What's the better track car: 924, 924S, or 944?
10-18-2016, 08:07 AM
#32
Three Wheelin'
Hard to argue with the 2L NA against the 924S...but the main reason to stick with the 2L would be cost, ease of working on...cost again...and a bit less weight.
Clutch is like 150 dollars, timing kit is 50-60 and you can do it yourself really easy...even if get it wrong nothing bad happens.
Has 4 lug setup 4x108...cheap wheels...
If setup right brakes are actually ok for light racing (proven fact for years) but you can cheaply upgrade to the 5lug setup from a 924S or early 944 and get access to more expensive porsche wheels as well.
Also early and late cars tend to rust...so the 83 924 NA has the best body there is while a pre 79 or a post 86 body will be more prone to rust.
Another reason to stay with the 2L is for nostalgia, and its actually an exotic by now
If cared for correctly its reliable fun and actually not slow (in european trim)
EDIT: the 2L has a really strong botton end.
Clutch is like 150 dollars, timing kit is 50-60 and you can do it yourself really easy...even if get it wrong nothing bad happens.
Has 4 lug setup 4x108...cheap wheels...
If setup right brakes are actually ok for light racing (proven fact for years) but you can cheaply upgrade to the 5lug setup from a 924S or early 944 and get access to more expensive porsche wheels as well.
Also early and late cars tend to rust...so the 83 924 NA has the best body there is while a pre 79 or a post 86 body will be more prone to rust.
Another reason to stay with the 2L is for nostalgia, and its actually an exotic by now
If cared for correctly its reliable fun and actually not slow (in european trim)
EDIT: the 2L has a really strong botton end.
10-18-2016, 09:27 AM
#33
Hard to argue with the 2L NA against the 924S...but the main reason to stick with the 2L would be cost, ease of working on...cost again...and a bit less weight.
Clutch is like 150 dollars, timing kit is 50-60 and you can do it yourself really easy...even if get it wrong nothing bad happens.
Has 4 lug setup 4x108...cheap wheels...
If setup right brakes are actually ok for light racing (proven fact for years) but you can cheaply upgrade to the 5lug setup from a 924S or early 944 and get access to more expensive porsche wheels as well.
Also early and late cars tend to rust...so the 83 924 NA has the best body there is while a pre 79 or a post 86 body will be more prone to rust.
Another reason to stay with the 2L is for nostalgia, and its actually an exotic by now
If cared for correctly its reliable fun and actually not slow (in european trim)
EDIT: the 2L has a really strong bottom end.
Clutch is like 150 dollars, timing kit is 50-60 and you can do it yourself really easy...even if get it wrong nothing bad happens.
Has 4 lug setup 4x108...cheap wheels...
If setup right brakes are actually ok for light racing (proven fact for years) but you can cheaply upgrade to the 5lug setup from a 924S or early 944 and get access to more expensive porsche wheels as well.
Also early and late cars tend to rust...so the 83 924 NA has the best body there is while a pre 79 or a post 86 body will be more prone to rust.
Another reason to stay with the 2L is for nostalgia, and its actually an exotic by now
If cared for correctly its reliable fun and actually not slow (in european trim)
EDIT: the 2L has a really strong bottom end.
I know your a fan and owner of the old iron lump M (Hence the strength !)
but I'd be surprised if this Engine wasn't heavier than the All Aluminium Porsche 2.5?
I would also say the 924S 2.5 is Easy to work, parts are not expensive as such and the 2.0 is SLOW compared to a 2.5, the difference in performance is substantially better than a 2.0 on road or track..
Nostalgia ? There must be loads more 2.0 924's about that the rare 924S ? or even the early 944s'?
R
10-18-2016, 10:08 AM
#34
Fair enough if I can't talk you into the BMW (I'm a fan of both)
Having owned a 78 924 (which I loved), I wouldn't recommend that era car for track as they are crazy slow (and mine was rebuilt, bored out, etc by Franz Blam). The 924S would be the sweet spot - the power to weight is really ideal for what you're looking at.
Having owned a 78 924 (which I loved), I wouldn't recommend that era car for track as they are crazy slow (and mine was rebuilt, bored out, etc by Franz Blam). The 924S would be the sweet spot - the power to weight is really ideal for what you're looking at.
10-18-2016, 10:14 AM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Actually i dont think there are so many 2L left. This is one reason why they started apreciating in value a bit...especially the turbocharged ones.
