View Poll Results: street combo; de-stroked LS7 388 c.i. vs LS3 376 c.i.; which would you run ?
LS3 376 c.i. (Crate Engine Depot); $7,300 (see top of page 4)...
27
60.00%
LS7 block w/ ls3 crank @ 388 c.i., LS3 heads/intake LS7 cam; $9,900.
18
40.00%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll
LS1 swap/parts/LSD transmissions...
03-19-2012, 11:33 PM
#61
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, because you asked me to I read through this whole thread. I had never caught this one on here before, I don't know why. It is amazing! I'd never do anything like this to my car as I don't have the time. It is absolutely awesome however, to see the "adjustments" that you and some of the other guys here are making.
If I went by your details in post #59, I would have said #2 or #3 based on cost vs. power output.
For the narrowed down list in post # 61 I would say #1. I don't see the 30-40 extra HP being worth $2,600 more, but again, I drive a stock/show 944.
I would love to see your car when it is done! Good luck!
If I went by your details in post #59, I would have said #2 or #3 based on cost vs. power output.
For the narrowed down list in post # 61 I would say #1. I don't see the 30-40 extra HP being worth $2,600 more, but again, I drive a stock/show 944.
I would love to see your car when it is done! Good luck!
03-19-2012, 11:40 PM
#62
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
thanks a lot.
if i get hired at this new job i'm seeking, the problem won't be the money to go to the full 388 cubes.
it will be actually finding the time to enjoy the car... as i may not have any.
if i get hired at this new job i'm seeking, the problem won't be the money to go to the full 388 cubes.
it will be actually finding the time to enjoy the car... as i may not have any.
03-20-2012, 12:02 AM
#63
Instructor
I've always wanted to see if I could put an LSA into my '86 944 with help from Renegade in Las Vegas. Once I saw how light the LS3's were, it was worth considering.
So this 968 came along in Dec. and now I'm involved with this new project. Amazing how a running Porsche grabs your attention vs. a non-running one....
Cheers !
03-20-2012, 02:33 AM
#64
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
thanks !
well, as the days near, i must say i'm not looking forward to the down time while the swap is in motion.
I was lucky enough to drive one of Eric's (TPC) conversions. The 944 was a stock car with 215 tires... The power was overwhelming for those tires but it had a factory feel to it. Meaning it felt like it was meant to be and will be amazing with better tires, the car felt solid, no creaks or groans from adding so much power....
This is a natural conversion,
to purists I can understand their reluctance but you can have a supercar for less than $20k...
i'd like to see the purists try and talk themselves out of this....
ain't she something ? girl's not bad either.... here's part 1;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=zN1N5FEsu58
well, as the days near, i must say i'm not looking forward to the down time while the swap is in motion.
I was lucky enough to drive one of Eric's (TPC) conversions. The 944 was a stock car with 215 tires... The power was overwhelming for those tires but it had a factory feel to it. Meaning it felt like it was meant to be and will be amazing with better tires, the car felt solid, no creaks or groans from adding so much power....
This is a natural conversion,
to purists I can understand their reluctance but you can have a supercar for less than $20k...
i'd like to see the purists try and talk themselves out of this....
ain't she something ? girl's not bad either.... here's part 1;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=zN1N5FEsu58
03-20-2012, 10:09 AM
#65
Instructor
I didnt see a comment on it but engine weight is really important...I would go with the lighter engine to keep it closer to stock distribution and move the battery to the trunk...not sure where the 968s battery is?
The most economical way to do this is to buy a used but good condition, LS1, LS2. A good one can be had for less than $5k but the install is approximately $5k so expect $10k-$12k total. The car I drove had almost 400rwhp and weighed well less than 3,000lbs...awesome!
The most economical way to do this is to buy a used but good condition, LS1, LS2. A good one can be had for less than $5k but the install is approximately $5k so expect $10k-$12k total. The car I drove had almost 400rwhp and weighed well less than 3,000lbs...awesome!
Last edited by Tabbasco; 03-20-2012 at 10:32 AM.
