drive your "44/68" one BILLION miles — Motor Oil Official Thread....
10-04-2010, 11:10 AM
#1
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drive your "44/68" one BILLION miles — Motor Oil Official Thread....
just to repeat: i'm officially on board ! 
mobile 1 0w-40 all year round....
Mobil 1 5w-30 also seems like a good candidate.
if you're obsessed with running a thick oil, then try Mobil 1 5w-50.
yeah.... keep runing those thick mineral and racing oils. especially when it's cold outside.
but, you might consider reading this before the next time you start your cars...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/
i spent the night into the wee hours trying to find research to support his Bob's claims,
and the effort was met with success. really good stuff. if you're using the thick stuff for the street you should
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/
Bob's favorites with *asterisk:
50 Grade:
Castrol Syntec 5W-50
Penn Platinum Synthetic 5W-50
Red Line 5W-50*
40 Grade:
Amsoil 0W-40
Castrol European Formula 0W-30 (a thicker 30 grade oil, almost a 40 grade oil)*
Mobil One 0W-40
Penn Ultra Synthetic 5W-40
Renewable Lubricants Inc. 5W-40*
30 Grade:
Mobil One 0W-30
Penn (Any) Synthetic 5W-30
Red Line 5W-20 (a thick 20 grade oil)*
Renewable Lubricants Inc. 0W-30*
now, somebody please find us a filter.
/
mobile 1 0w-40 all year round....
Mobil 1 5w-30 also seems like a good candidate.
if you're obsessed with running a thick oil, then try Mobil 1 5w-50.
yeah.... keep runing those thick mineral and racing oils. especially when it's cold outside.
but, you might consider reading this before the next time you start your cars...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/
i spent the night into the wee hours trying to find research to support his Bob's claims,
and the effort was met with success. really good stuff. if you're using the thick stuff for the street you should
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/
Bob's favorites with *asterisk:
50 Grade:
Castrol Syntec 5W-50
Penn Platinum Synthetic 5W-50
Red Line 5W-50*
40 Grade:
Amsoil 0W-40
Castrol European Formula 0W-30 (a thicker 30 grade oil, almost a 40 grade oil)*
Mobil One 0W-40
Penn Ultra Synthetic 5W-40
Renewable Lubricants Inc. 5W-40*
30 Grade:
Mobil One 0W-30
Penn (Any) Synthetic 5W-30
Red Line 5W-20 (a thick 20 grade oil)*
Renewable Lubricants Inc. 0W-30*
now, somebody please find us a filter.
/
Last edited by odurandina; 10-04-2010 at 01:05 PM.
10-04-2010, 12:52 PM
#4
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this motor oil thread is sooo over-rated but, there are soooooooooo many oil threads......... i finally got jealous. 
i think Bob's page rocks. but if you have a worn out engine,
it's very tempting to remain cautious about his "thinner is better" philosophy.
for engines in good condition, those cold starts look pretty bad.
for the older engines, one solution might be fresh rod bearings. my engine probably could benefit from getting them done.
where do you buy the Mahle filters ?
i think Bob's page rocks. but if you have a worn out engine,
it's very tempting to remain cautious about his "thinner is better" philosophy.
for engines in good condition, those cold starts look pretty bad.
for the older engines, one solution might be fresh rod bearings. my engine probably could benefit from getting them done.
where do you buy the Mahle filters ?
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10-04-2010, 07:29 PM
#8
10-04-2010, 08:28 PM
#9
No, not Mosquito!
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10-04-2010, 08:43 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
OK time to chime in:
Compare these two products and how the manufacturer markets them:
http://www.mobil1.co.nz/products/product_5W50.aspx
http://www.mobil1.co.nz/products/product_15W50.aspx
Also consider that the worst-case lubrication scenario for the crank and rod journal bearings is at high speed, whereas the worst case for the camshafts and crank thrust bearings is at low speed, high temp eg at idle with the engine hot and with the clutch depressed.
