wjk_glynn

...to see more photos, scroll down to the bottom of the post...


UPDATE: The car is sold.


--------------------- Original message advertising the car ---------------------


Hi folks,

After owning my 944 S2 for 12 years, it's time for a change and so I'm offering it for sale.

The details...

Summary

• Model: 944 S2 Coupe
• Year: 1991
• VIN: WP0AB294XMN410197
• Color: Black exterior, black interior
• Transmission: 5-speed manual, open differential (no LSD)
• Wheels: 17" Porsche OEM 993 Cup-II rims with colored crests (17x7 ET55 and 17x9 ET55) / Avon Tech M500 tires (205/50WR-17, 255/40WR-17) purchased in 2005
• Mileage: 141K miles as of May 2013
• CarFax Report: http://www.weissach.net/WP0AB294XMN4...2013.05.09.pdf
• Warranty: None, the car is being sold 'as is' in its existing condition
• Location: San Jose, CA
• Asking Price: $7,500 -or- best offer (Update: The car is sold)
  • The Excellence Magazine 2012 Buyer's Guide lists the low-to-high price range of a 944 S2 Coupe as being $7,100-$9,300
  • Nada "classic" retail price guide from low-to-high for a S2 Coupe is $9,100-$15,400 (as of 5/26/2013)
• Owner Contact Details: Deleted

Option Codes - Using data from: http://www.cantonia.com/option_codes.html

• 454 - Cruise Control
• 490 - HiFi Sound System
• 494 - Amplifier System or 2x speakers on the back shelf. This one is a mystery as there was no additional amplifier in the car. The car did have an OEM Blaupunkt graphic equalizer which I removed and replaced with the stock shelf.
• 573 - Air conditioning
• 650 - Sun Roof
• 946 - Leather Seats

My history with the car

• I purchased the car with 99K miles in 2001.
• For the first few years, I was putting on about 7-8K miles/year
• During that time, I did 2-3 track days and approximately 10-12 autocrosses
• With the arrival of kids, things slowed down and I would drive it about once per week to work - mostly to maintain the engine seals, keep the battery charged, etc.
• Then in 2009, I decided to refresh the car with an eye to doing track days. I spent a lot of money going through it on both the mechanical and suspension side.
• Since the refresh, I've done probably another 10-ish track days with it - the majority in the A-novice group, and the rest at the B-intermediate level
• But as happens, I do have a wandering eye and recently I was in a mood to change after 12 years of ownership. This car for sale is actually my second S2, I owned a red one for a few years in the mid-nineties. All up I've about 15 years of S2 experience.
• I purchased a BMW 135i in April - so this S2 is now offered for sale.

General condition

• Excellent mechanical condition with less than 8K miles on many major service items (e.g. clutch, oilpan gasket, etc.)
• Major suspension upgrades at 134K miles (e.g. Koni coilovers, rear torsion-bar delete, etc.)
• Exterior paint is what I'd call a "good 20-footer", but not a concours car. Each rim has some form of curb rash.
• Interior is excellent, and there are no dash cracks
• Feels strong, drives superbly

Major Service Items

• 2011 / 138K miles
  • New engine timing and balance belts
• 2010 / 137K miles
  • New oil cooler lines
• 2009 / 134K to 135K miles
  • New front lower control arms
  • New front wheel bearings
  • New clutch (Sachs KF782-01), guide tube, fork bearing and slave
  • Reseal transaxle
  • New oil pan gasket
  • New engine mounts
• 2008 / 133K miles
  • New radiator
• 2005 / 129K miles
  • New engine belts/tensioners/rollers
  • Reseal the front of the engine
• 2002 / 108K to 116K miles
  • New high pressure fuel lines (body to rail) to minimize fire hazard
  • New camshaft-chain and camshaft-tensioner-pad