03-20-2012, 10:51 AM
#66
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
weight.... even running the Z06 block in wet sump config will add less than 40 pounds to the front of the car.... most of that weight will come back off when i install a 1 off epoxy/carbon hood from GT Racing... the hood will be built heavier than their track version, and should have close to oem fitment if Joel can pull it off...
if i run the 388 with the LS7 cam, it'll be a very fun car with a good deal more service life than the big Z06.
Application/Engine HP @ RPM TQ @ RPM bore/stroke over-square ?
968 swap 6.35L LS7 480 hp @ 5,600 w/ lower torque yes
Lamborghini Gallado 5.2L V-10 562 @ 8,000 398 @ 6,500 No
Ferrari 599 6.0L V-12 612 @ 7,600 448 @ 5,600 Yes
Aston Martin V-12 Vantage 6.0L 510 @ 6,500 420 @ 5,7050 Yes
Read more: http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_12...#ixzz1pfGMYmZz
if i run the 388 with the LS7 cam, it'll be a very fun car with a good deal more service life than the big Z06.
Application/Engine HP @ RPM TQ @ RPM bore/stroke over-square ?
968 swap 6.35L LS7 480 hp @ 5,600 w/ lower torque yes
Lamborghini Gallado 5.2L V-10 562 @ 8,000 398 @ 6,500 No
Ferrari 599 6.0L V-12 612 @ 7,600 448 @ 5,600 Yes
Aston Martin V-12 Vantage 6.0L 510 @ 6,500 420 @ 5,7050 Yes
Read more: http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_12...#ixzz1pfGMYmZz
03-20-2012, 04:40 PM
#67
a nice video: https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...ild-video.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1l3w...layer_embedded
couple of comparo's w/ classic threads attached: 968 supercharger, 944 turbo, one more 944V8, all with amazing results....
very good: 968 w/ supercharger...
https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...velopment.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr1F_...layer_embedded
Great ++ Corleone's amazing 944 Turbo;
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...s-running.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-GjR...layer_embedded
great ++ "project V8 vt951's bitchin....."
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...in-camaro.html
Tony G's videos show what one of these cars can do; (3 videos from the California Speedway).
http://tonygarcia.org/944V8/ sorry, can't leave it out.... it's good stuff....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pADH2G9ung
plain to see his power brake solution was paying in the "spades +++" range...
for any of the new guys to the Rennlist 944 forum....
this is a four cylinder forum to be sure. but probably one where you could easily insert an asterisk due to so many guys having changed over the the GM V8 option... while requiring exensive time in the shop, it's become fairly routine..... with the ample supply of parts now available, the big v8 almost becomes a "native" engine option to the the 924S/944/968 line...
how i arrived here....
in 1988 i purchased a 1986 Buick Grand National with a blown engine. one of my uncle's is very good friends with the grandfather of one of the current drivers in the Nationwide Series... any one of the senior gentleman's son's (uncle of said Nationwide series driver), also happens to be my next door neighbor in Massachusetts.
well, to make a long story short, back in 1988 Bob Sr. convinced me to have him build me a Small Block Chevy, (what we over on this side of the pond refer to as an SBC) for the Buick Turbo. why? because the car would end up with a lot more low-end torque, no turbo lag and go faster!.... so we did it. and sure enough, i had myself a car with even more power and performance. (the engine even came with a Pete Jackson gear drive).
well a year later, i had an opportunity come up with no previous planning whatsoever and got myself a 2 year old 1988 944 S at auction with only 17 k miles (the previous owner couldn't make the payments) !!... anyway after i brought the car home at some point, Uncle had a cookout and of course, Bob Sr. was there. he happened to see me waxing my Guard's Red 944 and stopped over to have a look. next, he took it and drove it around.... came back and said, "not bad. now we need Ira Tucker to blueprint the engine, and put on a centrifugal supercharger.. and after you blow that two-bit lawnmower up, we'll put a real engine in the car." of course, he was alluding to another 400 HP small block chevy...
