Driving Lights Installed
08-27-2002, 06:52 PM
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Driving Lights Installed
greetings all!
OK - I did it this way. Your mileage may vary, but this works JUST like I want it to, which is:
1-each set of lights operates independently of each other
2-each set of lights operates with or withOUT having the headlights on
3-each set of lights operates with or withOUT having the high beams on
4-each set of lights operates only when the key is 'on'
5-each set flashes 'on' if they are 'off' and the high beam stalk is pulled
(driving on - fog off - pull stalk: both sets on. fog on - driving off - pull stalk: both on. both off - pull stalk: both on. both on - headlights on - pull stalk: all on w/high beams. OK - you get the idea.....)
Initially, I did the following modification, saved from 1997 PorscheFans list. Originally posted by Gregor Diseth (gsdiseth@efn.org):
Someone posted a few days ago about a February 1997 Panorama article re:
Porsche electrical systems, and in particular, how to modify the fog
lights to operate independently of the headlights.
I just walked in from the garage after completing the modification. Very
easy, and I didn't have to take apart the central electric board! I will
post my little mini procedure below, distilled from the Panorama article.
Please read it if you have a copy. See the article should your car not
conform to what I have described.
There are many reasons to perform this modification. In the US (and
possibly other countries as well) the fog lights are disabled when the
headlights are off or on high beam. First, I want to run the fog lights
as 'daytime running lights' without having the parking lights and the dash
illumination on all the time. Second, on a deserted highway at night, I
want to run the fog lights with the high beams for added lighting.
Here is the procedure. I did this on my '89 NA 944. This should apply
to most '85/2 and on cars. Please take the usual precautions - disconnect
battery negative cable, etc.
1. Unclip and remove the central electric panel cover.
2. Unplug and remove the G6 bridge adapter (it looks like a really short
relay, only about 1/2 inch tall). The part number stamped on mine is
944.610.183.06. The label inside of the central electric panel cover
labels it as 'G6 spare links' although the Panorama article refers to
it as a 'bridge adapter.' Do not confuse it with G19, which is called
an 'alarm bridge adapter' according to the label.
3. Open the G6 adapter. Mine has a plastic cover. I just spread the
base enough with my fingernails to allow the bakelite base with the
contacts sticking out to come free. If yours has a metal cover or
otherwise differs from my description, well, use your ingenuity to
open it. ;-) Be careful when you remove the cover, or all of the
connectors will fall out, and you will have created a puzzle. Guess
who did that :-)
The insides of the G6 adapter are very simple. Just a few links between
spades, and two diodes. Draw yourself a diagram of the interior so you
can put things back to stock should you get cold feet during the procedure
or want to restore the car to original. Or you can buy a new G6 adapter.
4. Here is the actual modification. The spade on the G6 adapter you are
interested in is #9. It is soldered at the junction between the two
diodes. You need to desolder and remove the spade. Be sure to leave the
two diodes connected. Or, if you do not solder, you can just cut or bend
off the spade. If you cut off the spade, put a piece of black electrical
tape over the vacated spot to prevent shorts.
Briefly, what you are actually doing (should you be wondering) is
disconnecting the low beam voltage source to the fog light switch, and
replacing it with a terminal 15 source, so your fog lights operate
independently of the lights, and switch off with the ignition.
5. Almost done. Look where G6 used to be plugged in. You will see each
slot that accepts the spades are numbered. Strip a 4 inch piece of wire
on each end, and insert one end into <slot #9> on the central electric
board. This corresponds to the #9 spade you removed from the G6 module.
You will want to stick a short spade in with the wire so it makes firm
contact, but leave the top of the socket as flush as possible. You will
be plugging G6 back in over the top of the wire you just inserted. The
other end goes under a fuse leg (nearest the center of the fuse panel, so
the wire is actually fused). This should be terminal 15 or X, so your
fog lights will shut off with the key. I chose fuse 25, which is heated
seats (which does not exist on my car - unused circuit). I would not pick
a sensitive circuit, like anything for the DME, instruments, radio, etc.,
just to be on the safe side.
Please be sure there is no exposed bare wire when you are done, and that
there are no stray strands that could potentially cause a short!
6. Carefully plug the G6 adapter back into the central electric panel
(over the wire you inserted into slot 9). Reconnect the battery negative,
and get your keys.
Testing:
A. With the key in the RUN position (dash lights on) you should be able
to flash the fog lights with the high beam stalk (original flash to pass
function with headlights retracted, parking lights OFF).
