New to 944, purchase question
09-19-2016, 03:22 PM
#1
New to 944, purchase question
I'm thinking about buying the 1985 944 for sale at gatewayclassiccars.com.
Has anyone looked at it?
It has 32,000 miles. They want $19,900.
I live in California and will be buying without actually seeing the car in person. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
The Carfax looks good. Certificate of Authenticity looks good. Original window sticker looks good.
The only odd thing is that the vin stamped on the car near the battery is different than the real vin everywhere else on the car.
There's a section on the stamped vin that shows zzz as part of the vin. Did Porsche do that on 944s during this era?
Has anyone looked at it?
It has 32,000 miles. They want $19,900.
I live in California and will be buying without actually seeing the car in person. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
The Carfax looks good. Certificate of Authenticity looks good. Original window sticker looks good.
The only odd thing is that the vin stamped on the car near the battery is different than the real vin everywhere else on the car.
There's a section on the stamped vin that shows zzz as part of the vin. Did Porsche do that on 944s during this era?
09-19-2016, 04:32 PM
#4
Track Day
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Thats s2 money. You can find a very similar low mileage s2 coupe for that money or a tiny bit more. I would go that way, even though I am very biased.
I might be in the market to sell mine if you're interested. PM me if you want.
I might be in the market to sell mine if you're interested. PM me if you want.
09-19-2016, 06:15 PM
#5
I have looked at a lot of 944's and agree the price seems high...that said, if it's 32,000 original and the car is in excellent original condition, those are certainly becoming hard to find
09-19-2016, 06:57 PM
#6
Instructor
Fuchs and sport seats are nice options. Starting price might be a little high, but it's probably worth a try if everything else seems good to you. Would be nice to know more about recent service history (timing belt, etc.).
09-19-2016, 08:31 PM
#7
Race Car
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Austin TX, drinking beer in the garage
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20k for an NA is ridiculous, no matter how well its optioned or how nice it is. Another thing to consider with a super low mileage car is whether or not its actually been maintained. Sitting around not being driven is terrible for a car, and if it's not been properly maintained on schedule you can count on the motor leaking from every seal and all the belts and the water pump will require replacing. If it's a rubber center clutch (almost certainly is at that low mileage) you can bet the rubber center is rotted and you can expect a clutch job in the near future. I dont know if you do your own work, but if you have a shop service the car you can expect a timing belt/water pump/rollers + clutch job to cost 4k-5k. Add another several hundred for the front seals to be done, and if the balance shaft housings leak that's another 500+ dollars. Oil cooler seals will run you 500+ and a head gasket will be 1500+.Once you're done spending 5-6k on getting the engine up to date, you can then open your check book and replace all the rotted bushings in the suspension. By the time you have a reliable car, that 20k NA will be closer to a 30k dollar NA.
What I'm trying to say is, these cars simply are not collectible enough; and don't command the value to make them good investment cars. A 944 is a losing proposition financially any way you cut it. I say that and I do all my own work on both of my 944 series cars. I think every long term owner here will agree with me there. That doesn't make them not terrific cars, but don't buy a low mileage example thinking you'll ever get a return on it; because you wont. If I had back every dollar I spent just on my 951, I'd be driving a 996 or a C6 right now. For 20k I'd be looking at a slightly higher mileage S2 or 951 that's actually been driven and maintained by an enthusiast.
What I'm trying to say is, these cars simply are not collectible enough; and don't command the value to make them good investment cars. A 944 is a losing proposition financially any way you cut it. I say that and I do all my own work on both of my 944 series cars. I think every long term owner here will agree with me there. That doesn't make them not terrific cars, but don't buy a low mileage example thinking you'll ever get a return on it; because you wont. If I had back every dollar I spent just on my 951, I'd be driving a 996 or a C6 right now. For 20k I'd be looking at a slightly higher mileage S2 or 951 that's actually been driven and maintained by an enthusiast.
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09-19-2016, 08:53 PM
#8
Rainman
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If you buy the car and live in SoCal I would be happy to go through all the "recommended maintenance" as described by Doug and I will give you a deal on the labor for being able to check out a pristine example...
I'm not a shop but have been traveling and fixing people's 944s around CA for 8 years now, and have owned mine for 11...