that was in 1990. Guess what? Bob Sr. was right. a few years later, the afternoon of Halloween, 1994, i did indeed blow up that engine. (major f_ckup on my part caused me to cook the rod bearings)....
about a year before this all happened i happened to be thumbing through an edition of Stock Car Racing magazine and saw a strange ad in the back from a company announcing they had a kit for making it possible to install an SBC V8 in a Porsche 944 !! i completely **** myself.
i had already seen what a properly built SBC engine was all about; massive torque, power, dependability, no 'effing timing belts (mine didn't even have a timing chain, lol.)... it was pretty clear after having seen Bob Sr.'s 2,500 pound Chevy Vega w/ 377 small block chevy, how much of a supercar a 944 with a V8 could actually be. the first thing i did was call Renegade (now 1994) and ask them about what the hell would we do about the crappy, short ratios of the 944. the guy on the phone mentioned one of the transmissions as having very good ratios, if you ran a slightly larger tire. i was sold on the idea, but decided instead, just to sell the 944. something i came to regret.
as for thes v8 builds... they don't take anything away from the 944 or 968.... you have a lot of guys like of Carl Faucett Mike Lindsey and Chris White to thank—who've injected a lot of life into the Porsche 4 cylinder engines and the transmissions.... either the 2.5 944 or 3.0 968 builds produce great results, or the engines can be set up for turbos to help the cars ascend to the next level.... the only problem has been the cost.... as a result, one more innovation has been changing to the V8 option. engines can be sourced (especially truck engines and LS1s) for really cheap $$$... the number of purists seems to have decreased considerably... nowadays doing swaps, these builds produce massive performance gains over stock, and the projects are watched with a lot of interest by much of the 944 community. in the end, whether staying 100% stock, changing to turbos, superchargers, or changing to V8, the result is fitting in the end—as they're all keeping more of these old cars on the road.
here's DVC's amazing ride...
/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1l3w...layer_embedded
couple of comparo's w/ classic threads attached: 968 supercharger, 944 turbo, one more 944V8, all with amazing results....
very good: 968 w/ supercharger...
https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...velopment.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr1F_...layer_embedded
Great ++ Corleone's amazing 944 Turbo;
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...s-running.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-GjR...layer_embedded
great ++ "project V8 vt951's bitchin....."
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...in-camaro.html
Tony G's videos show what one of these cars can do; (3 videos from the California Speedway).
http://tonygarcia.org/944V8/ sorry, can't leave it out.... it's good stuff....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pADH2G9ung
plain to see his power brake solution was paying in the "spades +++" range...
for any of the new guys to the Rennlist 944 forum....
this is a four cylinder forum to be sure. but probably one where you could easily insert an asterisk due to so many guys having changed over the the GM V8 option... while requiring exensive time in the shop, it's become fairly routine..... with the ample supply of parts now available, the big v8 almost becomes a "native" engine option to the the 924S/944/968 line...
how i arrived here....
in 1988 i purchased a 1986 Buick Grand National with a blown engine. one of my uncle's is very good friends with the grandfather of one of the current drivers in the Nationwide Series... any one of the senior gentleman's son's (uncle of said Nationwide series driver), also happens to be my next door neighbor in Massachusetts.
well, to make a long story short, back in 1988 Bob Sr. convinced me to have him build me a Small Block Chevy, (what we over on this side of the pond refer to as an SBC) for the Buick Turbo. why? because the car would end up with a lot more low-end torque, no turbo lag and go faster!.... so we did it. and sure enough, i had myself a car with even more power and performance. (the engine even came with a Pete Jackson gear drive).
well a year later, i had an opportunity come up with no previous planning whatsoever and got myself a 2 year old 1988 944 S at auction with only 17 k miles (the previous owner couldn't make the payments) !!... anyway after i brought the car home at some point, Uncle had a cookout and of course, Bob Sr. was there. he happened to see me waxing my Guard's Red 944 and stopped over to have a look. next, he took it and drove it around.... came back and said, "not bad. now we need Ira Tucker to blueprint the engine, and put on a centrifugal supercharger.. and after you blow that two-bit lawnmower up, we'll put a real engine in the car." of course, he was alluding to another 400 HP small block chevy...