B. [New function] The fog lights should turn on with the switch, with the
headlights and parking lights OFF (daytime running light mode, if
desired).
C. Fog lights should work with the low (dipped) beams on, like usual.
D. [New function] Fog lights should work with the high beams on.
E. With fog lights ON, they should switch OFF with the key.
That's it! E-mail me if you note an error, or with any questions should
you get stuck.
Disclaimer: I am not liable for potential damage caused to your car
if you use this procedure. The procedure worked for me.
Works great - just as advertised.
Ok....that said, here's what I did next:
Upon installation of the new fog/driving lights, I simply used the EXISTING FOG LIGHT connections for the new DRIVING LIGHT side, thereby leaving the FOGS not hooked up.
So - due to the above modification, I then had the same functionality of the old fogs, in the new driving lights.
I bought a 2nd factory fog light switch from partsheaven, removed the trim to the left of the steering wheel and installed the switch in the blank which is outboard of the original fog switch.
for clarification:
inboard switch now controls DRIVING lights
outboard switch will control FOG lights
Then I did the following:
outboard switch (for fogs)
pin
1 ground - tied to pin 1 wire of existing driving light switch
2 12v out - thru firewall to term 86 on relay
3 one line to grey/yellow at pin 3 of existing switch
one line to grey blue at pine 3 of existing switch
4 from pin two of itself - see above
5 flash - from black lead at pin 5 on existing switch
6 12v in - tied to pin 2 (grey/red) of existing driving light switch.
AND bridged to pin two on itself
RELAY terminals (note - not as some other relays, but per the pkg labels)
30 12v out to lights
85 ground
86 12v in (trigger) from pin 2 of new switch
87 12 direct from + side of batt
I fabbed a small right-angle bracket for the relay and installed it on the cruise control servo unit in the engine compartment as it is close to the battery and also has a ground point close by.
I ran the trigger wire from pin 2 on the new switch under the dash to the passenger side and fished it thru an existing hole up to the battery area and then thru another existing hole from the battery compartment to the engine compartment to term 86 on the relay along with another line from the + side of the batt to term 87 on the relay. Don't forget to dab a bit of silicone sealant on the wire/hole to keep the wire from moving and eventually stripping off the insulation.
passengers side light.
with the entire light removed (the grey housing and all) i took a small awl and punched a hole thru the grommet that is in the back of the grey housing. just keep feeding line thru there - and keep looking inside the engine compartment - down low - where the wire will eventually show up. its hard to describe this, but i just keep feeding line (yellow for hi visibility) and then pulled it up and found a logical, gentle route to the mounted relay. connect this line to the lead from the (new) lamp. i then tied the ground from the OEM harness to both lamp 'frames' to keep the number of extra wires to a minimum.
Repeat for the drivers side - running the line up the fender, then across the rear of the engine compartment (using existing zip ties, etc.) around to the relay and join BOTH wires to terminal 30 a the relay.
Test out the connections/functions before you finally bolt up the light fixtures.
they should operate as follows:
both light switches 'icon' should be gently lit just like/along with the other dash switches
turning on the outboard switch should activate the outboard lights - the fogs
turing on the inboard switch should activate the inboard lights - the driving lights
with both switches off, pulling the high beam stalk will illuminate both sets of lights
with fogs on/driving lights off, pulling the stalk will illuminate the driving lights as well
with fogs off/driving lights on, pulling the stalk will illuminate the fog lights as well
each switch has a green light to show when the corresponding lights are on
Test everything before you bolt em up! Use your voltmeter!!!
I got into a bit of a problem when I had the + and the - reversed when I installed the lines to the additional switch - it made for some very interesting lighting control!!!!
I also installed some of the clear stoneguards over the lenses. Jason at paragon said that they are only designed for the lower wattage lamps (I'm running 100w in both the fog and driving positions) and they do get hot - but there has been no discoloration. they DO get warm if you have both sets of lights on, but i put 2000 highway miles on em and they still look great. its amazing how good i thought my OEM lenses were until i compared them to the new ones from paragon. 13 years of road rash is amazing and the new ones look fabulous!
I realize this is post a bit vague and a true 'stream of consciousness' but its been a few weeks since I did the install - feel free to quiz me on anything or correct any errors.
Cheers!
