Tires?
09-02-2014, 01:28 PM
#31
Most of what you say makes sense! and I'll ask about the one thing that doesn't in a moment.
First let me address what I quoted... I think that is the problem in a nutshell. Today's wheels are bigger so today's tires are bigger. There seem to be three generations of Michelin Pilot Alpin tires on Tire Rack. The oldest is available only in one size, for an 18" wheel, most likely because that's all they have left and it's the size nobody wanted. The next newest generation, the one prior to current, is available in four sizes, one 16", one 17", and two 18". Again, not being the current product, that's probably all they have left. The current generation is available in about 11 sizes for 18" to 20" wheels, and was probably never made for smaller wheels (I'm guessing).
The Tire Rack article didn't explicitly rank the tires in terms of 1st place, 2nd place, etc., but what seemed to me the obvious 2nd-place tire of the bunch, the Pirelli, is available in sizes down to 16".
Michelin does make winter tires for wheels as small as 14". They are in the "studless ice and snow" category and would probably not be good for my needs, as they would be far more optimized for true winter conditions that are more constant than what I'm likely to experience.
Now, what I don't understand from what you've said is why a smaller-diameter wheel and taller tire is better in winter conditions. I understand why a narrower tire is better, but given the same overall wheel/tire diameter, I don't understand why a smaller diameter wheel/taller tire is better in winter. I understand the trade offs in general, such as a short-sidewall tire can feel harsher, bigger wheels are more easily damaged, etc. But I don't understand what it is specifically about winter that makes a small diameter wheel/tall tire better in terms of performance or traction.
First let me address what I quoted... I think that is the problem in a nutshell. Today's wheels are bigger so today's tires are bigger. There seem to be three generations of Michelin Pilot Alpin tires on Tire Rack. The oldest is available only in one size, for an 18" wheel, most likely because that's all they have left and it's the size nobody wanted. The next newest generation, the one prior to current, is available in four sizes, one 16", one 17", and two 18". Again, not being the current product, that's probably all they have left. The current generation is available in about 11 sizes for 18" to 20" wheels, and was probably never made for smaller wheels (I'm guessing).
The Tire Rack article didn't explicitly rank the tires in terms of 1st place, 2nd place, etc., but what seemed to me the obvious 2nd-place tire of the bunch, the Pirelli, is available in sizes down to 16".
Michelin does make winter tires for wheels as small as 14". They are in the "studless ice and snow" category and would probably not be good for my needs, as they would be far more optimized for true winter conditions that are more constant than what I'm likely to experience.
Now, what I don't understand from what you've said is why a smaller-diameter wheel and taller tire is better in winter conditions. I understand why a narrower tire is better, but given the same overall wheel/tire diameter, I don't understand why a smaller diameter wheel/taller tire is better in winter. I understand the trade offs in general, such as a short-sidewall tire can feel harsher, bigger wheels are more easily damaged, etc. But I don't understand what it is specifically about winter that makes a small diameter wheel/tall tire better in terms of performance or traction.
09-02-2014, 03:02 PM
#32
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Now, what I don't understand from what you've said is why a smaller-diameter wheel and taller tire is better in winter conditions. I understand why a narrower tire is better, but given the same overall wheel/tire diameter, I don't understand why a smaller diameter wheel/taller tire is better in winter. I understand the trade offs in general, such as a short-sidewall tire can feel harsher, bigger wheels are more easily damaged, etc. But I don't understand what it is specifically about winter that makes a small diameter wheel/tall tire better in terms of performance or traction.
1) Cost - this is obvious
2) Risk of damage to tire sidewall and bent rims
3) Sidewall compliance. Expecting a low profile tire to provide maximum traction in low mu conditions is not optimal. You are relying on just the treadpattern and rubber compound to maintain traction. By providing more compliance (via more sidewall), more traction is available under severe conditions.
Low profile tires, in general, provide better cornering traction when it's dry. This is usually not the case when there is snow or slush present. An argument could be made that a lower profile tire will perform better in the wet (assuming warm(ish) weather) - but there is still a fine line between compliance and grip.
I get the idea you want to lock-in on the "high-performance" label that Tire Rack has placed on their particular group of winter tires. It is really just that - a label. In my mind, that label applies to summer tires more so than winter tires. That label makes sense when comparing lap times on a track, cornering forces and usually comes with a low treadwear rating.
When it comes to winter tires - the operative word should be "safety". What is going to give you the most traction when road conditions are not good? If you still want to corner at the limit and buy a new set of winter tires every two or three years - then maybe the label really is accurate.
I'll keep bringing up the Nokian WR G3, because I think that is the kind of tire you should consider as your second set. Tire Rack does not carry Nokian - but I think you'll find it would be a perfectly satisfactory and safe tire for places that deal with mild winters. Depending on the size you choose, they are available in either H or V speed rating. This means you could drive at 100+ mph and the tire would not overheat. That is one measure of performance. Is that what Tire Rack means?
Regardless of the label - you want a tire that provides you with confidence and capability (another measure of performance) in wintery conditions. With the latest offerings from most manufacturers, you will get that. The Pirellis are probably perfectly adequate for this.
With regard to the "studless" term - this generally refers to a tire that offers good ice traction capability, without the need for studs. It usually involves a very soft rubber compound and lots of siping. The compromise to these tires is that they will wear very quickly if used when the roads are dry or warm. They also suffer from a great deal of tread squirm. This can be a little disconcerting to those not aware of this condition. This type of tire is really best used where winters are severe.