I mean look at this forum...so many 944s and very few iron blocks. Most 2L have been parted by now as they didnt do well in drag racing i guess
You will be shocked to find out that the 2.5 engine weighs 166Kg(366 pounds)...and the 2L weights 136Kg(300 pounds).
These are factory stated figures.
And if the 2.5 maintainance is easy and cheap, then the 2L NA mainainance is much cheaper and much easier.
US spec cars have a big performance gap between them as known, but european spec 2L produce 125hp vs the 150hp of the 2.5L.
I have never driven an 150hp 924S but 25hp less and 66pounds less is not a huge deal.
Sure..these are just peak values that dont really matter for racing..but you get the idea...ROW spec 2L engines are not that slow...and have room for improvement.
I mean look at this forum...so many 944s and very few iron blocks. Most 2L have been parted by now as they didnt do well in drag racing i guess
You will be shocked to find out that the 2.5 engine weighs 166Kg(366 pounds)...and the 2L weights 136Kg(300 pounds).
These are factory stated figures.
And if the 2.5 maintainance is easy and cheap, then the 2L NA mainainance is much cheaper and much easier.
US spec cars have a big performance gap between them as known, but european spec 2L produce 125hp vs the 150hp of the 2.5L.
I have never driven an 150hp 924S but 25hp less and 66pounds less is not a huge deal.
Sure..these are just peak values that dont really matter for racing..but you get the idea...ROW spec 2L engines are not that slow...and have room for improvement.
10-18-2016, 12:18 PM
#36
Intermediate
I have track driven a 1980 924 and a 1987 944. Here is how each is setup and the overall experience:
1980 924 with M471 options (115 hp)
Approx 85,000 kms
250 lb weltmeister springs
stock rear TB
23mm front sway
19mm mo30 rear sway bar
new control arm bushings
stock 5 lug brakes with crappy brake pads
stainless steel brake lines
ATE super blue brake fluid
stock engine
205/225 f/r RE-11 tires
This is also my street/weekend/track day car. Its slow but fun in the corners. Wheel spin is not an issue on the track I go to. I dont have any brake overheating issues mainly because I dont use the brakes that much and when I do I can brake very late. Top speed on the track I go to is about 125-130 km/hr. My best lap time is 1:45.3. On the street the car is too stiff and not a good highway car. On track it is not stiff enough. Parts arent too bad but there are a lot of NLA items like main bearings, con rod bearing, front control arms, cam shaft oiler elbows.....lots of parts. Some of these items can be made like the control arms (i.e. buying the VW control arm without the swaybar mount, cutting the mount off a bent control arm and welding it on the new arm). Some of these items people have arranged group buys and limited number of parts. Timing belt is very easy. Non interference engine is nice and simple. I spend a lot of time looking in my mirrors on the straights to get out of the way of the other track cars. Most other cars have 3x-4x the power (M3,GTRs,Corvettes,etc). Most dont get away in the corners which is funny. I am bored of the acceleration but it makes you think about getting faster on track by other ways like racing line, braking, smoothness etc. I still have fun at the track but the car is slow. On the street its fun. Not a lot of these cars around so you do get a couple of looks and questions.
1987 944 race car (147 hp)
505,000 kms
350 lb coil springs
30mm rear TB
30mm front sway
17mm rear sway bar
Solid bushings front and rear
Willwood calipers front 951 calipers rear
stainless steel brake lines
Castrol SRF brake fluid
stock engine, rebuilt
245's on all corners RE-11 tires
6 point roll cage
Gutted interior
This car is not driven on the street (yet hehehehe). This car is also slow. In the corners its violent. I can catch and if I wanted to rear end cars mid corner since the corning speed compared to other street legal cars is much higher (like an audi TTS). My best lap time is 1:39, 6 seconds quicker than my 924. I doubt the HP is what is making up all the time. It feels slightly quicker in the straights. Maybe a top speed of 130-140 kmhr. The increase in speed is not really noticeable in the straights. Wheel spin is also not a huge issue in this car. Might get the inside tire to spin a bit on one tight corner but thats it. I spend the same amount of time looking in my mirrors for faster cars. I would still consider this car slow. Brakes are so overkill its funny. As for parts availability is about the same but less NLA items (if any?). This car is a blast and more fun on track than my 924. I think if it wasnt a gutted racecar it would be just as fun as my 924. But a car that has little compromises will always be more fun on track.