The challenge with engine/lube design is that there are so many contrasting requirements. so many failure patterns on engines can be traced back to pattern of use. Idling an engine is one of the worst things you can do in general, which is why Porsche specifically advise against it in the 944 S2 driver's manual.
Compare these two products and how the manufacturer markets them:
http://www.mobil1.co.nz/products/product_5W50.aspx
http://www.mobil1.co.nz/products/product_15W50.aspx
Also consider that the worst-case lubrication scenario for the crank and rod journal bearings is at high speed, whereas the worst case for the camshafts and crank thrust bearings is at low speed, high temp eg at idle with the engine hot and with the clutch depressed.
The challenge with engine/lube design is that there are so many contrasting requirements. so many failure patterns on engines can be traced back to pattern of use. Idling an engine is one of the worst things you can do in general, which is why Porsche specifically advise against it in the 944 S2 driver's manual.
10-04-2010, 09:14 PM
#12
Proprietoristicly Refined
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10-04-2010, 09:32 PM
#13
Nordschleife Master
The only part you need to read is..
"The penalty is the startup thickness also goes up to 100. This is better than being up at 250 as a straight 30 grade oil though. Oil with a startup thickness of 100 that becomes the appropriate thickness of 10 when fully warmed up is called a 10W-30 grade motor oil. This is NOT as thick as a straight 30 grade oil at startup and it is NOT as thin as a straight 10 grade oil at full operating temperature.
The downside of a mineral based multi-grade oil is that this VII additive wears out over time and you end up with the original straight 10 grade oil. It will go back to being too thin when hot. It will have a thickness of 6 instead of 10. This may be why Porsche (according to some people) does not want a 0W-30 but rather a 10W-30. If the VII wears out the 0W-30 will ultimately be thinner, a straight 0 grade oil. When the VII is used up in the 10W-30 oil it too is thinner. It goes back to a straight 10 grade oil. They are both still too thick at startup, both of them. The straight 0 grade oil, a 5 grade oil and a 10 grade oil are all too thick at startup.
This is just theory however. With normal oil change intervals the VI improver will not wear out and so the problem does not really exist. In fact, oils do thin a little with use. This is partly from dilution with blow by gasoline and partly from VI improvers being used up. What is more interesting is that with further use motor oils actually thicken and this is much worse than the minimal thinning that may have occurred earlier.
Synthetic oils are a whole different story. There is no VI improver added so there is nothing to wear out. The actual oil molecules never wear out. You could almost use the same oil forever. The problem is that there are other additives and they do get used up. I suppose if there was a good way to keep oil clean you could just add a can of additives every 6 months and just change the filter, never changing the oil.
When the additives wear out in a synthetic oil it still has the same viscosity. It will not thin as a mineral oil. The fear that some say Porsche has that oils thin when the VII runs out is not applicable to these synthetic oils. These oils will always have the correct thickness when hot and will still be too thick at startup as with all oils of all types, regardless of the API / SAE viscosity rating."
Also, take into account this is only about viscosity and that very very very few oils sold here in the U.S.A. are what in Europe can be considered "Synthetic" here in the U.S.A. can include oils that are Hydrocracked Group 3 an oil basestock that simply is not as good as a PAO/Group 5.
That being said 99% of what your going to find domestically (Mobil 1 *Not including OW-40*, Royal Purple, Castrol *Not including GC*, Shell, Penzoil, Quakerstate) are all going to be group 3 based synthetics. The main problem is that these oils will still break down over time because to achive some of the viscosity ratings they have to have a VI improver.
That being said I run 15w-40 Rotella (not known for its durability) as well as 5w-40 Rotella (after breakin) and I think its the best oil for my application and cost association.
"The penalty is the startup thickness also goes up to 100. This is better than being up at 250 as a straight 30 grade oil though. Oil with a startup thickness of 100 that becomes the appropriate thickness of 10 when fully warmed up is called a 10W-30 grade motor oil. This is NOT as thick as a straight 30 grade oil at startup and it is NOT as thin as a straight 10 grade oil at full operating temperature.
