odurandina

.
POLL;


i've narrowed my engine selection down to 2 final choices that mimic GM production engines w/ baby smooth idle....

please help me decide by voting for your choice below....



Option #1. LS3 376 c.i. crate - (Crate Engine Depot); $6,204

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS3-...70-P10590.aspx

TPC ceramic coat long-tubes (for 944/968) $1,100

total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; about $7,300

result; about 445~450 hp at the crank and w/ very friendly street manners.



option # 2 is the fifth setup mentioned in post #59 (page 4);


Option #5. LS7 block w/ ls3 crank @ 388 c.i. w/ LS3 heads/intake, LS7 cam...

virgin LS7 short block w/ 4.125" siamese-bore cylinders, LS3 crank w/ 3.62" stroke, forged rods - Scoggin Dickey; $5,800

http://sdparts.com

from parts bin, add fully assembled GM LS3 rect port heads, H20 pump, and all other parts to finish crate; (source LS3 intake, fuel rail, and manual throttle body from ebay)... total; about $2,200....
add GM LS7 cam, beehive valvespring set, Manly chrome-moly pushrods, $800
TPC ceramic coat long-tubes $1,100.00

total before adding serpentine, bellhousing, w harness/comp, clutch, starter; $9,900


result; about 480~485 hp at the crank w/ no lope and very friendly street manners.





UPDATE; xschop is going to help me try to put together a very extensive parts list

(including Eric Hill/TPC's latest creations within a few weeks).



we all know this has been tried before —


there are three fantastic threads on V8 swaps on Rennlist...


and if you're interested, they're invaluable resources for anyone wishing to begin a swap and build a proper v8 supercar....


first, there's Docwyte's project thread;

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...has-begun.html


and Alan's thread, whose swap was performed by his friend Dan (XSBoost) in Ohio;

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...in-camaro.html


and Bruce's (95ONE) V8 build thread, (he's blueprinting a high output LS1 for install in his 944T)...

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...ld-thread.html


for anyone who's new around Rennlist, GM LSx v8 swaps are a significant performance upgrade for our cars...


Bruce had a post recently about which sums it up...



there seems to be a few basic questions that people have once they've decided to step up to v8 power—


1. who makes good, reliable parts for this swap at a reasonable price... (how bout we start a list in this thread) ?

2. who are the superior shops/individuals that specialize in doing swaps?

3. what are the best accessory options to run?

4. what are the best transmission combo's to run to make use of increased power/torque values ?


the above thread links will address these issues.

but if anyone needs wishes to post any swap parts, lsd transmissions, etc, available for sale. feel free to post here.


if the thread survives, please keep it friendly —

(obviously, there's a lot that goes in and often more than 1 right way or person to do it).


thank you all in advance for posting what you know that could make setting up and completing an LS swap easier...



here's a 968 with an LS2...



/

odurandina

a nice video: https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...ild-video.html








couple of comparo's w/ classic threads attached: 968 supercharger, 944 turbo, one more 944V8, all with amazing results....




very good: 968 w/ supercharger...


https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...velopment.html








Great ++ Corleone's amazing 944 Turbo;


https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...s-running.html







great ++ "project V8 vt951's bitchin....."



https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...in-camaro.html






Tony G's videos show what one of these cars can do; (3 videos from the California Speedway).


http://tonygarcia.org/944V8/ sorry, can't leave it out.... it's good stuff....








plain to see his power brake solution was paying in the "spades +++" range...




for any of the new guys to the Rennlist 944 forum....

this is a four cylinder forum to be sure. but probably one where you could easily insert an asterisk due to so many guys having changed over the the GM V8 option... while requiring exensive time in the shop, it's become fairly routine..... with the ample supply of parts now available, the big v8 almost becomes a "native" engine option to the the 924S/944/968 line...



how i arrived here....

in 1988 i purchased a 1986 Buick Grand National with a blown engine. one of my uncle's is very good friends with the grandfather of one of the current drivers in the Nationwide Series... any one of the senior gentleman's son's (uncle of said Nationwide series driver), also happens to be my next door neighbor in Massachusetts.