Brian Young
Washington951@aol.com
Freelance Cameraman
Washington, DC
89 951 satin black metallic/linen
Huntley MAF Stage 3, ARC2/ARM1, HKS EVC IV, Autothority 2.7 chips, C2 17's, Saratoga Top, V1...
OK - I did it this way. Your mileage may vary, but this works JUST like I want it to, which is:
1-each set of lights operates independently of each other
2-each set of lights operates with or withOUT having the headlights on
3-each set of lights operates with or withOUT having the high beams on
4-each set of lights operates only when the key is 'on'
5-each set flashes 'on' if they are 'off' and the high beam stalk is pulled
(driving on - fog off - pull stalk: both sets on. fog on - driving off - pull stalk: both on. both off - pull stalk: both on. both on - headlights on - pull stalk: all on w/high beams. OK - you get the idea.....)
Initially, I did the following modification, saved from 1997 PorscheFans list. Originally posted by Gregor Diseth (gsdiseth@efn.org):
Someone posted a few days ago about a February 1997 Panorama article re:
Porsche electrical systems, and in particular, how to modify the fog
lights to operate independently of the headlights.
I just walked in from the garage after completing the modification. Very
easy, and I didn't have to take apart the central electric board! I will
post my little mini procedure below, distilled from the Panorama article.
Please read it if you have a copy. See the article should your car not
conform to what I have described.
There are many reasons to perform this modification. In the US (and
possibly other countries as well) the fog lights are disabled when the
headlights are off or on high beam. First, I want to run the fog lights
as 'daytime running lights' without having the parking lights and the dash
illumination on all the time. Second, on a deserted highway at night, I
want to run the fog lights with the high beams for added lighting.
Here is the procedure. I did this on my '89 NA 944. This should apply
to most '85/2 and on cars. Please take the usual precautions - disconnect
battery negative cable, etc.
1. Unclip and remove the central electric panel cover.
2. Unplug and remove the G6 bridge adapter (it looks like a really short
relay, only about 1/2 inch tall). The part number stamped on mine is
944.610.183.06. The label inside of the central electric panel cover
labels it as 'G6 spare links' although the Panorama article refers to
it as a 'bridge adapter.' Do not confuse it with G19, which is called
an 'alarm bridge adapter' according to the label.
3. Open the G6 adapter. Mine has a plastic cover. I just spread the
base enough with my fingernails to allow the bakelite base with the
contacts sticking out to come free. If yours has a metal cover or
otherwise differs from my description, well, use your ingenuity to
open it. ;-) Be careful when you remove the cover, or all of the
connectors will fall out, and you will have created a puzzle. Guess
who did that :-)
The insides of the G6 adapter are very simple. Just a few links between
spades, and two diodes. Draw yourself a diagram of the interior so you
can put things back to stock should you get cold feet during the procedure
or want to restore the car to original. Or you can buy a new G6 adapter.
4. Here is the actual modification. The spade on the G6 adapter you are
interested in is #9. It is soldered at the junction between the two
diodes. You need to desolder and remove the spade. Be sure to leave the
two diodes connected. Or, if you do not solder, you can just cut or bend
off the spade. If you cut off the spade, put a piece of black electrical
tape over the vacated spot to prevent shorts.
Briefly, what you are actually doing (should you be wondering) is
disconnecting the low beam voltage source to the fog light switch, and
replacing it with a terminal 15 source, so your fog lights operate
independently of the lights, and switch off with the ignition.
5. Almost done. Look where G6 used to be plugged in. You will see each
slot that accepts the spades are numbered. Strip a 4 inch piece of wire
on each end, and insert one end into <slot #9> on the central electric
board. This corresponds to the #9 spade you removed from the G6 module.
You will want to stick a short spade in with the wire so it makes firm
contact, but leave the top of the socket as flush as possible. You will
be plugging G6 back in over the top of the wire you just inserted. The
other end goes under a fuse leg (nearest the center of the fuse panel, so
the wire is actually fused). This should be terminal 15 or X, so your
fog lights will shut off with the key. I chose fuse 25, which is heated
seats (which does not exist on my car - unused circuit). I would not pick
a sensitive circuit, like anything for the DME, instruments, radio, etc.,
just to be on the safe side.
Please be sure there is no exposed bare wire when you are done, and that
there are no stray strands that could potentially cause a short!
6. Carefully plug the G6 adapter back into the central electric panel
(over the wire you inserted into slot 9). Reconnect the battery negative,
and get your keys.