I'm not a shop but have been traveling and fixing people's 944s around CA for 8 years now, and have owned mine for 11...
09-20-2016, 01:49 PM
#9
Intermediate
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I bought my early 85 with 95k miles and a set of Fuch 15's for $1350, spent about $1500 to $2000 to get it running doing the labor with my son. Timing belt, a new (used) clutch, clutch slave and master, new tires and a bunch of nickle and dime stuff. If I where to guess I would probably get maybe $4k if I sold it.
Around here I've seen nice turbo cars listed for <$10k
Around here I've seen nice turbo cars listed for <$10k
09-20-2016, 02:09 PM
#10
Addict
Rennlist Member
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Fact that somebody is selling it for 20k and somebody else is considering buying it for 20k, tells a lot about recent 944 trends.
09-22-2016, 03:13 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
YOU CAN BUY A NICE TURBO THAT FOR MUCH !!!Its way over priced .
09-22-2016, 11:34 PM
#12
Excellent information from all of you who responded. Thank you. And I think the post listing all the expenses I'd run into was probably correct. So, I didn't buy that 944. Then I got curious about what other 944's might be out there. I found an ad for a 944 in Washington state. I called and found out as much as I could think to ask and bought the car. You can see it at www.parkplaceltd.com. It's the only 944 they have listed. 86,000 miles, black, Celebration Edition with plaid interior. Looks like a fun car to own. It will be shipped to me in the San Fran area in the next week. No limited slip, but I can add that once it gets here.
09-23-2016, 12:19 AM
#13
Pro
Last edited by KVDR; 09-23-2016 at 12:01 PM. Reason: Congrats on the buy
09-23-2016, 04:00 AM
#14
Three Wheelin'
Congratulations on purchasing the Jubilee/Celebration 944 ~
We have matching examples...... and must say: Please do not change anything different from the way the car is coded on it's build sheet. IF, you wish it to retain it's status as a collectible in the future.
To find a car today with it's coveted Medallion still in the glove box is a miracle. They just never hang around that long. In fact, if it hasn't gotten on the transport yet, I would have the salesman take it out and send it to you in a registered mail packet, where each party has to sign off responsibility on it's leg of the journey. ( it's how gold, watches, high end jewelry is shipped by mail )
The medallions are becoming THAT rare in their own right.
A note about the asking price on your purchase. YOU got a tremendous bargain. 3 years ago the Porsche factory at Porsche Parade had a museum curator searching for these cars and when they saw my serial #, and learned of the car in the condition it is in, became immediately interested in obtaining it for their collection, as they have a 911 Celebration car, but no 944 or 924 ( at that point in time.) These have been lost to the ravages of time and personally I know of 5 which have become track cars, two which have been modified to extreme, and at least 5 more which have been wrecked and parted.
As to the current values of pure , pristine low mileage cars, one recently sold on Bring a Trailer for 27 and change. Another sold privately for over 20. These were base cars and altho nearly perfect were not unique in the options department. Collectors are looking for great examples of these series because few have survived in excellent, low mileage form.
The same old dribble about high mile driven cars keeps coming to the front , but bear in mind. They are only original once. Soft trim items are nearly impossible to replace while mechanical items are easier to repair, indistinguishable to the eye, and gaskets and seals all dry and leak with time requiring maint. All mechanical items need maint. whether driven or not. But the high mileage , daily drivers are never going to have the purity and cache' of a well preserved example which has had a sheltered life free of U/V degradation, sun rot of interiors, and door dings from ding bats at the mall.
Consequently ( and look to the Ferrari - Maserati - Lamborghini markets to bear thus truism as fact ) a low mile garage queen will always rise to the top of the pecking order on value, with Concours winning , original paint, patina, trim, and engine/drivetrains garnering the largest interest.
And, money. It holds true for any car, especially in higher end vehicles, or sports cars which are driven for the enjoyment factor and sometimes used a little more 'vigorously'. The 944 fell out of love by the Porsche elite nearly instantly and was passed over for years by 911 owners who discounted their merit. This has changed dramatically recently, and the war torn daily driven cars abused by high school and college students has sunken to the bottom of the pile of misfits. The great cars are already going into the garages and collections of the smart buyer.
We have matching examples...... and must say: Please do not change anything different from the way the car is coded on it's build sheet. IF, you wish it to retain it's status as a collectible in the future.