well, to make a long story short, back in 1988 Bob Sr. convinced me to have him build me a Small Block Chevy, (what we over on this side of the pond refer to as an SBC) for the Buick Turbo. why? because the car would end up with a lot more low-end torque, no turbo lag and go faster!.... so we did it. and sure enough, i had myself a car with even more power and performance. (the engine even came with a Pete Jackson gear drive).

well a year later, i had an opportunity come up with no previous planning whatsoever and got myself a 2 year old 1988 944 S at auction with only 17 k miles (the previous owner couldn't make the payments) !!... anyway after i brought the car home at some point, Uncle had a cookout and of course, Bob Sr. was there. he happened to see me waxing my Guard's Red 944 and stopped over to have a look. next, he took it and drove it around.... came back and said, "not bad. now we need Ira Tucker to blueprint the engine, and put on a centrifugal supercharger.. and after you blow that two-bit lawnmower up, we'll put a real engine in the car." of course, he was alluding to another 400 HP small block chevy...

that was in 1990. Guess what? Bob Sr. was right. a few years later, the afternoon of Halloween, 1994, i did indeed blow up that engine. (major f_ckup on my part caused me to cook the rod bearings)....

about a year before this all happened i happened to be thumbing through an edition of Stock Car Racing magazine and saw a strange ad in the back from a company announcing they had a kit for making it possible to install an SBC V8 in a Porsche 944 !! i completely **** myself.

i had already seen what a properly built SBC engine was all about; massive torque, power, dependability, no 'effing timing belts (mine didn't even have a timing chain, lol.)... it was pretty clear after having seen Bob Sr.'s 2,500 pound Chevy Vega w/ 377 small block chevy, how much of a supercar a 944 with a V8 could actually be. the first thing i did was call Renegade (now 1994) and ask them about what the hell would we do about the crappy, short ratios of the 944. the guy on the phone mentioned one of the transmissions as having very good ratios, if you ran a slightly larger tire. i was sold on the idea, but decided instead, just to sell the 944. something i came to regret.


as for thes v8 builds... they don't take anything away from the 944 or 968.... you have a lot of guys like of Carl Faucett Mike Lindsey and Chris White to thank—who've injected a lot of life into the Porsche 4 cylinder engines and the transmissions.... either the 2.5 944 or 3.0 968 builds produce great results, or the engines can be set up for turbos to help the cars ascend to the next level.... the only problem has been the cost.... as a result, one more innovation has been changing to the V8 option. engines can be sourced (especially truck engines and LS1s) for really cheap $$$... the number of purists seems to have decreased considerably... nowadays doing swaps, these builds produce massive performance gains over stock, and the projects are watched with a lot of interest by much of the 944 community. in the end, whether staying 100% stock, changing to turbos, superchargers, or changing to V8, the result is fitting in the end—as they're all keeping more of these old cars on the road.



here's DVC's amazing ride...




/

docwyte

Texas Performance Concepts has quite a bit of the needed parts to do the swap for sale. They also build the cars, that's where mine is right now.

Most people say the stock 951 tranny with the taller 5th gear is a nice choice. My car already has the S2 tranny and since it's mostly a track car I'm going to stick with it. The added acceleration will be nice and I doubt I'll need more than the gear limited 158mph...

Lemming

Both of those cars were built about 5 miles from my house. Tom does a great job!

968ls1

Tim thanks for the kind words, I think DVC's car was built by Mike Gokey at German Performance or by Travis the owner regardless it is a very nice job. It looks like from your other thread the new Frankencar is coming together nicely!!

The gray car in this post was involved in a accident and I am in the process of building a new street car; the gray car is being converted to a track only car. The new car is an accumulation of everything I have learned about building these conversions over the last 13 years. I have redesigned the engine mounts as well as several other new ideas and improvements I will post some pictures and info on it once I get finished with the fabrication work.

vt951

I just have a few comments...