Testing:
A. With the key in the RUN position (dash lights on) you should be able
to flash the fog lights with the high beam stalk (original flash to pass
function with headlights retracted, parking lights OFF).
B. [New function] The fog lights should turn on with the switch, with the
headlights and parking lights OFF (daytime running light mode, if
desired).
C. Fog lights should work with the low (dipped) beams on, like usual.
D. [New function] Fog lights should work with the high beams on.
E. With fog lights ON, they should switch OFF with the key.
That's it! E-mail me if you note an error, or with any questions should
you get stuck.
Disclaimer: I am not liable for potential damage caused to your car
if you use this procedure. The procedure worked for me.
Works great - just as advertised.
Ok....that said, here's what I did next:
Upon installation of the new fog/driving lights, I simply used the EXISTING FOG LIGHT connections for the new DRIVING LIGHT side, thereby leaving the FOGS not hooked up.
So - due to the above modification, I then had the same functionality of the old fogs, in the new driving lights.
I bought a 2nd factory fog light switch from partsheaven, removed the trim to the left of the steering wheel and installed the switch in the blank which is outboard of the original fog switch.
for clarification:
inboard switch now controls DRIVING lights
outboard switch will control FOG lights
Then I did the following:
outboard switch (for fogs)
pin
1 ground - tied to pin 1 wire of existing driving light switch
2 12v out - thru firewall to term 86 on relay
3 one line to grey/yellow at pin 3 of existing switch
one line to grey blue at pine 3 of existing switch
4 from pin two of itself - see above
5 flash - from black lead at pin 5 on existing switch
6 12v in - tied to pin 2 (grey/red) of existing driving light switch.
AND bridged to pin two on itself
RELAY terminals (note - not as some other relays, but per the pkg labels)
30 12v out to lights
85 ground
86 12v in (trigger) from pin 2 of new switch
87 12 direct from + side of batt
I fabbed a small right-angle bracket for the relay and installed it on the cruise control servo unit in the engine compartment as it is close to the battery and also has a ground point close by.
I ran the trigger wire from pin 2 on the new switch under the dash to the passenger side and fished it thru an existing hole up to the battery area and then thru another existing hole from the battery compartment to the engine compartment to term 86 on the relay along with another line from the + side of the batt to term 87 on the relay. Don't forget to dab a bit of silicone sealant on the wire/hole to keep the wire from moving and eventually stripping off the insulation.
passengers side light.
with the entire light removed (the grey housing and all) i took a small awl and punched a hole thru the grommet that is in the back of the grey housing. just keep feeding line thru there - and keep looking inside the engine compartment - down low - where the wire will eventually show up. its hard to describe this, but i just keep feeding line (yellow for hi visibility) and then pulled it up and found a logical, gentle route to the mounted relay. connect this line to the lead from the (new) lamp. i then tied the ground from the OEM harness to both lamp 'frames' to keep the number of extra wires to a minimum.
Repeat for the drivers side - running the line up the fender, then across the rear of the engine compartment (using existing zip ties, etc.) around to the relay and join BOTH wires to terminal 30 a the relay.
Test out the connections/functions before you finally bolt up the light fixtures.
they should operate as follows:
both light switches 'icon' should be gently lit just like/along with the other dash switches
turning on the outboard switch should activate the outboard lights - the fogs
turing on the inboard switch should activate the inboard lights - the driving lights
with both switches off, pulling the high beam stalk will illuminate both sets of lights
with fogs on/driving lights off, pulling the stalk will illuminate the driving lights as well
with fogs off/driving lights on, pulling the stalk will illuminate the fog lights as well
each switch has a green light to show when the corresponding lights are on
Test everything before you bolt em up! Use your voltmeter!!!
I got into a bit of a problem when I had the + and the - reversed when I installed the lines to the additional switch - it made for some very interesting lighting control!!!!
I also installed some of the clear stoneguards over the lenses. Jason at paragon said that they are only designed for the lower wattage lamps (I'm running 100w in both the fog and driving positions) and they do get hot - but there has been no discoloration. they DO get warm if you have both sets of lights on, but i put 2000 highway miles on em and they still look great. its amazing how good i thought my OEM lenses were until i compared them to the new ones from paragon. 13 years of road rash is amazing and the new ones look fabulous!
I realize this is post a bit vague and a true 'stream of consciousness' but its been a few weeks since I did the install - feel free to quiz me on anything or correct any errors.
Cheers!
