Cole

Love the style of an outlaw 356 or an R-Gruppe 911. But never seem to see they same kind of style and ingenuity in cars like the 944, even though it could be an idea platform for it.

Where are all the cars that are NOT track cars, Not full luxury factory street cars , but somewhere in between?

The cars that have been stripped to the bare essentials, dressed back up a bit and then given the raw performance twist!!! Presented in it's simplest form. Kinda like taking the 944/951 back to the 60s style of sports car.

I've only seen a couple of cars that would fit this description and they were beautiful!

Seems that all I see is stuff that is "bolt on" or comes in a "kit"

catamount

Good question. A better question would be, what makes an "outlaw" when it comes to a 944/951? Is a Porsche motor a requirement? If not, look no further than the V-8 conversions as "outlaws". The next step with any of those is the updating the looks in some hot rodding style.

Cole

I'm undecided on the V8 conversion itself. Especially since I bought my car years ago with the intent of doing this swap but need up with a great running 951.

I don't think the V8 swap alone qualifies the car for outlaw status. It has to go deeper than that.

There needs to be a few specific elements included in the build in my mind. First is. Level of quality that is true to the Porsche name. Second is that it must be a street car, not a track only car. Third, it must hold a certain level of simplicity. Stripped naked of things like heavy carpet insulation, center consoles, rear seats, power mirrors, big stereos, etc.

I want to see lots of cool fab work and speed holes drilled in things to make the car simple an light!

pontifex4

Any car with a carpeted rear seat delete is heading in that direction. My car was probably a decent candidate for this when I got it: brand new dash, tuned suspension but no undercoating. But then I added a bunch of track stuff.

ZR8ED

There lies the rub. Skill. Not many with it. Also takes a lot of time, money and patience. Most want a quick fix....

Cole

"Track stuff" is fine......but......should be done at a much higher quality level than most people do with bolt in/weld in prefabed cages painted with flat black header paint. Cars that people just removed door pocket or cut holes in the dash to make their track stuff fit don't really fit the nature of what I'm talking about.

Cole

I know. So let's work on it!!

These cars hae a beautiful chassis that gets even better when some weight is shaved.

V2Rocket

heavy insulation - gone
rear seats - gone
power mirrors - gone
power sunroof - gone
power steering - gone
stereo - 4- 4x6's so not much to it
windshield washer - gone
hatch motor - gone

howabout a custom chassis front end? i can undo a few bolts and walk up to my engine to change the WP if i wanted to.

car weighs a bit over 2600lb ready to run. i have things in mind to drop another 60-80lbs in ways you'd never know the difference...

Cole

Eh, not that simple. Many 944 owned eliminate that stuff because it broke anyway!

It's not "just" about taking things off and making it lighter. Though this should be a serious component of it.


Here are a a few of the things I have thought of doing.

-cut the entire knee bolster / glove box area out of the lower dash. Take it back to a simplistic 60s style. No center console. Just a nice carpeted center section with the shift boot tied straight to the lip around the shifter.

Maybe just a simple iPhone mount and run it off a small light amp. No big bulky head unit.

Straight RS Style door panels with no arm rests or pockets. Relocated the window switches to the center dash. Simplest set up in these cars is to probably keep the power windows at the moment. This would also eliminate one I of the 3 switches. The new switch location MUST look factory.

Lightweight non power mirrors. Then get rid or all the mirror wiring and switch.

I'm sure that the doors could be lightened up quite a bit under the door panel by removing some material. Maybe dill a set of holes around the doors still to lighten the door and allow water out.

Excessive use of carbon and fiberglass where ever possible to lighten the entire set up.

Drill holes or entirely eliminate exterior door handles to add a smooth look.

Lean type rear rear window and hatch.

Cut out rear tire well and make a flat rear floor.

Widebody! Fat deep tires!!

Giantviper

OK so I think the 944 outlaws would have to still have a Porsche engine to stay with the outlaw theme. But I think the Ideal outlaw would probably look like this:

Engine: 968 3.0 ltr variocam with either Turbo or Supercharger
Transmission: 968 6 Speed manual with LSD
Brakes: 993 or 928 GTS
Suspension: Koni Yellow Coil Overs, Strut tower brace and M30 Sway bars
Weight reduction: No rear seats and sound deadening removed, no power steering, no power mirrors, no power sunroof plus any other that can be thought of.
Body mods: 931 nose panel, 931 or 944 GTS Hood, 968 tail, 944 Turbo rear valance, 17" rims
Other misc mods: 993 GT Steering wheel, 1985.5 interior with boost gauge and possibly boost controller in the space of the storage spot under the radio, possibly a roll cage.

Thoughts?

V2Rocket

Problem with the lexan hatch is that they suck for actual visibility. They fade in sunlight and they scratch if a piece of dirt comes within a mile of them.

I like the simplified dash - I have thought of this as well as the early dash has a kick panel on the pass side that could be removed, but then the AC blower would be exposed...

I like the RS door panel idea, thinking about doing that, but I do like the armrest - car is a daily for me so unsure about that. Might remove map pockets though.

Definitely worthwhile to look into FG mirror housings, the stock ones are pretty chunky surprisingly. The motors don't weigh a lot but the whole assembly does.

The doors have some interior sheet metal that could be trimmed out, especially if you use the RS style door cards. All that attaches to the doors is speakers, door pull handle, and the armrest if you have it. Leave the crash bar there unless you have door bars for a cage.

If you wanted to wire the windows to operate from center, you could use two factory sunroof switches.

Flat rear floor is good. Would be cool to show off the back of the trans.

924-76

Factory 924 outlaws: 924 Carrera GT and GTS

Cole

Haha....a clear rear floor would be kinda cool!

I think for some of this you have to toss "some" of the safety concepts out the window in the sense that you would be backdating some of the car to a simpler time. Probably best not to do it with a daily driver. Best to mentally treat the car like driving a motorcycle or any early car without safety features like door bars, knee bolsters on the dash, etc.

Cole

Yep, probably a good place to look for inspiration.

Though...."factory" and "outlaw" don't really go together.


Here is a nicely done early interior with some of the concepts I was talking about. I would need two seats though.

catamax944

The GTS doors are very cool but unfortunately not too practical for a street car.
There is a late 944 with the type of interior you are thinking of https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...or-panels.html
Mine is also half way there