that was in 1990. Guess what? Bob Sr. was right. a few years later, the afternoon of Halloween, 1994, i did indeed blow up that engine. (major f_ckup on my part caused me to cook the rod bearings)....
about a year before this all happened i happened to be thumbing through an edition of Stock Car Racing magazine and saw a strange ad in the back from a company announcing they had a kit for making it possible to install an SBC V8 in a Porsche 944 !! i completely **** myself.
i had already seen what a properly built SBC engine was all about; massive torque, power, dependability, no 'effing timing belts (mine didn't even have a timing chain, lol.)... it was pretty clear after having seen Bob Sr.'s 2,500 pound Chevy Vega w/ 377 small block chevy, how much of a supercar a 944 with a V8 could actually be. the first thing i did was call Renegade (now 1994) and ask them about what the hell would we do about the crappy, short ratios of the 944. the guy on the phone mentioned one of the transmissions as having very good ratios, if you ran a slightly larger tire. i was sold on the idea, but decided instead, just to sell the 944. something i came to regret.
as for thes v8 builds... they don't take anything away from the 944 or 968.... you have a lot of guys like of Carl Faucett Mike Lindsey and Chris White to thank—who've injected a lot of life into the Porsche 4 cylinder engines and the transmissions.... either the 2.5 944 or 3.0 968 builds produce great results, or the engines can be set up for turbos to help the cars ascend to the next level.... the only problem has been the cost.... as a result, one more innovation has been changing to the V8 option. engines can be sourced (especially truck engines and LS1s) for really cheap $$$... the number of purists seems to have decreased considerably... nowadays doing swaps, these builds produce massive performance gains over stock, and the projects are watched with a lot of interest by much of the 944 community. in the end, whether staying 100% stock, changing to turbos, superchargers, or changing to V8, the result is fitting in the end—as they're all keeping more of these old cars on the road.
here's DVC's amazing ride...
/
04-16-2012, 11:15 PM
#68
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
well, we have head gasket failures to look forward to.
yeah, we think we have it so bad... but i guess it's all relative.....
but, in the high stakes game of 911s out of warranty (ims failure), there's no "LS1" solution.
yeah, we think we have it so bad... but i guess it's all relative.....
but, in the high stakes game of 911s out of warranty (ims failure), there's no "LS1" solution.
07-02-2013, 07:23 PM
#69
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
these are the V8 kits from Rob M, (based in Oklahoma City)....
quality stuff for building your supercar after... well you know.......
quality stuff for building your supercar after... well you know.......
$1800 shipped to any US-48..... Just PM
Everything needed for a basic swap minus the oil-pan (I suggest getting TPC's) as This kit uses TPC's AC-compatible POWDER-COATED uprights and allows maximum steering rack clearance. The X-member is precision line-bored at the control arms for exact 3/4" drop, relieved at the rack mounts (for max oil-pan clearance) and slotted at the Upright mounts for aft movement. It was then acid washed, primered, and painted . Again, I guarantee your hood will close (with no cutting) even with the taller power steering rack. 3/4" billet X-member spacers and 3/4" longer X-member zinc-plated bolts and washers. 3/4" Sway bar spacers. 3/4" bump-steer tie-rod drop blocks (You will need to get a set of MANUAL rack outer tie-rods...Rock Auto $25/ea). Bolt-on Modded 13/16" Wilwood MC and custom adjustable pushrod adapter (Includes Wilwood accessories). 30" -4an stainless braided line and Wilwood NPT adapter. Brand New Anodized and Pre-Modded C5 throwout bearing with -4an lines included to fit the C5 Bellhousing adapter with TT mounting hardware all included. Your chioice of an LS or LT/SBC pilot bearing adapter and new pilot bearing. I redesigned the 1/4" thick 2000 series alloy brake MC adapter for factory 944 MC and a longer custom adjustable pushrod adapter. It has a seperate billet plate that removes so the larger firewall plate can be re-used for Hydroboost or Dual MC mount later. Kit comes with New construction 4140 custom steering shaft with brand new Borgeson U-joints made for the 3/4" X-member drop. It is adjustable due to the Double D ends. Comes lengthened exactly 1/2" but can be extended or shortened by end-user.....Also included is my new universal billet-polyurethane transmission mount (85.5-up only) that set the drivetrain at factory position or 1/2" back for the V8 swap with swappable set-screws..... And to sweeten the pot, I'm adding in one of my Short Shifters, all Chromoly design with Teflon Heim....