The downside of a mineral based multi-grade oil is that this VII additive wears out over time and you end up with the original straight 10 grade oil. It will go back to being too thin when hot. It will have a thickness of 6 instead of 10. This may be why Porsche (according to some people) does not want a 0W-30 but rather a 10W-30. If the VII wears out the 0W-30 will ultimately be thinner, a straight 0 grade oil. When the VII is used up in the 10W-30 oil it too is thinner. It goes back to a straight 10 grade oil. They are both still too thick at startup, both of them. The straight 0 grade oil, a 5 grade oil and a 10 grade oil are all too thick at startup.
This is just theory however. With normal oil change intervals the VI improver will not wear out and so the problem does not really exist. In fact, oils do thin a little with use. This is partly from dilution with blow by gasoline and partly from VI improvers being used up. What is more interesting is that with further use motor oils actually thicken and this is much worse than the minimal thinning that may have occurred earlier.
Synthetic oils are a whole different story. There is no VI improver added so there is nothing to wear out. The actual oil molecules never wear out. You could almost use the same oil forever. The problem is that there are other additives and they do get used up. I suppose if there was a good way to keep oil clean you could just add a can of additives every 6 months and just change the filter, never changing the oil.
When the additives wear out in a synthetic oil it still has the same viscosity. It will not thin as a mineral oil. The fear that some say Porsche has that oils thin when the VII runs out is not applicable to these synthetic oils. These oils will always have the correct thickness when hot and will still be too thick at startup as with all oils of all types, regardless of the API / SAE viscosity rating."
Also, take into account this is only about viscosity and that very very very few oils sold here in the U.S.A. are what in Europe can be considered "Synthetic" here in the U.S.A. can include oils that are Hydrocracked Group 3 an oil basestock that simply is not as good as a PAO/Group 5.
That being said 99% of what your going to find domestically (Mobil 1 *Not including OW-40*, Royal Purple, Castrol *Not including GC*, Shell, Penzoil, Quakerstate) are all going to be group 3 based synthetics. The main problem is that these oils will still break down over time because to achive some of the viscosity ratings they have to have a VI improver.
That being said I run 15w-40 Rotella (not known for its durability) as well as 5w-40 Rotella (after breakin) and I think its the best oil for my application and cost association.
10-04-2010, 11:14 PM
#14
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in line engines have good torque. but other than that, the 4 cylinder engine is a disaster.
two cylinders going up and two coming down. total disaster.
on the long highway drives i've made all summer i can never help but notice how loud the 4 cylinder engine is...
no... not talking about the exhaust note which is hard enough to remedy....
i'm talking just about the vibrations. the engine just turns the whole dam car into a low droning maraca.
a six cylinder engine is a disaster of a different flavor. so very little torque.
so Porsche makes these engines that spin at 5,000 rpm before they start making power.... okay that's great and all. but just ask all the Cayman and 996 owners who've expericenced engine failures to go along with all the great Porsche six engines.
the only designs that are any good are v8s, and v12s. auto manufacturers built them forever.
the american aftermarket fixed what Detroit never bothered to do - install aircraft quality parts inside the old ironblocks.
then GM decided about 18 years ago to build an aluminum V8 pushrod that wouldn't blow up.
they nailed it about 8 years ago with the Gen IV designs like the LS2 and LS3.
so, why not a 4.0 litre four cylinder engine ? it wouldn't be too much of a gas pig... and it would make decent power.... well, nobody ever built one because it would rip itself and all the accessory components apart, destroy mounts, seals, and vibrate like a harley davidson under your rump.
everything is a compromise - but, Porsche made a horrible design work pretty well.... well, still not enough torque for a performance car by today's standards.... just not enough power in the middle of the rpm range even for a 2,900 pound 944.
the people who rag on the v8/944 idea never drove the lightweight GM engine in such nimble car.
