Tremelune

I gave up my '84 NA a decade or so ago, and I'm considering getting back into one of these cars. I'm just trying to figure out how wide my net could be. Would I have to find a rare S2, or I could I find any 951 and modify it intelligently to attain my goals for the car (a smooth, quiet grand tourer). I won't be satisfied with the power output of an NA, and a well-sorted LS swap in black would be a rare bird indeed...

I like the power of a 951, I just don't like turbos. I've driven Saab and Volvo turbos from the era, as well as a 930. The rush from the turbo was wonderful, but the lag was awful. Specifically, I want immediate power throughout the rev range (to an extent), even if it is less than it could be.

A trend that I've noticed in the 930 community is upgrading the turbo to a modern system, which is purported to get rid of the lag (if that is a prominent goal). Is this overstated, or are people having good luck in this area with 951s?

morghen

Get a 951, strap a twin scroll properly sized and trimmed modern turbo to it

raleighBahn

You will still get lag - but you can shorten it with the standard tunes. The rogue chips dial some of it out, the freer flowing exhaust some more, and some method of boost control even more. You can have the turbo rebuilt and more yet. But you'll still have it - and truth is the lag followed by insane acceleration is what has most of us addicted.

For a lag free porsche, there is no substitute for NA displacement. I'd recommend a 968 or a Cayman, depending on where you want your engine placed.

Van

I'm going to suggest that it's the *lag* that makes the rush from the turbo so wonderful!

While modern 911 turbos make a lot more power than a 951 and have very little lag, they don't *feel* nearly as entertaining.

mike77

a smooth, quiet grand tourer

How about a 928?

mrgreenjeans

Totally agree in entirety.

If you don't get addicted to this style of driving, there is really no use in getting a 951. It is one of the joys of ownership.

I have an early built turbo of '89 vintage, purchased from a well respected track enthusiast and friend, and in many ways love the power as much as my normally aspirated Carrera 3.2, even tho it's different in 'feel'. The turbo is considerably faster; more refined.
It doesn't share the same silken aesthetic as any of my 'N/As have; it is raw and ethereal at the same time.
And rapid. Very lacking in lag which is more noticeable in the 217 hp early turbos. ( but that has been tweaked away by some judicious fettling by the p.o. who surely knew what he was doing when he put in the CUP chip from Porsche.

Please remove all interest in putting a v/8 from some old Camaro or Impala in a turbo or an N/A..... once you have driven a well sorted car with 300 hp or more at the rear wheels with Porsche authority at the command, you will wonder what all the hoopla is about.

Yellowbyrd

As I look back over my 40+ years of sports car enthusiasm, I can think of no car that enthralled me more than my '86 951. And yes, climbing that boost curve was always a rush. I still miss it.

DasSilberWedge

this.

porscharu

When talking about updating turbos on this vintage of ecm your first thought should go to tuning. I come from the world of 32bit ecu's with tables for nearly every parameter and real time editing and flashing. Unless purchasing a "kit" there need to be some custom exhaust and intercooler piping as well. IF you wanted to go down this rabbit whole a gtx2867r with tial turbine housing would be a good compact setup with ease of install. Another option are the small farm efr's but will be harder to fit up. (Precision makes some good turbos for the money) In reference to the lag comment I would say it s negligible. What I mean is I think you are referring to boost threshold i.e. at what rpm you are reaching full boost. This only matter from a stand still and a higher launch rpm can cure just about anything. The other thing to consider is "lag" is reduced with increased engine load which isn't always the case on an n/a. You could have a turbo car with a boost threshold of 1,500 rpm but it would quickly be out of its efficiency range and torque would taper to a cliff. The key is area under the torque curve. If none of this intimidates you then dive in but t doesn't sound like a 951 is what you are looking for.

Van

Lag is the time delay between when you step on the gas and when you feel the "go" as you get pressed back in the seat.

There was an old joke about having to "mail" your throttle request to the engine of a 930... And another old joke that in the 930 you step on the gas and then spell "t-u-r-b-o" - by the time you got to the "r" you were doing 90 MPH, backwards.

As posted, there are ways to minimize lag with modern compressor designs, customs tunes, improved plumbing, etc. But, personally, I think that takes some of the "charm" away from these cars. YMMV.

87 944 C

Ok modern...I've driven a 951, a 92 stealth turbo and a newer evo.

The stealth I find the most amusing since turbo spools at 2200 and balloons torque to 315lb at that given number, which really is fun in that car, other than 1st you can apply that power smoothly, and without the turbos or before they spool there's plenty of go. These cars are gt styled and comfort on par with that era 928 and performed with 911s. Mine still does

The evo, quick to spool, very short gearing makes it pull like hell to 70 and then dead after that. Comfort, eh not really. It's a small turbo and that's why it spools quickly.

I agree the 928 is a good option in terms of smooth response. It's the power or more than the 944 but all motor.

944, late spool because small engine big turbo. That simple. Enlarge displacement and itll spool sooner or decrease the turbo size.

Cyberpunky

I love the lag, as car is still relatively quick off boost and it lets the other guy think he has a chance

Arahant

I can understand not liking the turbo lag, when you go through alot of the posts in this forum you will see alot of people talking about it, and what they can do to elminate it/reduce it... and as some other people have mentioned you do have options.

If your going to stick with a stock turbo, you can get a boost enhancer which causes the turbo to spool up quicker.. so instead of reaching full boost at say 4-4.5k you reach it at 3-3.5k... which is a decent difference.

But I think the main problem is the 951 just lacks power up untill full boost, even then its not bad power but you will get used to it pretty quickly and alot of people will want more... but if you can increase your power levels so that even when your not in full boost you still have decent power... it will help alot.

For instance if you have a regular 951 and not one of the later 250hp stock models... you have something like 215-220hp stock at full boost, I'm not sure what the HP levels are like at lower RPM's but its probably starts out around 100hp at 1000rpm's. If you throw some modifications onto your car and boost your peak HP to 300, and have it so at lower RPM"s have what you would normaly have at peak, around 200.... it will go along way in making you feel comfortable even when your not at peak boost.... and even more so at peak boost.

There really is quite abit of affordable modifications you can get to get your car to 300hp and beyond.

LS swaps are viable but peoples opinions vary, its not nessicarily cheap to do, however if you want 400+ hp its one of the cheapest ways to get there, you just have to be ok with the fact that the car isn't really the same 944/951 anymore without a porsche engine. I could see myself having one, but only as a secondary car to another normal 951.

V2Rocket

otherwise-standard 951 with a 3" exhaust and a MAF conversion spools like crazy

PorscheDude1

Not that...