#1. Tom (968ls1) is the man! I have been fortunate to be able to work with him on my swap. Awesome amount of knowledge and willingness to answer so many of my basic questions.

#2. Greg Sloan's (gt1scca) manual is a great resource. You could likely get most of the way there just by following the advice and info in it (a lot of which was captured from some of the guys mentioned in this thread).

#3. Be realistic about the cost and time involved. If this is your first time doing it, a decent quality swap will probably cost $10k and take at least 6 months of your spare time. And I believe those numbers are conservative. If you're married, this project may strain things a bit...

#4. Don't expect the end result to be as refined as the original 944 drivetrain. My car has lots of little vibrations and is loud as hell. As a track car, I'm sure it will be absolutely awesome. But, it is not really what most people would want to drive daily. It may be that some of Tom's new ideas (motor mounts) will help the NVH issues, and I certainly could have put a quieter exhaust on it, but as my car sits right now, it is pretty f-ing raw. I still love it, though.

Arominus

I want to do this to my 924s, but even with a 330hp ls1 i don't think i can get enough tire under it without turning it into a CGT clone..

I can dream though!

Lemming

With GT flares you can easily get 275's on the rear (17x9 wheels).

Lemming

I must live on another planet, I guess I have thought all along that the DVC car was Carl's

968ls1

Carl and DVC's cars do look a lot alike. When are you painting the Frank en Car? Can't wait to see that ride in racing colors.

alex

I have not yet installed it, but Eric @ TX Performance has a replacement crossmember that solves the fitment/hood clearance issue. It also comes with TREs to solve bumpsteer since it drops the rack an inch or two. He was great to work with, and came up with a custom solution for me since I am running a manual rack with late offset tie rods. The thing is built like a tank! It weighs about the same as the stock cast xmember, but in tubular steel, is much stronger. It is also a good value. By the time you factor in the cost of the uprights, motor mounts, and either having a custom pan fabbed, or buying a custom pan, it close to being a wash. Add in the much better tie rods, and it is a no brainer.

Here is my LT1 and xmember. He also has an LSX model, as well some other necessary swap parts.



Also, xschop has come up with some really great solutions that are quite reasonable. He is willing to think outside the box, I am bummed I had to sell my boxS and LS430 big brake kit when I changed directions and went with a turbo body. They were damn cool. These guys are both an asset to the hybrid community, and I would not hesitate to refer my closest friends to them. Greg's manual is also a great resource. 944-LT1 has been doing this for a long time, he was the guy that convinced me I could do this without selling a child... though if it came down to it, I would have a tough choice on my hands! Dawgz83948 is also a great resource, very helpful, especially when dealing with CA BS.

A lot of the guys on the hybrid board (944hybrids.com) are also members here, but there is a ton of great info there. Do some reading and you will understand why RH is to be avoided... and it goes beyond shoddy CS and QC.

Thought I'd throw in my .02 since I am in the process of doing this right now. Oh yeah, if anyone needs some 951 parts...




close to dropping 951 power plant:

odurandina

will it hold a candle to the white logo on Guard's Red 924 ?

be very cool if it reminds the observer of the other car.

83 944

this thread should be interesting since i want to do the ls1 swap to a 944 as well. just cant afford the crossmember from texas performance yet. but i have the motor so im getting there.

but from im gathering i need a 951 trans. lsx motor, crossmember(built in motor mounts) a bell housing adapter for the torque tube, and the pilot bearing adapter with bearing. thats all i can think of at the moment. but im not to sure what else ill need. also more pictures these cars are amazing and very entertaining!

docwyte

I went with the QT bellhousing. It has an integral scatter shield and is a direct bolt on. No need for specially machined parts. I tend to try to stay away from those in case I break something and can't buy another specially made part in the future.

Eric at TPC is having a custom oil pan made for my car so you don't have to change the crossmember at all. I'm sure he'll offer it to the community once he gets it done.

Rogue_Ant

At altitude, that 330hp is more like 270... You won't need as much tire as you think.