Brian Young
Washington951@aol.com
Freelance Cameraman
Washington, DC
89 951 satin black metallic/linen
Huntley MAF Stage 3, ARC2/ARM1, HKS EVC IV, Autothority 2.7 chips, C2 17's, Saratoga Top, V1...
08-27-2002, 07:42 PM
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I find it somewhat irking that few remember that fog lights are FOG LIGHTS!!!
The reason they are linked to the head lights is a legal requirement in most states. Reason: You can not have more than two sets of "headlights" on at the same time.
I find it a serious pisser to be blinded by modified fog lights (driving lights in all practicality) that are brighter than the high beams. Especially when the A-hole is behind me on city streets.
Now I do have mine modified to come on with the parking lights as well as the headlights. And they are a bit brighter than stock. I'm just a bit more respectful of the other drivers.
The reason they are linked to the head lights is a legal requirement in most states. Reason: You can not have more than two sets of "headlights" on at the same time.
I find it a serious pisser to be blinded by modified fog lights (driving lights in all practicality) that are brighter than the high beams. Especially when the A-hole is behind me on city streets.
Now I do have mine modified to come on with the parking lights as well as the headlights. And they are a bit brighter than stock. I'm just a bit more respectful of the other drivers.
08-27-2002, 08:24 PM
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aimed properly, they aren't a problem OR a danger to other drivers. guess i should have put that in the post, but i thought that was a no-brainer.
as much as i like HID/Xenons, they ARE a problem for oncoming drivers at times.
wow, they're bright!
i have a black car - i feel that turning these extra lights on helps cars see ME - especially during the day. oh - and i can now melt bumpers of all those a-holes that do NOT belong in the left lane.... <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
as much as i like HID/Xenons, they ARE a problem for oncoming drivers at times.
wow, they're bright!
i have a black car - i feel that turning these extra lights on helps cars see ME - especially during the day. oh - and i can now melt bumpers of all those a-holes that do NOT belong in the left lane.... <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
08-27-2002, 10:34 PM
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thanks! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
there have been lots of posts on this in the past and they all seem to ask 'how to do it'....i must say that it could not have been done without the help of the list - i gleaned so MUCH information from others here that helped SO MUCH. this place rules. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
there have been lots of posts on this in the past and they all seem to ask 'how to do it'....i must say that it could not have been done without the help of the list - i gleaned so MUCH information from others here that helped SO MUCH. this place rules. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
08-28-2002, 12:29 AM
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OK whats the deal with my fog lights. I can turn my fog lights on in my 951 by just turning the light wheel to the first position to turn the dash lights on, and I just flip the fog light switch and they come on fine.
If I want to pop my headlights up, I'll turn the light wheel once more, but in many cases, I just use the fog lights and keep my pop up headlights down. So this isn't the way it is from the factory? Oooooo, I got a post-sale perk I didnt even know about. CHA CHING. <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />
If I want to pop my headlights up, I'll turn the light wheel once more, but in many cases, I just use the fog lights and keep my pop up headlights down. So this isn't the way it is from the factory? Oooooo, I got a post-sale perk I didnt even know about. CHA CHING. <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />
08-28-2002, 08:28 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by UDPride:
<strong>OK whats the deal with my fog lights. I can turn my fog lights on in my 951 by just turning the light wheel to the first position to turn the dash lights on, and I just flip the fog light switch and they come on fine.
If I want to pop my headlights up, I'll turn the light wheel once more, but in many cases, I just use the fog lights and keep my pop up headlights down. So this isn't the way it is from the factory? Oooooo, I got a post-sale perk I didnt even know about. CHA CHING. <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep, that's the way it works from the factory. If you re-read Brian's post, he wanted the fog lights to come on WITHOUT the parking lights to come on. That's why he did the mod.
I also often do as you do... fog lights on instead of the pop-up lights... until I really need to actually see down the road.
<strong>OK whats the deal with my fog lights. I can turn my fog lights on in my 951 by just turning the light wheel to the first position to turn the dash lights on, and I just flip the fog light switch and they come on fine.
If I want to pop my headlights up, I'll turn the light wheel once more, but in many cases, I just use the fog lights and keep my pop up headlights down. So this isn't the way it is from the factory? Oooooo, I got a post-sale perk I didnt even know about. CHA CHING. <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep, that's the way it works from the factory. If you re-read Brian's post, he wanted the fog lights to come on WITHOUT the parking lights to come on. That's why he did the mod.