Everything needed for a basic swap minus the oil-pan (I suggest getting TPC's) as This kit uses TPC's AC-compatible POWDER-COATED uprights and allows maximum steering rack clearance. The X-member is precision line-bored at the control arms for exact 3/4" drop, relieved at the rack mounts (for max oil-pan clearance) and slotted at the Upright mounts for aft movement. It was then acid washed, primered, and painted . Again, I guarantee your hood will close (with no cutting) even with the taller power steering rack. 3/4" billet X-member spacers and 3/4" longer X-member zinc-plated bolts and washers. 3/4" Sway bar spacers. 3/4" bump-steer tie-rod drop blocks (You will need to get a set of MANUAL rack outer tie-rods...Rock Auto $25/ea). Bolt-on Modded 13/16" Wilwood MC and custom adjustable pushrod adapter (Includes Wilwood accessories). 30" -4an stainless braided line and Wilwood NPT adapter. Brand New Anodized and Pre-Modded C5 throwout bearing with -4an lines included to fit the C5 Bellhousing adapter with TT mounting hardware all included. Your chioice of an LS or LT/SBC pilot bearing adapter and new pilot bearing. I redesigned the 1/4" thick 2000 series alloy brake MC adapter for factory 944 MC and a longer custom adjustable pushrod adapter. It has a seperate billet plate that removes so the larger firewall plate can be re-used for Hydroboost or Dual MC mount later. Kit comes with New construction 4140 custom steering shaft with brand new Borgeson U-joints made for the 3/4" X-member drop. It is adjustable due to the Double D ends. Comes lengthened exactly 1/2" but can be extended or shortened by end-user.....Also included is my new universal billet-polyurethane transmission mount (85.5-up only) that set the drivetrain at factory position or 1/2" back for the V8 swap with swappable set-screws..... And to sweeten the pot, I'm adding in one of my Short Shifters, all Chromoly design with Teflon Heim....
11-08-2013, 01:44 PM
#70
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
engine swap....
had [Scoggin Dickey, Lubbock, TX] build basically the same engine as shown in the link below 
; w/ forged crank, rods, pistons etc,
but using an LS9 cam and factory ported LS3 heads [which make about 12~15hp over stock]....
the engine would still be sturdy enough for 8000 rpm and stupid power w/ racy cam [on the won't do list].
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_12...oke_of_genius/
.
; w/ forged crank, rods, pistons etc, but using an LS9 cam and factory ported LS3 heads [which make about 12~15hp over stock]....
the engine would still be sturdy enough for 8000 rpm and stupid power w/ racy cam [on the won't do list].
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_12...oke_of_genius/
.
11-29-2013, 06:35 PM
#71
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
I decided to re-post a couple of recent transmission questions here for a one-size fits all.
the tall A4 Diesel .729 5th and .600 6th options are perfect for that engine. remember that you can tweak slightly by selecting 25" or 25.6~7" tires.
yes, i ended up getting the gears i needed with the LSD install.
stock 968 ratios;
1st; 3.182 :1
2nd; 2.000 :1
3rd; 1.435 :1
4th; 1.111 :1
5th; 0.912 :1
6th. 0.778 :1
final ratio 3.778 w/ open diff.
and w/ the new gears for the V8;
1st; 3.182 :1
2nd; 2.000 :1
3rd; 1.230 :1
4th; 0.930: 1
5th; 0.729 :1
6th. 0.600 :1
final ratio 3.778 w/ limited slip diff.
numbers; flat out, spirited and economy driving running Dunlop 275-35-18/25.6" tires.
notice the short ratio 1st and 2nd gears, but smooth transitions from 2nd to 6th running the new stuff.
