for the years prior, the car has been pretty cheap to own and race.

Mk