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I find this interesting. I do sometimes see my oil pressure gauge flicker when driving straight on a motorway at constant 130 km/h. Oil pressure is around 4 bars and it flickers a little, say +-0.25 bars.
My engine has less than 10000 miles on it, has a pan baffle, ring on the pick up tube and an external oil cooler together with the oil-water heat exchanger.
Are you saying I should be worried?
I was speaking in the context of a high speed, long duration track event with various sweepers and curves with banking.
BUT, if you have done this on track duty with your car, and have some higher mileage on it without bearing maintenance, then I would definitely consider pulling the pan and giving it a good check. Rod bearings are a normal part of 944 ownership maint. and shouldn't be overlooked, just as coolant changes, brake fluid flushes, regular oil and filter changes, brake pad changeouts, and transaxle fluid changeout.
The number two rod is slightly shrouded by the oil pickup and is thought to be affected over time in normal driving; add in any long duration track events with heat, or oil contamination ( fuel, carbon, dirt, etc. ) and throw oil starvation into the equation from g-loads on banking or long sweepers and there should be considered a more stringent time table to all maint. regarding oil and bearings. It is for this reason and only this reason for the 1/2 quart over fill suggestion, as it's completely unnecessary in regular driving.
In the same token, I have seen bearing shells taken from a 130,000 mile 944 normal, with summer heat, daily driving, and track use, but having been fed a steady diet of Mobil 1 - 15/40 or 50 Synthetic oil, with zero bearing shell wear issues.
Clean oil, no cold hard start-ups, no overheating, and no missed shifts/over-revs. I believe it helps tremendously in frequency of oil, type of oil, and driver skill levels and care to be pulling that off, along with a well built engine with great oil pressure. No oil contaminants.
You may also wish to give some thought to your OPRV valve and when it was changed if your car has higher mileage. It has been known the oil pressure relief valve to have gotten gummy or sticky or just worn out and cause needle variance.
I was going to borrow a hoist but the owner was unavailable today. But I needed my truck this afternoon so I had to go buy one from harbor freight. It was 159 plus today there was 25% off one item for Labor Day. So $119 was a great deal. And it worked really well, it had adequate height, and I got the engine off the truck and into my garage.
when I'm done I should be able to get fairly close to what I paid for it.
I'm starting to clean it up and get it ready. I have the timing/balance belts and oil cooler seals on order. This week I will see what progress can be made.
I was speaking in the context of a high speed, long duration track event with various sweepers and curves with banking.
BUT, if you have done this on track duty with your car, and have some higher mileage on it without bearing maintenance, then I would definitely consider pulling the pan and giving it a good check. Rod bearings are a normal part of 944 ownership maint. and shouldn't be overlooked, just as coolant changes, brake fluid flushes, regular oil and filter changes, brake pad changeouts, and transaxle fluid changeout.
The number two rod is slightly shrouded by the oil pickup and is thought to be affected over time in normal driving; add in any long duration track events with heat, or oil contamination ( fuel, carbon, dirt, etc. ) and throw oil starvation into the equation from g-loads on banking or long sweepers and there should be considered a more stringent time table to all maint. regarding oil and bearings. It is for this reason and only this reason for the 1/2 quart over fill suggestion, as it's completely unnecessary in regular driving.
In the same token, I have seen bearing shells taken from a 130,000 mile 944 normal, with summer heat, daily driving, and track use, but having been fed a steady diet of Mobil 1 - 15/40 or 50 Synthetic oil, with zero bearing shell wear issues.
Clean oil, no cold hard start-ups, no overheating, and no missed shifts/over-revs. I believe it helps tremendously in frequency of oil, type of oil, and driver skill levels and care to be pulling that off, along with a well built engine with great oil pressure. No oil contaminants.
You may also wish to give some thought to your OPRV valve and when it was changed if your car has higher mileage. It has been known the oil pressure relief valve to have gotten gummy or sticky or just worn out and cause needle variance.
Thank you for the elaborate explanation. My OPRV was changed when the engine was built. I use full synthetic liqui moly 5w50 oil and change it every 6000 miles or 1 year. Of course the engine is new, so during break in I had it changed more often. I also check the oil level pretty much every time before I start the car.
(without being offensive) I've been around long enough to know about the oiling issues. I was wondering if the occasional needle flicker may be a concern as an indicator of any potential issue with my engine?
I was wondering if the occasional needle flicker may be a concern as an indicator of any potential issue with my engine?