Suspension upgrades

• 2012 / 139K miles
  • Installed KLA Strut Brace: http://www.klaindustries.net/968strut/968strut.htm
• 2009 / 134K miles
  • Koni “A1-Cup” Kit from Paragon Products, with Hypercoil springs (F 300 lbs/in, R 400 lbs/in): http://www.paragon-products.com/Coil...ni_cup_kit.htm
  • Rear coilover conversion (i.e. rear torsion bars are uninstalled and are supplied with the car)
  • Elephant Racing polybronze spring-plate bearings: http://www.elephantracing.com/suspen...44bushings.htm
  • Racer’s Edge MC-3500 adjustable front camber plates: http://www.racersedge-inc.com/racers...25718E0044D28E
  • 968 M030 sway bars (front 30mm, rear 19mm adjustable)
  • 968 M030 front castor blocks
• Note: With these components fitted, the track-orientated handling is very good and a vast improvement over the old stock components. However, there is more NVH because there are more solid suspension mounts (e.g. rear coilovers, front camber plates), and some of the components squeak.

Alignment

• I had been running a track alignment (e.g. -2.5° front camber, -3.0° rear camber)
• On May 20th, I had the aligment set to a more street friendly configuration. The work was done by Custom Alignment in Mountain View: http://www.customalignment.com/
• The new settings are:
  • Front
    • Camber: -1.0°
    • Caster: 4.0°
    • Total Toe: 1/16"
  • Rear
    • Camber: -2.2° (i.e. the least amount of negative camber achievable at the current rear ride height)
    • Total Toe: 3/32"
    • Thrust Angle: 0.0°

Brakes

• Currently fitted with stock-sized Zimmerman rotors
• The brake pads are Pagid RS14 "Blacks" - great at the track, but they do squeal... a lot.
• Also installed are the air deflectors from the 968 on the lower control arms. These route additional cooling air to the rotors.
• Brake fluid is ATE super blue, the last flush was in March 2012
• Stainless steel brake lines replace the OEM rubber lines
• I don't experience any brake fade with this setup when running track days (DEs) at Laguna Seca, a place that's notoriously hard on brakes.

Engine

• When I was buying the car back in 2001, there were 3x 944 S2s for sale in the Bay Area at that time, and naturally I test drove all of them.
• They all had their pros and cons, but the one I bought definitely pulled harder than the other two - at least according to my butt-dyno
• In 2002 at 110K miles, I had the car dynoed on a Dynojet 248H (at DSR) as part of a dyno-day organized by a fellow Rennlister:
  • My S2 made 187 wheel hp, which roughly approximates to 220 crank hp if you assume 15% drivetrain loss (thought it's important to take any dyno results with a large grain of salt)
  • Here's a link to an ancient discussion on the results: https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...ock-944s2.html
  • Here's a link to the dyno chart: http://www.weissach.net/images/DynoC...E_20020907.jpg
• Porsche says the 944 S2 makes 208 crank hp, but there's always example-to-example variations and it would appear that my S2 was one of the stronger ones based on comparative test drives of other S2s, and the dyno results.
• As far as I know, it's a totally stock engine and I've made no modifications to it at all. But I never actually cracked the DME open to see if it's been "chipped".
• It still feels as strong today (31K miles later) as I recall it was back in 2002. But I don't have independant data to prove that.
• One thing to note is that a friend has seen a small puff of black smoke from the exhaust when changing gear during hard acceleration at the track. I'm no expert, but as I understand it when you see a puff of black smoke in those conditions, it usually means it's just unburnt fuel from the engine trying to compensate for the heavy load.

Oil consumption

• In March I checked the oil consumption and driving around San Jose (suburban environment), it's consuming 1 qt of oil in ~3K miles based on the following calculation:
  • Filled the oil up to the top mark on the dip stick
  • Drove the car every day for bit over 3-weeks
  • The oil level dropped ~10% of the way down after 489 miles of suburban driving
  • From the bottom mark on the dip stick to the top mark is 1.6 qts (per the owner's manual)
  • Hence an estimated consumption rate of 1 qt every 3K (suburban) miles
• At the track, the oil consumption is much higher. 1-2 qts over 5x 20-min track sessions in a day.

