xschop

Has this conversion been done/attempted?

morghen

I have M030 brakes on my red 924 turbo (the one in my avatar)

I use the 951S non M030 front spindle(with early strut and a-arm) + an adaptor to fit the M030 caliper. Disks are bolt-on.
I use the 951S rear arms + the required 2mm washers to run the calipers. Disks and calipers for the rears are the same between the 951S and the 951S M030.

So it can be done if you use the late front spindle and proper adapters & washers.

xschop

I know its been done on a late spindle. A local racer wants to keep the early control arms/offset and 16" Fuchs.
I searched and didn't see anyone build a rotor hat and adapters.

Dougs951S

I'm running early 951 spindles and brakes, I'd also like m030 brakes and the ability to keep my early offset. I'll be watching this.

xschop

We need to know the mounting dims of the M030 caliper before we proceed. I have the tech specs for the equivalent size/performance SL4R caliper and The adapter would be strong enough. Not to mention better pad selection.

ideola

Yes, this can be done. The best option is to source spindles and hubs from a 1986 951. They are unique to that model year. They have the proper 94mm spacing for the Brembo calipers, but also retain the correct geometry for the early offset control arms, and the early rebuildable strut housings.

The late spindles can be used on early offset arms, but then you have to get the late offset strut housings, which are not rebuildable. Furthermore, if you intend to keep early offset control arms, then you will need adjustable camber plates to be able to get the alignment correct. So best just to source spindles from the 86 951.

As implied above, you will also need to source the matching hubs, which again, are unique to the 86 951. Also the 86 951 front rotors, which mount behind the hubs (late offset rotors mount over the hubs, easier to service).

Be aware that NONE of the Brembo-compatible spindles have a speedometer cable hole. So you will either need have a machinist drill the hole for you, or convert to some other speedo drive, such as wheel speed sensor or GPS speedo (which is what I did in the 931 Club Sport)

Rear Brembo calipers will bolt up to any 5-lug setup (steel or alu trailing arms). However, be aware that if you are using early offset alu trailing arms, you cannot use the later M030 rotors, as the later style of rotors will not fit over the early style hubs and handbrake assemblies, so it's best (required?) to also source rear rotors for 86 951.

I would be happy to quote rotors, pads, hardware kits, and any other parts you might need as part of the conversion. I have some of it listed on my site, but not all, so if you need parts, send me a PM or email and I can put together a package quote for you.

Reference materials:
Performance Mods: Suspension Upgrades: http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=218957#218957
Illustrated 5-lug conversion: http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=27357
924/944 Hub & Spindle Metrics: http://garage.ideola.com/downloads/I...le-metrics.xls
Hub & Spindle Mystery: http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=27477
Club Sport build thread: http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31912

MAGK944

I agree with everything ideola says ^^ However if this is a track car I would be tempted to go the route of later hubs & spindles simply because they are stronger and the rotors are easier to swap.

As ideola says you would need 87+ struts to match the spindles and camber plates to dial back the camber you lose with early arms on late spindles but I don't think that should be an obstacle for the other positives this provides. If your are worried about losing the ability to rebuild the struts, cut and fit the later struts with Koni inserts.

xschop

The problem is he has an 86 turbo and those calipers and spindle mounts are AXIAL 94mm C2C and tthe rotor is only 298x28. I've done a swap using those calipers/spindles and Wilwood 2-piece rotors with custom hats before. The M030 calipers and spindles are 130mm C2C RADIAL and the M030 rotors are 304x32. I'm just not sure how the brackets would turn out.

Joel8005

Indeola,

Nice work and share or knowledge, thumbs up to xschop also!!!

Cheers,

morghen

I use the early control arms(steel) with modified early shock housings and i mate them to 951S spindles.
Basically i have the same offset as a normal 944NA but late spindle.
The M030 front calipers mount radially instead of axially. thats why i use adaptors.

The problem when trying to use M030 disks and calipers with early spindles is not the caliper...but disk mounting..
The M030 disks have deep hats as they sit on top of the factory hub.
IIRC late hubs wont fit on early spindles(shorter axle?) so the only thing you can do is to mod your shock housings to accept late spindles and buy/make adaptors for the calipers.
The standard 931/944 brake ducts will fit the M030 calipers.

EDIT: using the late spindles on early arms and shock housings restricts your camber range...dont remember how much it restricts...but i run some negative on the fronts.

xschop

I really enjoy writing a long reply then getting the reply dropped because of login issues.
Anyways basically you get +4 camber if you mod the early strut for late spindle without building custom adapters that get rid of it. I convinced the guy to get rid of the 86T hub because I've seen more failures of them.
Did you guys have issue mounting taller M030 rotor to shorter Non- M030 hub. Specifically where the inner rotor face comes close to the spindle/caliper mounts?
We want to avoid running a spacer between hub an rotor.

MAGK944

There's about a 4 degree (positive) difference at the strut mount between early and late spindles, so yes you most likely need camber plates to dial back negative camber at the strut tower. You can clearly see the difference in the pic below (apologies for the bad phone photo)...

xschop

Thanks for pic MagK. I did a write-up on the strut mod when I built my 948. The adapters are PITA to machine but they do get rid of the +4 deg camber at the spindle interface.
I should get the M030 rotor this weekend and whatever caliper he decides. I'll keep posted what I build.

morghen

After this mod my car is within 924 Carrera GT geometry specs and there is more room for more negative camber if wanted/needed.
Ofcourse this because I reshaped the upper strut mount hole...its part of the mod to accept late spindles.

I run this setup since a couple of years, not too much stress on the components tho. Some sporty driving and some high speed driving on the autobahn..but no track days.

xschop

Thanks Morghen. There is also 2mm of gap that has to be dealt with properly at the spindle/strut clamp when simply milling the strut if you go that route.