I don't know what's normal, but when starting the engine, the oil pressure gauge would stay at about 4. After the engine had warmed up, the needle would constantly bounce frantically between about "1.5" and "3" on every revolution at idle. It's behaved that way since I got the car. When revving, the needle stayed at around "4.5" or so, and never wavered.
I wasn't looking down at it when I was rounding Turn 10 with my foot on the floor, so I don't know if it ever wavered from "4.5" or so out on track.
If the big exclamation point light in the instrument panel ever came on out on the track, it never caught my attention. It only started to flicker at me after taxiing back to my trailer and climbing the ramps on the trailer.
If the big exclamation point light in the instrument panel ever came on out on the track, it never caught my attention. It only started to flicker at me after taxiing back to my trailer and climbing the ramps on the trailer.
That happened to me once when the car was relatively new to me; as I went off the track and let it idle in the pit lane, I got low oil pressure warning until the car cooled back down. By now I'd know better, I'd run a cool-down lap. Or maybe I wouldn't need to as I have installed an extra oil cooler for exactly this reason.
I just recently bought a '88 N/A 944, "as is" with a similar knocking sound, for cheap, about 2 months ago. I took the cross support off and pulled the oil pan off, #2 rod was dis-colored , I was hoping to get lucky and maybe it was just the bearing, and not into the crank. Unfortunetly he drove it too long and it had light damage to the crank, necessitating engine removal.
I disassembled engine and also found gouging to the #2 cylinder wall from bearing shavings apparently. # 3 rod bearing was also starting to head south also. This was because prev. owner was not checking oil enough and it was his daily driver. The car was worth saving to me -it has a nice interior and body [white/black].
Now I am looking at either 1] finding a good used block, [which I am finding is more difficult than anticipated], 2] a good used engine-cheapest way out. 3] boring original block to oversize and going with Wossner pistons- probably the best bust also the most expensive. I talked to Mike at Lindsey Racing who is most knowledgeable - Cost: $700 to bore block and re-treat. $800 for a set of Wossner oversize pistons. $200 to ship ground frieght to Oklahoma- round trip.
If you decide to go rebuild route, and race it, I would also recommend having Mike at Lindsey re-drill crank, done properly - you should eliminate any more problems with bottom end. Cost $399. If you can re-build yourself, total cost around $2700-2800, [if you dont need clutch]. I personally think it is the way to go if your racing a 944- should be very reliable if done correctly.
That clutch is gross. Replace the needle bearings in the fork and also the pilot bearing in the crank. Then, just buy an aftermarket italian spring center clutch disc and a new throw out bearing. Have .010"-.20" taken off the flywheel. It'll be cheaper than a clutch kit; your pressure plate is probably fine. Make a judgement call. Clean and lube the fork pin or replace if it has deep grooves in it from the fork needle bearings. Replace all the flywheel bolts with new. Replace the rear main seal while you are in there. This is the type of job where it doesnt pay to be cheap. Even if a clutch is realistically only an 8 hour job, it's not something I want to do twice because I didn't do it right the first time.
cost should be ~650 bucks.
Post a pic of the pressure plate, if it's in as rough shape as the flywheel and clutch you won't have a choice but to buy a clutch kit, which are only available with german sachs clutch discs I believe. That would likely be cheaper than purchasing a separate throwout bearing + italian clutch disc + pressure plate.
That clutch is gross. Replace the needle bearings in the fork and also the pilot bearing in the crank. Then, just buy an aftermarket italian spring center clutch disc and a new throw out bearing. Have .010"-.20" taken off the flywheel. It'll be cheaper than a clutch kit; your pressure plate is probably fine. Make a judgement call. Clean and lube the fork pin or replace if it has deep grooves in it from the fork needle bearings. Replace all the flywheel bolts with new. Replace the rear main seal while you are in there. This is the type of job where it doesnt pay to be cheap. Even if a clutch is realistically only an 8 hour job, it's not something I want to do twice because I didn't do it right the first time.
cost should be ~650 bucks.
Post a pic of the pressure plate, if it's in as rough shape as the flywheel and clutch you won't have a choice but to buy a clutch kit, which are only available with german sachs clutch discs I believe. That would likely be cheaper than purchasing a separate throwout bearing + italian clutch disc + pressure plate.
i found a centerforce clutch disc for about 180 bucks. p/n 380944. Is that what you mean by Italian?
09-05-2016, 06:59 PM