I also often do as you do... fog lights on instead of the pop-up lights... until I really need to actually see down the road.
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08-28-2002, 07:11 PM
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is that the way it came from the factory? i'm not so sure.
i think originally, (in this car AND my previous 86 951) i had to pop up the headlights up in order for the fogs to operate. its been a while, tho - and i think it also might depend on what relay you have controlling your fogs....but i could be VERY wrong!
i think originally, (in this car AND my previous 86 951) i had to pop up the headlights up in order for the fogs to operate. its been a while, tho - and i think it also might depend on what relay you have controlling your fogs....but i could be VERY wrong!
08-29-2002, 01:40 AM
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Here in Canada we have to have daytime running lights. I cannot remember what year that started. My 1983 does not have that feature and I truly believe that these lights save lives, so I try and drive with the park lights on and fog lights on. It sure would be nice to have the fog lights come on when the key is turned on to drive.
Besides I think it looks cool seeing vehicles coming with day time lights on. Not seeing them dates the car.
The work that was done in the above post to accomplish this is way above is above my head.
So I will have to remember to switch my lights off like the old days.
zee
Besides I think it looks cool seeing vehicles coming with day time lights on. Not seeing them dates the car.
The work that was done in the above post to accomplish this is way above is above my head.
So I will have to remember to switch my lights off like the old days.
zee
08-29-2002, 02:15 PM
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"Daytime running lights" are probably the saddest innovation in the auto/safety industry. To assume that we're too stupid to notice a moving 3,000 pound object speaks volumes about their mentality. And anybody who can't see a car unless it has lights on, has no business behind the wheel. There are specific situations when your car may not be seen easily like in a parking lot, where it may be hard to dicsern moving from non-moving cars. So there's this really high-tech invention...PARKING lights. There's also a couple of neat things where I live, that apparently not everyone knows about. They both assist in helping drivers see things. The first thing is the SUN, which really helps illuminate things during certain hours. And when that's not available, we have these things called "street lights". They actually produce artificial sunlight and aim it onto the streets. The intelligent can see where my rant is going... If you kiddies just want your car to be seen, paint the damn thing yellow and put Christmas lights all over it. If you want "safety", use the most powerful piece of safety equipment ever --- your brain.
08-29-2002, 03:07 PM
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Arctic-
I have to disagree with you completely. There are times when DRLs have nearly saved me from an accident. I was driving head on into the sun just two weeks ago and pretty much couldnt see a thing except the white line on the right side I was following with my fender. Car approaching me on a two-lane rural road cam dangerously close to crossing the median. I saw it just in time to give him room, but without his DRLs, I would have had a good half second less reaction time. A half second can mean everything.
Also, Ive had cars approaching me that were painted black and the background behind them was the exact same color. The speed of their car was such that you couldnt discern very well if something was moving in front of it from a distance. Ive got 20/20 vision I swear by the DRLs. People on the whole are terrible drivers and if you can give me any additional tool or advantage to avoid running into these morons, Im all for it.
I couldnt begin to count how many times Ive had the sun directly in front of me or behind me and nearly blinded completely and were it not for a car's DRLs I have had no clue he was there.
The topic of people driving until its 10pm without flipping their headlights on is another argument altogether.
I have to disagree with you completely. There are times when DRLs have nearly saved me from an accident. I was driving head on into the sun just two weeks ago and pretty much couldnt see a thing except the white line on the right side I was following with my fender. Car approaching me on a two-lane rural road cam dangerously close to crossing the median. I saw it just in time to give him room, but without his DRLs, I would have had a good half second less reaction time. A half second can mean everything.
Also, Ive had cars approaching me that were painted black and the background behind them was the exact same color. The speed of their car was such that you couldnt discern very well if something was moving in front of it from a distance. Ive got 20/20 vision I swear by the DRLs. People on the whole are terrible drivers and if you can give me any additional tool or advantage to avoid running into these morons, Im all for it.
I couldnt begin to count how many times Ive had the sun directly in front of me or behind me and nearly blinded completely and were it not for a car's DRLs I have had no clue he was there.
The topic of people driving until its 10pm without flipping their headlights on is another argument altogether.
08-29-2002, 03:24 PM
#13
Race Car
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Save the rant ArcticCzar. While I agree with you totally -- there has been no study where all the cars have day time running lights on -- the studies that were used were marginal in that the difference was hardly above back ground noise (stat speak).