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 17.3
.930 .................. 125.4 ............................ 94.1 ............................ 62.7 ............................ 15.3
1.230 ................. 94.8 ............................. 71.1 ............................ 47.4 ............................ 18.3
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
and the oem transmission w/ short gear shift points;
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
0.778 .................. 150.0 ........................... 112.5 ........................... 75.0 ............................ 11.1
0.912 .................. 127.9 ............................ 95.9 ............................ 63.9 ............................ 7.8
1.111 .................. 112.2 ............................ 84.1 ............................ 56.1 ............................ 15.5
1.435 ................... 81.3 ............................. 61.0 ............................ 40.6 ............................ 14.0
2.000 ................... 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................... 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
i had orginally sourced my 5th and 6th gears for my LS swap transmission box and i was readying to have them and the LSD installed.... but just before going ahead, i thought i'd give Scott Dewitt (Advanced Automotion) a call and make 100% sure that nothing can be done about the sizable gap i would have between 4th and 5th... and of course, Scott's solved it... recently finding .880 and .930 Audi gears to run in the 4th gear slot.... either gear eliminates the problem of the not-friendly short 1.111 4th gear.
so, which gear to select ?
the .880 4th gear would make 133 mph at 6,000 rpm (25.6 inch tire).... but on the secondary roads (and lower highway speeds) the rpms would be running a bit lower than ideal if attempting to launch; thus making the .920 gear the better option; the .920 will make about 122 mph at 6,000 rpm with the car near peak torque once switching to 5th..... the .729 5th will make 160 mph at 6,000 and the .600 6th gear will make 195 mph/6,000 rpm....
what about a taller 3rd gear?
Scott has a 1.23 (and also a 1.32) 3rd gear to eliminate the stock 1.45.... so you're left with just having to deal with shorter 1st and 2nd gears. but, it's easy to see from the table that the rest of the way, the transmission is able to take full advantage of the torque and hp of the LS V8.
yes, done. all 4 gears.
the gearsets fom the euro 2wd A4 diesels w/ 01e FPN FRL w/ 31/8 (3.875) R&P
are interchangable with the 968 box as long as the gear #s match.
4th with 4th, 5th with 5th, etc....
3.50 1.89 1.23 1.07 0.73 0.60
3.75 2.05 1.23 0.93 0.73 0.60
3.50 1.89 1.32 0.87 0.67 0.56
how many other parts from the euro diesel boxes are a straight swap ? i don't exactly know. but all the gears (from the euro 2wd diesel transmission) work fine. the gears from all the other 4wd boxes do not.... you all might also be interested to know that after Keven had the transmission completely taken apart, and despite having low miles, he discovered a bunch of very worn/chipped parts near the end of their life span.... so, he advised on doing a full rebuild, and all the worn stuff was replaced.
the cost for the project including purchase of the box, gears, lsd and full rebuild was $7,850.
I would probably need to be well over 650hp with a cam swap, nitrous, rollcage/harness etc to ever attempt that.
won't be anytime soon.
parts/source;
Advanced Automotion - Corpus Christi, TX, 817 939-6761
contact: Scott Dewitt, http://www.advancedautomotion.com/
Originally Posted by RonBGA
I was reading some older posts you had regarding gearing for your car. I have a '95 968 with an LT1 Renegade conversion. When I get the transaxle overhauled I want to make the current 6th into 5th but my choices seem to be either go with the stock 6th gear or look into the Audi diesel 5th or 6th. The Audi 6th at .600 seems too tall as I'd be down to about 2000 rpm and even with the LT1 there not a great deal of hp or torque at that rpm. The Audi 5th isn't much different from the stock 6th (about 185 rpm lower with Audi 5th) to seem to warrant the risk of not using the stock 6th.
the tall A4 Diesel .729 5th and .600 6th options are perfect for that engine. remember that you can tweak slightly by selecting 25" or 25.6~7" tires.