To find a car today with it's coveted Medallion still in the glove box is a miracle. They just never hang around that long. In fact, if it hasn't gotten on the transport yet, I would have the salesman take it out and send it to you in a registered mail packet, where each party has to sign off responsibility on it's leg of the journey. ( it's how gold, watches, high end jewelry is shipped by mail )
The medallions are becoming THAT rare in their own right.
A note about the asking price on your purchase. YOU got a tremendous bargain. 3 years ago the Porsche factory at Porsche Parade had a museum curator searching for these cars and when they saw my serial #, and learned of the car in the condition it is in, became immediately interested in obtaining it for their collection, as they have a 911 Celebration car, but no 944 or 924 ( at that point in time.) These have been lost to the ravages of time and personally I know of 5 which have become track cars, two which have been modified to extreme, and at least 5 more which have been wrecked and parted.
As to the current values of pure , pristine low mileage cars, one recently sold on Bring a Trailer for 27 and change. Another sold privately for over 20. These were base cars and altho nearly perfect were not unique in the options department. Collectors are looking for great examples of these series because few have survived in excellent, low mileage form.
The same old dribble about high mile driven cars keeps coming to the front , but bear in mind. They are only original once. Soft trim items are nearly impossible to replace while mechanical items are easier to repair, indistinguishable to the eye, and gaskets and seals all dry and leak with time requiring maint. All mechanical items need maint. whether driven or not. But the high mileage , daily drivers are never going to have the purity and cache' of a well preserved example which has had a sheltered life free of U/V degradation, sun rot of interiors, and door dings from ding bats at the mall.
Consequently ( and look to the Ferrari - Maserati - Lamborghini markets to bear thus truism as fact ) a low mile garage queen will always rise to the top of the pecking order on value, with Concours winning , original paint, patina, trim, and engine/drivetrains garnering the largest interest.
And, money. It holds true for any car, especially in higher end vehicles, or sports cars which are driven for the enjoyment factor and sometimes used a little more 'vigorously'. The 944 fell out of love by the Porsche elite nearly instantly and was passed over for years by 911 owners who discounted their merit. This has changed dramatically recently, and the war torn daily driven cars abused by high school and college students has sunken to the bottom of the pile of misfits. The great cars are already going into the garages and collections of the smart buyer.
09-23-2016, 04:15 AM
#15
Three Wheelin'
One other note about the Studio plaid interior and the plush grey carpet unique to these cars ONLY.
They are both very fragile and soil easily. The fabric has a propensity to tear easily on the bolster and fabric is NOT available in a correct match.
I take great care in not allowing mine to be exposed to u/v and use a seat cover slip over to keep the wear to a minimum. My car has around 70,000 miles and is a greatly cared for car by the previous owner who was a woman who received it for her 40th birthday gift from her now deceased husband.
The codes in the cars I have knowledge of are all about the same in identity. They all have side moldings, split back seats, 5 speeds, sunroofs, Blaupunkt Daytona stereo, unique 7 and 8 inch by 16 phone dials ( staggered ). A few had the front headlight washers, and all had the rear window wiper with washer. I know of only one automatic car.
North America only got 250 Silver and 250 Black Metallic cars ( and some say less black cars than that number actually were made ). It IS rare. Was when new, and is rarer today from the amount of attrition which befell them. Guard that true love like you mean it...... (-;
They are both very fragile and soil easily. The fabric has a propensity to tear easily on the bolster and fabric is NOT available in a correct match.
I take great care in not allowing mine to be exposed to u/v and use a seat cover slip over to keep the wear to a minimum. My car has around 70,000 miles and is a greatly cared for car by the previous owner who was a woman who received it for her 40th birthday gift from her now deceased husband.
The codes in the cars I have knowledge of are all about the same in identity. They all have side moldings, split back seats, 5 speeds, sunroofs, Blaupunkt Daytona stereo, unique 7 and 8 inch by 16 phone dials ( staggered ). A few had the front headlight washers, and all had the rear window wiper with washer. I know of only one automatic car.
North America only got 250 Silver and 250 Black Metallic cars ( and some say less black cars than that number actually were made ). It IS rare. Was when new, and is rarer today from the amount of attrition which befell them. Guard that true love like you mean it...... (-;