Bottom line, both cars are slow in a straight line and a blast to throw into the corners. Both are fun in different ways. If you are just starting out it wont really matter which car you get since the fun factor could be the same in each car depending on what you modify on the car. As for cost, your going to spend a lot on both and not get all that money out at the end. I would guess there is a bigger market for the 944 but I dont look at this as an investment. I think once you get to know each car mechanically the 944 isnt that much more complicated than a 924. The 944 timing belt is trickier but the 924 CIS system is trickier than the 944 FI system. Go out and get one of them and get to the track, you will have fun no matter what car you buy
1980 924 with M471 options (115 hp)
Approx 85,000 kms
250 lb weltmeister springs
stock rear TB
23mm front sway
19mm mo30 rear sway bar
new control arm bushings
stock 5 lug brakes with crappy brake pads
stainless steel brake lines
ATE super blue brake fluid
stock engine
205/225 f/r RE-11 tires
This is also my street/weekend/track day car. Its slow but fun in the corners. Wheel spin is not an issue on the track I go to. I dont have any brake overheating issues mainly because I dont use the brakes that much and when I do I can brake very late. Top speed on the track I go to is about 125-130 km/hr. My best lap time is 1:45.3. On the street the car is too stiff and not a good highway car. On track it is not stiff enough. Parts arent too bad but there are a lot of NLA items like main bearings, con rod bearing, front control arms, cam shaft oiler elbows.....lots of parts. Some of these items can be made like the control arms (i.e. buying the VW control arm without the swaybar mount, cutting the mount off a bent control arm and welding it on the new arm). Some of these items people have arranged group buys and limited number of parts. Timing belt is very easy. Non interference engine is nice and simple. I spend a lot of time looking in my mirrors on the straights to get out of the way of the other track cars. Most other cars have 3x-4x the power (M3,GTRs,Corvettes,etc). Most dont get away in the corners which is funny. I am bored of the acceleration but it makes you think about getting faster on track by other ways like racing line, braking, smoothness etc. I still have fun at the track but the car is slow. On the street its fun. Not a lot of these cars around so you do get a couple of looks and questions.
1987 944 race car (147 hp)
505,000 kms
350 lb coil springs
30mm rear TB
30mm front sway
17mm rear sway bar
Solid bushings front and rear
Willwood calipers front 951 calipers rear
stainless steel brake lines
Castrol SRF brake fluid
stock engine, rebuilt
245's on all corners RE-11 tires
6 point roll cage
Gutted interior
This car is not driven on the street (yet hehehehe). This car is also slow. In the corners its violent. I can catch and if I wanted to rear end cars mid corner since the corning speed compared to other street legal cars is much higher (like an audi TTS). My best lap time is 1:39, 6 seconds quicker than my 924. I doubt the HP is what is making up all the time. It feels slightly quicker in the straights. Maybe a top speed of 130-140 kmhr. The increase in speed is not really noticeable in the straights. Wheel spin is also not a huge issue in this car. Might get the inside tire to spin a bit on one tight corner but thats it. I spend the same amount of time looking in my mirrors for faster cars. I would still consider this car slow. Brakes are so overkill its funny. As for parts availability is about the same but less NLA items (if any?). This car is a blast and more fun on track than my 924. I think if it wasnt a gutted racecar it would be just as fun as my 924. But a car that has little compromises will always be more fun on track.
Bottom line, both cars are slow in a straight line and a blast to throw into the corners. Both are fun in different ways. If you are just starting out it wont really matter which car you get since the fun factor could be the same in each car depending on what you modify on the car. As for cost, your going to spend a lot on both and not get all that money out at the end. I would guess there is a bigger market for the 944 but I dont look at this as an investment. I think once you get to know each car mechanically the 944 isnt that much more complicated than a 924. The 944 timing belt is trickier but the 924 CIS system is trickier than the 944 FI system. Go out and get one of them and get to the track, you will have fun no matter what car you buy
10-18-2016, 12:24 PM
#37
Actually i dont think there are so many 2L left. This is one reason why they started apreciating in value a bit...especially the turbocharged ones.
I mean look at this forum...so many 944s and very few iron blocks. Most 2L have been parted by now as they didnt do well in drag racing i guess
You will be shocked to find out that the 2.5 engine weighs 166Kg(366 pounds)...and the 2L weights 136Kg(300 pounds).
These are factory stated figures.