Exterior cosmetics

• Good, not perfect.
• The car has been re-sprayed at some point and for the most part, it's in good condition given the age and mileage.
• There are just two issues:
  1. There is oxidation on the roof around the sunroof panel - this has appeared in the last 2 years. The fading is isolated to the roof panel, doesn't extend down the A/B/C pillars.
  2. There is 2-inch crack in the paint on the front left fender (presumably there's bondo underneath that spot) - that appeared about 3 years ago
• So while the car was obviously hit to require painting, there doesn't appear to be any frame damage. It's a straight car as far as I can tell, and it's been looked over many, many times by various shops.
• I myself have had two fender-benders, with both the front-bumper and rear-bumper needing repair & paint. Each repair was less than $800.
• The CarFax report is clean, so I'm guessing any issues were small enough to not involve insurance companies.
• As regards the rest of the paint, there's a variety of nicks, scuffs and rock-chips, and a few small dings as well - but overall good for the age and mileage
• The rims (17" 993 Cup-IIs) I'm providing with the car all have some form of curb rash to varying degrees.
• So as I said above... I'd rank it a "good 20-footer"

Interior

• Excellent condition
• The dash is pristine
• Comes with the stock "comfort" seats

Things that need replacing

• The tires on the 17" 993 Cup-II rims should be replaced.
  • While there's plenty of thread left on them, they're 8 years old.
  • I've mostly used a set of 16x8 and (quite rare) 16x9 D90 rims with Toyo R888 tires on the car, but I'm selling those rims separately - the D90s are not included with the car.
• Front brake pads
  • Loads of thinkness left on the back pads
  • But the front pads need to be replaced
  • I'm throwing in a new set of front and back Metalmaster PBR-D440M brake pads with the car should the new owner want to use them: http://www.paragon-products.com/Brak...lash-track.htm
• Brake fluid
  • The last flush with ATE Super Blue was back in March 2012
  • I'd recommend doing a new flush

Things that have aged, but didn't bug me enough to bother addressing...

• The last time the AC was recharged (with R-12) was back in 2004. It lasted about 1 year (so there's a slow leak somewhere) and I've never bothered to recharge since.
  • If I was keeping the car, I'd probably do an AC-delete next time the belts are done.
• The rear hatch has delamination at the edges. This is very common on the 944. When you drive in the rain, you get a few inches of water pooling in the right rear fender well. Rain doesn't appear anywhere else. Since I so rarely drive the car in the rain, it never really bothered me.
  • If I was keeping the car, I think I'd simply drill a drain hole in the bottom of the fender well and ignore it from there on.
• The sunroof microswitch is not correctly aligned, so to open the roof you need to poke it with something like a key. But then you have to be carefull not to force the motors past any limits because you might strip some plastic gears. Sunroofs on 944s can cause trouble. So basically I leave it closed and I don't touch it.
  • I bought a latch kit and headliner to convert the roof to manual operation.
  • I'll include these parts with the car
• The rear hatch key doesn't operate the hatch motor. You can open the hatch using the button in the driver's side footwell - so the motor works just fine. The fault (I believe) is the microswitch in the rear keylock.
• Self canceling for the left-blinker doesn't work, I think the little tab broke off. You need to cancel it manually. Right-blinker cancelation works just fine.
• LCD clock backlight is out.
  • I bought a repair kit, but never installed it.
  • I'll include that kit with the car.
• Driver's side power seat switch doesn't raise the seat - which was okay for me as I like the seat to be in the lowest position possible. The motors work just fine, it's the switch that needs replacing.

Here's some photos...

Note: Higher resolution images of the following smaller photos can be found here: http://www.weissach.net/images/944S2/large/

Exterior


Wheels


Interior


Suspension components installed in 2009


Track photos - Note that the 16x8 and 16x9 D90 rims seen in these two photos are being sold separately...


Various


The only two exterior issues - 2" paint crack on left fender, oxidation on roof panel (isolated to the roof panel, the rest of the paint is in good condition)


Higher resolution images of the smaller photos above can be found here: http://www.weissach.net/images/944S2/large/


A few video clips from the track

• 1x lap of Sears Point
  
  Sears Point - 2012.10.10 - Following a Carrera - YouTube
• 1x lap of Laguna Seca
  
  Laguna Seca - March 1, 2013 - YouTube

And then finally, if your significant other is concerned about the practicality of owning a 944...