Originally Posted by RonBGA
Did you end up doing your transaxle gears and if so what way did you go with the gears?
Thanks,
Ron
Thanks,
Ron
yes, i ended up getting the gears i needed with the LSD install.
stock 968 ratios;
1st; 3.182 :1
2nd; 2.000 :1
3rd; 1.435 :1
4th; 1.111 :1
5th; 0.912 :1
6th. 0.778 :1
final ratio 3.778 w/ open diff.
and w/ the new gears for the V8;
1st; 3.182 :1
2nd; 2.000 :1
3rd; 1.230 :1
4th; 0.930: 1
5th; 0.729 :1
6th. 0.600 :1
final ratio 3.778 w/ limited slip diff.
numbers; flat out, spirited and economy driving running Dunlop 275-35-18/25.6" tires.
notice the short ratio 1st and 2nd gears, but smooth transitions from 2nd to 6th running the new stuff.
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 17.3
.930 .................. 125.4 ............................ 94.1 ............................ 62.7 ............................ 15.3
1.230 ................. 94.8 ............................. 71.1 ............................ 47.4 ............................ 18.3
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
and the oem transmission w/ short gear shift points;
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
0.778 .................. 150.0 ........................... 112.5 ........................... 75.0 ............................ 11.1
0.912 .................. 127.9 ............................ 95.9 ............................ 63.9 ............................ 7.8
1.111 .................. 112.2 ............................ 84.1 ............................ 56.1 ............................ 15.5
1.435 ................... 81.3 ............................. 61.0 ............................ 40.6 ............................ 14.0
2.000 ................... 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................... 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
i had orginally sourced my 5th and 6th gears for my LS swap transmission box and i was readying to have them and the LSD installed.... but just before going ahead, i thought i'd give Scott Dewitt (Advanced Automotion) a call and make 100% sure that nothing can be done about the sizable gap i would have between 4th and 5th... and of course, Scott's solved it... recently finding .880 and .930 Audi gears to run in the 4th gear slot.... either gear eliminates the problem of the not-friendly short 1.111 4th gear.
so, which gear to select ?
the .880 4th gear would make 133 mph at 6,000 rpm (25.6 inch tire).... but on the secondary roads (and lower highway speeds) the rpms would be running a bit lower than ideal if attempting to launch; thus making the .920 gear the better option; the .920 will make about 122 mph at 6,000 rpm with the car near peak torque once switching to 5th..... the .729 5th will make 160 mph at 6,000 and the .600 6th gear will make 195 mph/6,000 rpm....
what about a taller 3rd gear?
Scott has a 1.23 (and also a 1.32) 3rd gear to eliminate the stock 1.45.... so you're left with just having to deal with shorter 1st and 2nd gears. but, it's easy to see from the table that the rest of the way, the transmission is able to take full advantage of the torque and hp of the LS V8.
yes, done. all 4 gears.
the gearsets fom the euro 2wd A4 diesels w/ 01e FPN FRL w/ 31/8 (3.875) R&P
are interchangable with the 968 box as long as the gear #s match.
4th with 4th, 5th with 5th, etc....
3.50 1.89 1.23 1.07 0.73 0.60
3.75 2.05 1.23 0.93 0.73 0.60
3.50 1.89 1.32 0.87 0.67 0.56
how many other parts from the euro diesel boxes are a straight swap ? i don't exactly know. but all the gears (from the euro 2wd diesel transmission) work fine. the gears from all the other 4wd boxes do not.... you all might also be interested to know that after Keven had the transmission completely taken apart, and despite having low miles, he discovered a bunch of very worn/chipped parts near the end of their life span.... so, he advised on doing a full rebuild, and all the worn stuff was replaced.
the cost for the project including purchase of the box, gears, lsd and full rebuild was $7,850.