And if the 2.5 maintainance is easy and cheap, then the 2L NA mainainance is much cheaper and much easier.
US spec cars have a big performance gap between them as known, but european spec 2L produce 125hp vs the 150hp of the 2.5L.
I have never driven an 150hp 924S but 25hp less and 66pounds less is not a huge deal.
Sure..these are just peak values that dont really matter for racing..but you get the idea...ROW spec 2L engines are not that slow...and have room for improvement.
I mean look at this forum...so many 944s and very few iron blocks. Most 2L have been parted by now as they didnt do well in drag racing i guess
You will be shocked to find out that the 2.5 engine weighs 166Kg(366 pounds)...and the 2L weights 136Kg(300 pounds).
These are factory stated figures.
And if the 2.5 maintainance is easy and cheap, then the 2L NA mainainance is much cheaper and much easier.
US spec cars have a big performance gap between them as known, but european spec 2L produce 125hp vs the 150hp of the 2.5L.
I have never driven an 150hp 924S but 25hp less and 66pounds less is not a huge deal.
Sure..these are just peak values that dont really matter for racing..but you get the idea...ROW spec 2L engines are not that slow...and have room for improvement.
I've heard and read the 2.0 v 2.5 engine weights were close but not a big difference, these figures will also include all the ancilliaries maybe Exhaust manifold too ?
The 2.5 Aluminium block is lighter than the iron 2.0
But the 2.5 Crank is monster Heavy, (mines 3kg - 6.6Lbs less)
I've also found this info on the 924 Turbo ;
Porsche 924 931 engines @ 165 kg.
Porsche 944 8v 944 engines: 166 kg.
Yes, it's a shame the yanks only got given first the 95bhp 2.0 version , but a Euro 924 2.0 v 2.5 comparison Is just not even worth debating ! It's hand over fist faster...
"25hp less and 66pounds less is a huge deal. "
2.0 924's 0 to 60 is approx 10.5 and quarter mile 18 seconds
the 924S is 2.5 seconds quicker to 60 and 3.5+ seconds faster to the 1/4 mile.
This 20% faster on paper + the reality driving on the road especially with low RPM and higher gear acceleration in the 2.5 at it's night and day..
The better comparison is the 924Turbo v 924S or 944 where again the N/A car's are the better road driver..
I'd take on any 200bhp 924 2.0 Turbo against my 205bhp 924S 2.7 8v any day
for street driving, not to mention 44 turbo's, 44 3.0S2's and 968's...but that's a debate not worth startin!
The USA got over half the 924S Production (9137) total 16,669
But they only got 30% (36,902) of 924's total production 121,289
So the USA did have 4 times the amount of 924 2.0 compared to 924S 2.5
I wonder how many left are running today? how many have been broken & crushed? and how many are sitting rotting in the greenery...
R
10-18-2016, 03:36 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Lets not turn this into a comparisson topic but trust me, that difference you see on paper isnt that evident in real life nor does it matter...well unless you're trying to win a race or something.
A couple of years ago I went on a road trip with two buddies, one drove a 944 turbo and one an early 924. On the coutnry back roads we drove on that 125hp NA kept up with us with no stress.
I was really impressed that it kept up with the much more powerful other two cars and i started wanting a NA again since then since i realized that double the power does not necessarily mean double the fun, it just means more money.
So like Brockoli said, even if you track a 944 its still slow by today's standards...especially the US detuned version...damn even the 944 got detuned in USA.
The 931 engine is much heavier than the 924 engine...thats clear. It has more parts that huge clutch comes from a 911 turbo, so does the huge WG..bla bla.
931 is a different thing...but make no mistake, its not laggy or snappy...i love my 931, it pulls like a big NA.
As you said R its really a shame that USA got the 924 detuned so badly. Think of the detuning not just triming off peak hp numbers but also midrange as well...so it does not surprise me that every guy in USA who has driven a 924 says its slow.
In the end i would say the following:
If you can find a 924 with a perfectly running injection system, good body and good condition you can start with that as it will be cheap and if you later decide to upgrade in any way its about just as good of a base as a 924S or 944.
There are no parts you cant find/get for the 2L NA. All the crank bearings are available and they never break unless you do stupid things. Cam oiler elbow is available from ideola's Garage, as are many other parts for the 924.
Wishbones are same stuff as the 944 so you can use 944 wishbones all around if you need to replace them.
If you do get a 924 i recommend upgrading to the late (944) style sway bars anyway.