• Short clip demonstrating the virtues of a 944 as a family car...
  
  944 S2 family car - YouTube

So I hope you can tell that I've enjoyed owning and using this 944 S2 as it was intended. It's a good car and is well sorted.

If you're interested, I look forward to hearing from you. Please use the contact details at the top of this post.

Thanks.

Karl.

PS: If you're in the SF Bay Area, I'm planning to go to the Parts Heaven swap meet on Sunday June 2nd. You can see the car there in person...

87 944 C

now that is a for sale add

good luck with the 135i, probably the best bmw out there next t he e46 m3

thirdgenbird

Great car, great modifications, great add, and great price.

If I could do things over, this would be it

FRporscheman

Looks like a great car, I'll look for it at Parts Heaven!

J Berk

very nice!!

Funny...my 91 S2 has the exact same fender crack in the paint....on the same fender.

veleno

This would be a great car for me to drive around in while in SD next month!

VirginiaF1

Its amazing to me that you can ask $7,500 for a 23 year old car that has some clear issues; as you listed. That's not an insult, in fact your S2 is rather a deal given your investments in it.
What stuns me is that for ~$2,000 less, cars.com lists a 1995 M3 w/128k and a 2001 740i w/118k for sale.
By percentage, our cars seem to depreciate far less than most every other brand.
Exceptional... GLWS!

Dougs951

Very nice add. To bad you are on the wrong coast.

wjk_glynn

Hi VirginiaF1,

I genuinely appreciate the feedback as regards the asking price, from yourself and other Rennlisters - it's a help to me and any potential buyer.

We'll see if there's interest at that price, or whether it needs to be adjusted.

Utimately I'd like to have a "fair deal" for both myself and a buyer.

Thanks.

Karl.

87 944 C

no, more to the fact that 944's are on the way up n value where as e36's and that 740i were produced about 2x as many as 944's and the m3 is about the only good 3'er back then, and very underpowered in the USA(240hp vs 320euro)

thirdgenbird

Agree.

Low production numbers and a rapidly declining population. Survivors will slowly creap up in value.

wjk_glynn

A piece of trivia I forgot to mention in the original post is that there were only 510 S2 Coupes sold in the US in 1991, it's last year of production (and the year the bridge-spoiler was introduced)... so they are as rare as hen's teeth. My S2 is #197 of the 510 in that final year.

Reasons the sales figures were so low was a combination of the economy, and the fact that its MSRP (back in 1991) was $43K, or about $73K in today's money (when you adjust for inflation). It was very expensive compared to its rivals.

When CEO Wiedeking took over in 1993, he drove a complete and very necessary revamp that changed their production processes (starting with the 993) and product design (with the 986/996) that ultimately turned Porsche into a very profitable and successful company. Something that absolutely had to be done.

The cars prior to this change were the last built by Porsche the "old" way (by gnomes in the Black Forest, all called "Dieter" ), a way that came extremely close to bankrupting the company. But they also represent an ethos and approach that we probably won't see again. They just don't make them like they used to...

Karl.

J Berk

True !

Mine is #140

VirginiaF1

Wiedeking's philosophical/profit margin revamp created the short cuts that led to IMS bearing, slipped cylinder sleeves, plastic interiors and cracked blocks of 986/996...
Long live the Pcars from the mid80's & early 90's like Karl's...

I hope to be alive in 2024 to see how many 986/996's are still running as well as our models.
What we give up in bhp/displacement and the skidpad is outweighed in longevity, dependability and of course, vintage cool.

Carrera51

I wish you were on the east coast. My dad had a black 91 S2 he bought in 1992. It was a leftover sitting among a row of 968s on the dealer lot. He had it a little less than a year when he traded it back in on his 964, which totally foiled my master plan since I thought he would keep it at least 2 years then I would have bought it from him after I graduated from college. All I remember about the car is that it was black on black, but the window sticker referred to the paint as "black metallic" or something like that.

Good luck with the sale!