odonnell

Been thinking about upgrading my brakes but don't want to spend $850+ on everything.

Anyone have a used set of Wilwoods (or otherwise) for sale? I'm not really interested in changing hubs, spindles, rotors, etc for 951 brakes. Before anyone says that stock brakes are actually very decent, mine are fine...I just want better.

V2Rocket

http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/t10...ighlight=volvo

Dougs951S

interesting...I was unaware of this. I wonder how much a new pair of calipers is off rockauto? what rotor do you run with these?

V2Rocket

~$40 for reman's at Oreilly...

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/se...240&vi=1287075

My understanding was that these fit regular NA rotors.
But I haven't done this swap yet to confirm...my plan has just been to wait until I need to replace my existing calipers before trying this swap.

However...I am going to be doing a brake upgrade on my Subaru sometime soon. On these, the popular upgrade is to use a different mount bracket for the standard caliper to use a larger diameter rotor to increase rear brake torque without having to mess with hydraulics...

So maybe there's a way to put a bigger rotor on the 944 and use the standard caliper with some kind of extension bracket for the same effect?

Dougs951S

A cheap way to get big rear brakes is to just use a set of 86' 951 rear calipers. The rotor and caliper just bolts on to any 83-86 NA rear spindle.

odonnell

I've looked at the Volvo brakes in the past and was always unsure because to my knowledge, nobody has actually done it to report back. I may take a stab at it though as I'm ready to do a brake fluid flush.

Would my stock front calipers bolt to the rears?

V2Rocket

Michael - if you be the guinea pig for fitment on early NA spindle with standard NA rotors, and you use one of the ~$40 parts store reman calipers, and they work as hoped...
I'll pay for one of the calipers.

odonnell

Deal!

I found these - is there a trick to getting around the core charge, or am I best served getting some from the junkyard? Spencer if you know of any near you, I can reimburse you for your time and money spent getting cores if I can't find any. But at that point, may as well rebuild them myself.




I'm definitely interested in trying them and am happy to do a post-install writeup and review.

Dougs951S

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/v...b,caliper,1704


They are ~42 dollars/ea WITH the core charge at Rockauto.

Less than 100 bucks for a pair sent to your door.

odonnell

Bookmarked!

My concern is that those calipers AREN'T the ones for abs-equipped bricks, which are the ones that bolt up.

I did find these:
http://www.partsgeek.com/mmparts/bra...volvo/240.html

Probably about $150 shipped.

For splitters, I found these: https://www.belmetric.com/bubble-fla...ee-p-1109.html

Edit: turns out getting 4 of these is is probably the path of least resistance as far as jumper lines go: https://www.belmetric.com/475mm-brak...c-17_186_1168/

I can cut and re-flare to size if needed. The calipers and splitters call for a standard Euro bubble flare. I think I should be good to plug my existing brake lines (where they would connect to the calipers) into the splitter, I'm assuming it's M10x1.0.

There is cheaper stuff on ebay, but I'd rather spend negligibly more and have good quality brake line parts.

odonnell

Actually, question: are the flexible lines that run to the caliper a fitting style that can be substituted in place of a bubble flare? I want to make sure they join to the splitter correctly or if I have to use an adapter. Basically the splitter needs a bubble flared line, but IIRC the flexible line has a convex male end because of course it isn't flared. Will it be safe to thread it in?

924srr27l

Brakes are not a Component as many others in my opinion that you would consider skimping and going for a Cheap change, you usually get what you pay for and if you want a substantial or Huge Increase / Upgrade you gotta spend the money

Also finding alternative calipers like the Volvo's may or may not have any or as much effect as you may like?

You need to do, or find someone to do the maths on the current piston sizes, Swept area, Pedal pressure and bias etc..to get it right.

Otherwise the rears will lock first if you get this wrong, EG fitting the same caliper on each corner the rear will lock first.

I was lucky to find a Company here in the Uk that Specialise is Braking systems for Racecars.

They asked me many questions on the stock set up including wheel and tyres sizes, piston and master cylinder sizes, vehicle weight & distribution etc...

Then they worked out what the stock set up was and subsequently told me the differences when I gave them several piston size options with Wilwood 4 & 6 Piston Calipers.

See attached PDF Spec Sheet,

From left to right the Pink Section is the stock set up for a 924S / 944 2.5 8v
you can see the stock bias is 56.90 / 43.10 Front /Rear

The Yellow centre figures are with 6 pot / 4 pot Wilwoods but the bias is
54.01 / 45.99 Front / Rear which locks first,

The right hand Blue section is the same calipers but with larger bore rear circuit master cylinder (from the 968) this one is better but still locks the rears but is much better with an adjustable Brake Bias Valve fitted in the rear line, and it's this set up that I have on the car.

The Braking power, feel and less pedal pressure required produces a quite staggering effect on the road with 20 pistons all working with ease!

They are really Overkill for the street, but I like this as so far the car can and does outbrake anything else on the road!

Even with the softest pads I fitted the fronts did start to glaze a little, due to the low weight of the car and the lack of Inertia from the knife edged crank, aluminium fly and 500Lbs less vehicle weight than stock etc...the car virtually decelerates and loses 10mph every per 3 seconds, so even doing 90 mpg into a 50 mph bend doesn't require much braking as coasting does most of the work!












4 Piston Dynalite & 6 Piston DynaPro
Both Brackets (Which need modfying) were from companies that do brake kits for older VW Transporter's to use 944 Hubs / Stubs and Wilwood Calipers.

R

odonnell

Roger I respect the work you put into your car and I have to agree with the analysis.

But at the same time I'm not looking for a finely tuned brake setup because I know how much $$$ this venture is worth to me...well under $500. If it doesn't work well I'll just go back to stock. There isn't a lot of crazy engineering to be done here, it's just uprating the front calipers slightly. Common mod done by DIY guys for all sorts of cars.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...vo-Upgrade-DIY

V2Rocket

Another option I just remembered...there was a VW shop that made brackets to adapt Boxster calipers to the early 944 spindle...I'll look for the link later

924srr27l

Yes that's also my point, the times in my (younger years!) that I've done loads of (less than $500 changes) must be about 50+ times.

If i'd of known then what I know now and all that!

The engineering may not not be crazy, but like all car components they have been specifically calculated and any un-calculated change could present issues.

If it's a cheap / Slight change / Improvement your after try some different Brake pads ? But the Title says BIG Brakes??

R