If you cant find a 924 that runs very well, look for a 2.5L engined car, be it 924S or 944.
Or if you prefer a bigger engine from the start, a smoother engine and a more modern engine, the 2.5 will check all those boxes ofcourse.
A couple of years ago I went on a road trip with two buddies, one drove a 944 turbo and one an early 924. On the coutnry back roads we drove on that 125hp NA kept up with us with no stress.
I was really impressed that it kept up with the much more powerful other two cars and i started wanting a NA again since then since i realized that double the power does not necessarily mean double the fun, it just means more money.
So like Brockoli said, even if you track a 944 its still slow by today's standards...especially the US detuned version...damn even the 944 got detuned in USA.
The 931 engine is much heavier than the 924 engine...thats clear. It has more parts that huge clutch comes from a 911 turbo, so does the huge WG..bla bla.
931 is a different thing...but make no mistake, its not laggy or snappy...i love my 931, it pulls like a big NA.
As you said R its really a shame that USA got the 924 detuned so badly. Think of the detuning not just triming off peak hp numbers but also midrange as well...so it does not surprise me that every guy in USA who has driven a 924 says its slow.
In the end i would say the following:
If you can find a 924 with a perfectly running injection system, good body and good condition you can start with that as it will be cheap and if you later decide to upgrade in any way its about just as good of a base as a 924S or 944.
There are no parts you cant find/get for the 2L NA. All the crank bearings are available and they never break unless you do stupid things. Cam oiler elbow is available from ideola's Garage, as are many other parts for the 924.
Wishbones are same stuff as the 944 so you can use 944 wishbones all around if you need to replace them.
If you do get a 924 i recommend upgrading to the late (944) style sway bars anyway.
If you cant find a 924 that runs very well, look for a 2.5L engined car, be it 924S or 944.
Or if you prefer a bigger engine from the start, a smoother engine and a more modern engine, the 2.5 will check all those boxes ofcourse.
10-18-2016, 03:57 PM
#39
I have track driven a 1980 924 and a 1987 944. Here is how each is setup and the overall experience:
1980 924 with M471 options (115 hp)
Approx 85,000 kms
250 lb weltmeister springs
stock rear TB
23mm front sway
19mm mo30 rear sway bar
new control arm bushings
stock 5 lug brakes with crappy brake pads
stainless steel brake lines
ATE super blue brake fluid
stock engine
205/225 f/r RE-11 tires
This is also my street/weekend/track day car. Its slow but fun in the corners. Wheel spin is not an issue on the track I go to. I dont have any brake overheating issues mainly because I dont use the brakes that much and when I do I can brake very late. Top speed on the track I go to is about 125-130 km/hr. My best lap time is 1:45.3. On the street the car is too stiff and not a good highway car. On track it is not stiff enough. Parts arent too bad but there are a lot of NLA items like main bearings, con rod bearing, front control arms, cam shaft oiler elbows.....lots of parts. Some of these items can be made like the control arms (i.e. buying the VW control arm without the swaybar mount, cutting the mount off a bent control arm and welding it on the new arm). Some of these items people have arranged group buys and limited number of parts. Timing belt is very easy. Non interference engine is nice and simple. I spend a lot of time looking in my mirrors on the straights to get out of the way of the other track cars. Most other cars have 3x-4x the power (M3,GTRs,Corvettes,etc). Most dont get away in the corners which is funny. I am bored of the acceleration but it makes you think about getting faster on track by other ways like racing line, braking, smoothness etc. I still have fun at the track but the car is slow. On the street its fun. Not a lot of these cars around so you do get a couple of looks and questions.
1987 944 race car (147 hp)
505,000 kms
350 lb coil springs
30mm rear TB
30mm front sway
17mm rear sway bar
Solid bushings front and rear
Willwood calipers front 951 calipers rear
stainless steel brake lines
Castrol SRF brake fluid
stock engine, rebuilt
245's on all corners RE-11 tires
6 point roll cage
Gutted interior
This car is not driven on the street (yet hehehehe). This car is also slow. In the corners its violent. I can catch and if I wanted to rear end cars mid corner since the corning speed compared to other street legal cars is much higher (like an audi TTS). My best lap time is 1:39, 6 seconds quicker than my 924. I doubt the HP is what is making up all the time. It feels slightly quicker in the straights. Maybe a top speed of 130-140 kmhr. The increase in speed is not really noticeable in the straights. Wheel spin is also not a huge issue in this car. Might get the inside tire to spin a bit on one tight corner but thats it. I spend the same amount of time looking in my mirrors for faster cars. I would still consider this car slow. Brakes are so overkill its funny. As for parts availability is about the same but less NLA items (if any?). This car is a blast and more fun on track than my 924. I think if it wasnt a gutted racecar it would be just as fun as my 924. But a car that has little compromises will always be more fun on track.