I would probably need to be well over 650hp with a cam swap, nitrous, rollcage/harness etc to ever attempt that.
won't be anytime soon.
parts/source;
Advanced Automotion - Corpus Christi, TX, 817 939-6761
contact: Scott Dewitt, http://www.advancedautomotion.com/
Last edited by odurandina; 11-30-2013 at 11:39 AM.
11-30-2013, 01:11 AM
#72
Intermediate
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The work you have had done is very amazing and extremely interesting. I'm happy with my stock 1-2 and the Albins short gears 3-5. My real concern is getting 6th gear at ~70mph down to about 2500. I think the .600 as a 6th is too tall for me because the rpms would be so low at 70mph (roughly 2150rpm). I've been looking at the Golen Engines LT1 block (383) for my car and it's 400hp/440tq and even that motor makes almost nothing at the rpms where the .600 will have me at 70mph. Other than fun runs or brief spots, the car doesn't see over 100mph often and mine is a daily driver that I dearly love.
The .729 might be my only personal choice for a useable 6th gear. It's puts you at 2600rpm at 70 but the stock 6th is only 2800rpm. So does it make sense to start putting gears in from the Audi for a 200 rpm drop?
You rethought your entire ratio set 3-6 based upon the engine and how you intend to use it. For me, the reality is the car won't ever be doing 190mph and how many times will I get it to a true 130mph? Not that often if I'm honest with myself. And on the few occasions I would, the brief difference between the revs of the .600 and .729 won't much matter. It's not like I would be sustaining these speeds for any length of time.
Do you have any info on the hardness rating of the metal alloy used in the Audi gears v. the stock ones? I have concerns with longevity by switching to one much less many Audi gears and then subjecting them to the torque of the V8. But my concern may not be founded in fact and that's why I'm asking. For all I know right now, the Audi gears might offer better longevity.
In the end if I go with the Golen engine I will have to think hard about the .729 as a 6th but right now it seems like a risk for a 200 rpm change. I just want to make sure the gears will last.
I run the optional sized factory tire sizes of 225/45/17 and 255/40/17.
Reply when you can and thank you for the valuable info above!
Ron B.
The .729 might be my only personal choice for a useable 6th gear. It's puts you at 2600rpm at 70 but the stock 6th is only 2800rpm. So does it make sense to start putting gears in from the Audi for a 200 rpm drop?
You rethought your entire ratio set 3-6 based upon the engine and how you intend to use it. For me, the reality is the car won't ever be doing 190mph and how many times will I get it to a true 130mph? Not that often if I'm honest with myself. And on the few occasions I would, the brief difference between the revs of the .600 and .729 won't much matter. It's not like I would be sustaining these speeds for any length of time.
Do you have any info on the hardness rating of the metal alloy used in the Audi gears v. the stock ones? I have concerns with longevity by switching to one much less many Audi gears and then subjecting them to the torque of the V8. But my concern may not be founded in fact and that's why I'm asking. For all I know right now, the Audi gears might offer better longevity.
In the end if I go with the Golen engine I will have to think hard about the .729 as a 6th but right now it seems like a risk for a 200 rpm change. I just want to make sure the gears will last.
I run the optional sized factory tire sizes of 225/45/17 and 255/40/17.
Reply when you can and thank you for the valuable info above!
Ron B.
11-30-2013, 02:04 AM
#73
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
I didn't do much at all.
just made 40 phone calls in 2007 and found Roger Brown at CMS in Lake Havasu.
he had built a box with the tall 6th gear for a renegade client.
then found Scott Dewitt for more gear that would fit.
your engine is strong enough to run that gear on all the roads you'll see.
just make sure to install the tall 5th as well.
just made 40 phone calls in 2007 and found Roger Brown at CMS in Lake Havasu.
he had built a box with the tall 6th gear for a renegade client.
then found Scott Dewitt for more gear that would fit.
your engine is strong enough to run that gear on all the roads you'll see.
just make sure to install the tall 5th as well.
07-06-2014, 03:08 PM
#74
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,704
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
car's going for the v8 in 3 weeks. it's been long, but I've been working on some other stuff.
but getting ready for the big move to v8 power....
but getting ready for the big move to v8 power....