The whole argument is summed up in Zehnd's post where he states: "I truly believe that these lights save lives". This has become an emotional argument based little on facts and mostly on an emerging Liberal Environmental religion -- a "belief".
I just read the most recent National Geographic that the kid gets and found at least five points on the included map that are totally liberal emotional arguments ignoring the facts.
To all of the 944 drivers out there these people are bound and determine that you are going to ride bikes or walk.
[quote]Originally posted by ArcticCzar:
<strong>"Daytime running lights" are probably the saddest innovation in the auto/safety industry. To assume that we're too stupid to notice a moving 3,000 pound object speaks volumes about their mentality. And anybody who can't see a car unless it has lights on, has no business behind the wheel. There are specific situations when your car may not be seen easily like in a parking lot, where it may be hard to dicsern moving from non-moving cars. So there's this really high-tech invention...PARKING lights. There's also a couple of neat things where I live, that apparently not everyone knows about. They both assist in helping drivers see things. The first thing is the SUN, which really helps illuminate things during certain hours. And when that's not available, we have these things called "street lights". They actually produce artificial sunlight and aim it onto the streets. The intelligent can see where my rant is going... If you kiddies just want your car to be seen, paint the damn thing yellow and put Christmas lights all over it. If you want "safety", use the most powerful piece of safety equipment ever --- your brain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The whole argument is summed up in Zehnd's post where he states: "I truly believe that these lights save lives". This has become an emotional argument based little on facts and mostly on an emerging Liberal Environmental religion -- a "belief".
I just read the most recent National Geographic that the kid gets and found at least five points on the included map that are totally liberal emotional arguments ignoring the facts.
To all of the 944 drivers out there these people are bound and determine that you are going to ride bikes or walk.
[quote]Originally posted by ArcticCzar:
<strong>"Daytime running lights" are probably the saddest innovation in the auto/safety industry. To assume that we're too stupid to notice a moving 3,000 pound object speaks volumes about their mentality. And anybody who can't see a car unless it has lights on, has no business behind the wheel. There are specific situations when your car may not be seen easily like in a parking lot, where it may be hard to dicsern moving from non-moving cars. So there's this really high-tech invention...PARKING lights. There's also a couple of neat things where I live, that apparently not everyone knows about. They both assist in helping drivers see things. The first thing is the SUN, which really helps illuminate things during certain hours. And when that's not available, we have these things called "street lights". They actually produce artificial sunlight and aim it onto the streets. The intelligent can see where my rant is going... If you kiddies just want your car to be seen, paint the damn thing yellow and put Christmas lights all over it. If you want "safety", use the most powerful piece of safety equipment ever --- your brain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
08-29-2002, 05:42 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
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Hmmm.. I seem to recall the same arguements being made against seat belts in the mid-'60's when they first became mandatory equipment... "I'd rather be thrown clear of a wreck!" "Government interference!" "Taking away our freedom!"
FWIW, in the first two months of owning my dark green 968, I had several "other guy didn't see me" type close calls. I started burning the parking & fog lights full-time during the day. I've had about the same total mumber of such incidents in the two years since.
The worst close call was one clear Sunday mid-day last summer when I forgot to turn them on; fool made a U-turn right in front of me on a two-lane road. I dodged him by about the thickness of a layer of paint...
So y'all do what you want. I'll keep on burning the fogs...
Jim, "Real men don't need seat belts! They can chew thru the dash at 60 mph!"
FWIW, in the first two months of owning my dark green 968, I had several "other guy didn't see me" type close calls. I started burning the parking & fog lights full-time during the day. I've had about the same total mumber of such incidents in the two years since.
The worst close call was one clear Sunday mid-day last summer when I forgot to turn them on; fool made a U-turn right in front of me on a two-lane road. I dodged him by about the thickness of a layer of paint...
So y'all do what you want. I'll keep on burning the fogs...
Jim, "Real men don't need seat belts! They can chew thru the dash at 60 mph!"
08-29-2002, 06:18 PM
#15
Racer
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Comparing seat belts with lighting is ridiculous. Seat belts have no bearing whatsoever on other drivers. Day lights, on the other hand, only exist to distract other drivers. As far as "day lights saved me from a wreck", that makes my argument for me. You're saying either the other driver was too stupid, or you weren't a good enough driver to sense a potential accident. Am I the only one here old enough (31 years) to remember the phrase "defensive driving"? I could go on for hours about the accidents I've avoided by being an alert driver - all avoided without the crutch of daytime running lights.