Bottom line, both cars are slow in a straight line and a blast to throw into the corners. Both are fun in different ways. If you are just starting out it wont really matter which car you get since the fun factor could be the same in each car depending on what you modify on the car. As for cost, your going to spend a lot on both and not get all that money out at the end. I would guess there is a bigger market for the 944 but I dont look at this as an investment. I think once you get to know each car mechanically the 944 isnt that much more complicated than a 924. The 944 timing belt is trickier but the 924 CIS system is trickier than the 944 FI system. Go out and get one of them and get to the track, you will have fun no matter what car you buy
1980 924 with M471 options (115 hp)
Approx 85,000 kms
250 lb weltmeister springs
stock rear TB
23mm front sway
19mm mo30 rear sway bar
new control arm bushings
stock 5 lug brakes with crappy brake pads
stainless steel brake lines
ATE super blue brake fluid
stock engine
205/225 f/r RE-11 tires
This is also my street/weekend/track day car. Its slow but fun in the corners. Wheel spin is not an issue on the track I go to. I dont have any brake overheating issues mainly because I dont use the brakes that much and when I do I can brake very late. Top speed on the track I go to is about 125-130 km/hr. My best lap time is 1:45.3. On the street the car is too stiff and not a good highway car. On track it is not stiff enough. Parts arent too bad but there are a lot of NLA items like main bearings, con rod bearing, front control arms, cam shaft oiler elbows.....lots of parts. Some of these items can be made like the control arms (i.e. buying the VW control arm without the swaybar mount, cutting the mount off a bent control arm and welding it on the new arm). Some of these items people have arranged group buys and limited number of parts. Timing belt is very easy. Non interference engine is nice and simple. I spend a lot of time looking in my mirrors on the straights to get out of the way of the other track cars. Most other cars have 3x-4x the power (M3,GTRs,Corvettes,etc). Most dont get away in the corners which is funny. I am bored of the acceleration but it makes you think about getting faster on track by other ways like racing line, braking, smoothness etc. I still have fun at the track but the car is slow. On the street its fun. Not a lot of these cars around so you do get a couple of looks and questions.
1987 944 race car (147 hp)
505,000 kms
350 lb coil springs
30mm rear TB
30mm front sway
17mm rear sway bar
Solid bushings front and rear
Willwood calipers front 951 calipers rear
stainless steel brake lines
Castrol SRF brake fluid
stock engine, rebuilt
245's on all corners RE-11 tires
6 point roll cage
Gutted interior
This car is not driven on the street (yet hehehehe). This car is also slow. In the corners its violent. I can catch and if I wanted to rear end cars mid corner since the corning speed compared to other street legal cars is much higher (like an audi TTS). My best lap time is 1:39, 6 seconds quicker than my 924. I doubt the HP is what is making up all the time. It feels slightly quicker in the straights. Maybe a top speed of 130-140 kmhr. The increase in speed is not really noticeable in the straights. Wheel spin is also not a huge issue in this car. Might get the inside tire to spin a bit on one tight corner but thats it. I spend the same amount of time looking in my mirrors for faster cars. I would still consider this car slow. Brakes are so overkill its funny. As for parts availability is about the same but less NLA items (if any?). This car is a blast and more fun on track than my 924. I think if it wasnt a gutted racecar it would be just as fun as my 924. But a car that has little compromises will always be more fun on track.
Bottom line, both cars are slow in a straight line and a blast to throw into the corners. Both are fun in different ways. If you are just starting out it wont really matter which car you get since the fun factor could be the same in each car depending on what you modify on the car. As for cost, your going to spend a lot on both and not get all that money out at the end. I would guess there is a bigger market for the 944 but I dont look at this as an investment. I think once you get to know each car mechanically the 944 isnt that much more complicated than a 924. The 944 timing belt is trickier but the 924 CIS system is trickier than the 944 FI system. Go out and get one of them and get to the track, you will have fun no matter what car you buy
Nice Write up, well described and it all makes perfect sense as I would of expected from such a comparison also from all my road and race experiences..