Tony G. speaks about this with very soft words. but he's really talking about a breakthrough car project....
the v8 hybrid guys are truly building one of the world's best cars.
now here's the point;
for all the work required to keep one of these sewing machines running, you can build a hybrid car that falls somewhere between a hotrod and a high performance sports car for just as much aggrivation over the long haul.
and the result is pretty amazing. the only reason i haven't done it is because my engine runs so good.
but i'm running that thin, 0w-40 oil. it sure won't be long right ?
oil,
most of our engines are so damaged, we need the thick stuff.... but, it never had to be that way if the engines hadn't been lubricated using such lousy oil from the start. but 25 years ago, that's basically all we had.
we run thick oil because we're afraid of engine failures during spirited driving... and this in turn, causes even more damage to our engines at start up.
in a perfect world, we'd begin with a new engine and run that nice 0w-40 oil which is REALLY GOOD at start-up.... but we can't because the space between the moving metal parts is now too big and our engines will burn up.
remember Bob running that 20 weight oil in his Ferrari's and Lambos ?
just checking Mobil's website.
Mobil recommends running 0w-40 year round for the 968. there ya go.
these are the same son's of bitches who lubricate the champion F-1 racing team's cars.
i'll always try to be entertaining if i can. i'm the number 1 attention ***** on rennlist.
i have the stats to prove it.
today is my 1 year anniversary.
.
two cylinders going up and two coming down. total disaster.
on the long highway drives i've made all summer i can never help but notice how loud the 4 cylinder engine is...
no... not talking about the exhaust note which is hard enough to remedy....
i'm talking just about the vibrations. the engine just turns the whole dam car into a low droning maraca.
a six cylinder engine is a disaster of a different flavor. so very little torque.
so Porsche makes these engines that spin at 5,000 rpm before they start making power.... okay that's great and all. but just ask all the Cayman and 996 owners who've expericenced engine failures to go along with all the great Porsche six engines.
the only designs that are any good are v8s, and v12s. auto manufacturers built them forever.
the american aftermarket fixed what Detroit never bothered to do - install aircraft quality parts inside the old ironblocks.
then GM decided about 18 years ago to build an aluminum V8 pushrod that wouldn't blow up.
they nailed it about 8 years ago with the Gen IV designs like the LS2 and LS3.
so, why not a 4.0 litre four cylinder engine ? it wouldn't be too much of a gas pig... and it would make decent power.... well, nobody ever built one because it would rip itself and all the accessory components apart, destroy mounts, seals, and vibrate like a harley davidson under your rump.
everything is a compromise - but, Porsche made a horrible design work pretty well.... well, still not enough torque for a performance car by today's standards.... just not enough power in the middle of the rpm range even for a 2,900 pound 944.
the people who rag on the v8/944 idea never drove the lightweight GM engine in such nimble car.
Tony G. speaks about this with very soft words. but he's really talking about a breakthrough car project....
the v8 hybrid guys are truly building one of the world's best cars.
now here's the point;
for all the work required to keep one of these sewing machines running, you can build a hybrid car that falls somewhere between a hotrod and a high performance sports car for just as much aggrivation over the long haul.
and the result is pretty amazing. the only reason i haven't done it is because my engine runs so good.
but i'm running that thin, 0w-40 oil. it sure won't be long right ?
oil,
most of our engines are so damaged, we need the thick stuff.... but, it never had to be that way if the engines hadn't been lubricated using such lousy oil from the start. but 25 years ago, that's basically all we had.
we run thick oil because we're afraid of engine failures during spirited driving... and this in turn, causes even more damage to our engines at start up.
in a perfect world, we'd begin with a new engine and run that nice 0w-40 oil which is REALLY GOOD at start-up.... but we can't because the space between the moving metal parts is now too big and our engines will burn up.
remember Bob running that 20 weight oil in his Ferrari's and Lambos ?
just checking Mobil's website.
Mobil recommends running 0w-40 year round for the 968. there ya go.
these are the same son's of bitches who lubricate the champion F-1 racing team's cars.
i'll always try to be entertaining if i can. i'm the number 1 attention ***** on rennlist.
i have the stats to prove it.
today is my 1 year anniversary.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 10-05-2010 at 12:10 AM.
