rsabeebe

I have so far tried to install the upper balance shaft seal and pretty much destroyed it in the process. The seal was going to be an obvious tight fit, based on lining it up with the opening. I'm wondering if anyone here has ever put seals in the freezer for a period of time before attempting an install. if so, how long in the freezer does the job typically? i honestly do not see any other way for the seals that I received to go in (clearly labeled as the correct seals). thoughts? thanks!!

Van

My thought is you're doing something wrong. They should press about half-way in with your finger, then some gentle taps will finish the job.

Be aware that they are different for each balance shaft - one is larger than the other by 1mm... one is for clockwise rotation (upper shaft) and one is for counterclockwise rotation (lower shaft). The lower one is the larger one.

This video shows installing the seals - around the half way point:

rsabeebe

i watched your vid after having difficulty. i bet you are absolutely right - i probably grabbed the lower seal and tried to install in the upper location. i was unaware that they were different diameters!!

i'll take a look and see if that's exactly what i did. that would explain a lot.

thanks van.

NM'87 951

Subscribed. You have another that shows the first part too if I'm not mistaken. Had those book'd on my old HD and used for study.

rsabeebe

van, it looks like you might be right, but here's the problem i have with all this. below you'll see the seals i received, minus the one i buggered up and tossed already. only 2 seals came in boxes and they are listed as 'camshaft' and 'cam/bal' on the boxes, as you can see. the other 2 seals, were loose. just checking the fit, it looks like one of them will fit the upper balance shaft and the one in the 'camshaft' box will fit the crank. that probably leaves the lower balance (the one i have destroyed) and the camshaft, which appears to be the same seal as the upper balance. if this is correct, i should be okay, because i opted not to change any seal/o-rings on the cam housing. the thing is, if these are coming loose in a bag like this and mismatched seals in the wrong boxes, you pretty much need to know which is which to do it right. i hope i can still do the crank and 2 balance seals with what i have.

can someone confirm that the lower balance seal is exact dimensions as the camshaft seal? does that sound right?

mel_t_vin

No, they are different parts/dimensions.

The seal on the left box [999.113.282.40] marked, "cam/bal", is the cam seal [30x47 mm] for all 944/1 cars and the upper balance shaft seal on all 944 cars. The seal on the right box [999.113.349.40] marked, "camshaft seal", is the cam seal [32x47 mm] for all 944/2 cars.

For the lower balance shaft, you still need one more seal, 999.113.281.40, 30x48 mm.

KevinGross

Van, nice video, thanks for sharing.

Kevin
Catellus Engineering

rsabeebe

getting a handle on this...

the lower balance seal is the 30x48x7 - 999-113-281-40
the upper balance seal is the 30x47x7 - 999-113-282-40
the cam seal is 32x47x7 - 999-113-349-40

so, what is the remaining seal in the pic? the cam oil seal?

i thought this kit came with a crank seal, but it apparently doesn't. that seal looks to be 999-113-331-40

i'll make sure the upper bal. seal fits before i order the crank and lower bal. seal this time.

thanks for all the info.

Van

Be aware there's an early and late crank seal...

ninjacoco

Ugh, these seals are misery, plus the early/late update didn't happen right at 1985.5 with the rest of the car. My '84 has late seals, IIRC.

Our seal-destroying (many, many destroyed in the process...%$#&!) issue was that one of our shafts was sleeved. This meant that we couldn't get it over the rough edge without annhilating it (and had trouble wondering why this ONE was squared off when the others were all round) and it was a tighter fit that no one made a seal for. Ugh.

Heat works better than cool when it comes to making these dumb things pliable, and make sure your rubber's well-lubed before sticking it in (huh, huh).

If you're dealing with a seal-killing rough edge like ours had, could it be sleeved? Usually the sleeve pulls right out so you can more carefully fit the inside, then press the whole assembly back once the inside is secure and has a tight fit--being careful not to knacker the outer edge, of course.

harveyf

For my first 944 engine projects, I purchased the bulk "front end", "top end" and "bottom end" gasket sets. I think of them as "bulk stuff in a bag". In general, I try to identify the seal on the PET drawing, get its part number, and match it to the part number embossed on the seal. The seals and the PET also generally show a size in mm's, which is an alternate check. Of course, before you take the old ones out you could try and read the part numbers on them and make some notes.

What's maddening about the "bulk stuff in a bag" approach is the o-rings, which are not big enough to have a part number. In some cases, the PET will give a size in mm's, which you can use to make your selection.

And finally, there will be seals, gaskets, o-rings, and washers left over.

rsabeebe

i couldn't agree more, harvey. getting a "bag o' seals" - some in boxes, some not, variety of o-rings, and even a few pieces you likely won't need - isn't the best approach from a vendor to a DIY'er. of course, if these go to a mechanic/shop, less of an issue, but most of us here are the DIY'er types. a bit of delineation would go a long way.

i did have a chance to install the upper balance shaft this weekend and it went in a hell of lot easier than the lower balance seal in that same location. too bad i didn't spend a little more time checking all the seals for proper fitment before trying the initial seal. now i need to order a crank seal - the correct one - and a new lower. eventually, i might get this thing back together...

Voith

The most similar two with opposing rotation lines are balance seals.

eman930

I'm having the same problem, doing both my balance shafts, I think. I have the correct on installed in my lower balance shaft but the upper one I can't find the correct seal, The ID on the 3 seals I have left are all too big.... I wish they just bag a label these seals....

rsabeebe

since Van has mentioned that there are early and late crank seals, i want to make sure the wrong seal isn't ordered and i don't lose another weekend of getting this completed. looking at pelican's online catalog, i see the below:

Crankshaft Seal (Oil Pump) (38 X 52 X 7 mm, Front)
924 S and 944 S Coupe (1987-88), 944 Coupe with Manual Transmission (1984) Note: from Engine # 43E14859
944 Coupe with Auto Transmission (1984) Note: from Engine # 43E21784, 944 Coupe (1985-89)
944 S2 Convertible (1989-91), 944 S2 Coupe (1989-91)
944 Turbo Coupe (1986-89), 968 Convertible (1992-95)
968 Coupe (1992-95)

it clearly seems to be indicating that the 38x52x7 seal is correct for 86-89 951s. am i missing something or is this the seal i want? i assume it is, but i trust Van enough to know to ask before making the purchase today.

thanks!!