R
10-18-2016, 04:10 PM
#40
No, this thread is asking for just that (Morghen) What's the best car?
Shawn is asking for opinions and comparisons on 3 models : the 924 / 924S & 944 for a prospective Cheap Track car
He said:
I'm looking for input and pros/cons on:
- Performance.
- Parts availability.
- Ease of maintenance.
- Durability.
- Upgradability.
Your referral of a 2.0 924 keeping up with a 944 Turbo doesn't surprise me at all on public roads, lighter and Normally aspirated always do very well here against the low compression Laggy blowers..!
www.924srr27L.co.uk
R
10-19-2016, 04:16 AM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Haha, there was a german 968 owner who once told me: when will you get a real engine in that red car of yours?
If they price it right i might swap the old iron lump for the motorwerks engine...but the 2.2L Audi AAN 5 cyl engine also sounds like a great swap.
For now tough, the iron lump keeps me happy.
http://www.motorwerksracing.com/
If they price it right i might swap the old iron lump for the motorwerks engine...but the 2.2L Audi AAN 5 cyl engine also sounds like a great swap.
For now tough, the iron lump keeps me happy.
http://www.motorwerksracing.com/
10-19-2016, 09:33 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the ideas. I'm going for the 924S that's near me.
Coming into this I figured that I would end up going after a 924S, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything amazing about the 924 or 944, or catastrophic about the 924S. I'll probably start a thread as I start this journey, just for everyone's entertainment!
- Lighter and more aerodynamic than a 944.
- More horsepower than a 924.
- Shares suspension components with the 944.
- The one I'm looking at looks like it's in pretty good shape.
Coming into this I figured that I would end up going after a 924S, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything amazing about the 924 or 944, or catastrophic about the 924S. I'll probably start a thread as I start this journey, just for everyone's entertainment!
10-19-2016, 12:08 PM
#43
Race Car
Brockoli,
LOVE your report & insights.
My only real experience for comparison is a 78 924 and an 88 944.
Both with stock engines & suspension. After 5 days of driving the 78 the 944 feels like a race car because the difference in braking, engine, and quick ratio steering, plus the racing seats in the 944.
To me the weakest area of the 924 isn't the engine, but in the case of my early car with rear drums, it's the soft brakes & slow ratio steering... it could never feel like a high performer unless those 2 things got sorted.
Perhaps with a much smaller steering wheel and later disk brake conversion it would revolutionize the car. Everybody wants more power. 924 wants to be like 944, 944 wants to be like 951, 951 wants to be... it doesn't seem to end.
LOVE your report & insights.
My only real experience for comparison is a 78 924 and an 88 944.
Both with stock engines & suspension. After 5 days of driving the 78 the 944 feels like a race car because the difference in braking, engine, and quick ratio steering, plus the racing seats in the 944.
To me the weakest area of the 924 isn't the engine, but in the case of my early car with rear drums, it's the soft brakes & slow ratio steering... it could never feel like a high performer unless those 2 things got sorted.
Perhaps with a much smaller steering wheel and later disk brake conversion it would revolutionize the car. Everybody wants more power. 924 wants to be like 944, 944 wants to be like 951, 951 wants to be... it doesn't seem to end.
10-19-2016, 06:11 PM
#44
Thanks for all the ideas. I'm going for the 924S that's near me.
Coming into this I figured that I would end up going after a 924S, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything amazing about the 924 or 944, or catastrophic about the 924S. I'll probably start a thread as I start this journey, just for everyone's entertainment!
- Lighter and more aerodynamic than a 944.
- More horsepower than a 924.
- Shares suspension components with the 944.
- The one I'm looking at looks like it's in pretty good shape.
Coming into this I figured that I would end up going after a 924S, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything amazing about the 924 or 944, or catastrophic about the 924S. I'll probably start a thread as I start this journey, just for everyone's entertainment!
Good choice, the underestimated model that was clearly detuned to make sure it wasn't faster than the 44!
I can imagine in testing it did just that and the management had to suggest (like the Cayman) that it had to be reined in somewhat! (Unyet Porsche took a U turn on the Cayman and fitted a 911 3.8 and called it a GT4)
Porsche did however make a prototype 924 2.7 with the Oval Dash!
http://dls-automobile.de/porsche-924...totyp-fin0006/
R