Wipers not working - update
01-20-2003, 06:00 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Wipers not working - update
Alright, my wipers aren't working. It seems to be weather related (started when it got cold/snowy), but now I'm not so sure that's the problem. Here's a list of semi-relevent information:
Definitions:
wipers didn't work: any switch position results in no effect - no voltage dip @ voltmeter on dash, no slow wipers, no sounds (other than click of switch changing position), no anything. "Wash" will spray but wipers don't run.
wipers work: work exactly as they should.
12/1/02: Hit guardrail
12/30/02: Try to move car to shop to get alignment done, battery dead & wipers don't work. Jump start & drive blind (no wipers) to mechanic. After about a half-hour of driving, wipers started working.
1/1/03: Driving home, wipers worked fine whole 2 hr drive home.
1/15/03: Try wipers again, don't work for whole 30min drive home.
1/16/03: Clean out drain holes/area around wipers - basically a good "look over".
1/16/03: Wipers don't work at first, but after shaking them around a little they worked fine.
1/18/03: Try wipers again, no effect for whole 2hr drive.
1/20/03: Try wipers again, no effect for whole 2hr drive.
Every time that they don't work I turn them off quickly as to avoid burning out the motor, but I'm pretty sure the motor isn't getting any juice.
I know where the motor is located, but I can't get that plastic sheild off from above it. I pulled up the weatherstrip on the front of it & could get the front edge up, but can't lift the edge near the windsheild as it's glued to the windsheild. Is this supposed to be glued here? If so, how do I get to the motor? If not, what does hold it? If I have to break it off the windsheild (it's real fragile, 10* outside), how much does a new one cost?
Since I'm 90% positive it's an electrical problem as there is no slow-moving wipers, it's either all or none, can any of you give me more spots to check, or rule out any of the following:
Wiper motor ground (under the motor?)
Relay - how much for a new?
Switch - last resort, ~$200 for new
Update:
Alright, I took the car to the mechanic to see what he could find. I dropped the car off friday night & it sat in his heated garage overnight & he looked at it saturday. He said that when he tried them in the morning they worked perfectly fine...which means it's gotta be weather related. Thing is I had the relay sitting inside for a few days, so it might be that it doesn't work when it's cold. But he also had the car sitting inside at the shop overnight, so it might be something else that needed to be warm.
I guess this doesn't help my diagnosis of the problem then because everything was warm. So where do you think the problem is?
Relay: It worked when the relay sat inside for a few days. Mechanic says he thinks it's this because it might be getting moisture in there & freezing up in cold. Relay looks brand new.
Motor: Is it possible/probable that the cold/moisture is getting in the motor & freezing it up to keep it from moving?
Switch: If it is the switch, wouldn't just one(or two) position not work, but all the positions either work, or none of the positions work.
Right now I have the relay sitting inside & the car outside. Should be able to rule out the relay if I go out later today/tomarrow & the wipers don't work I guess.
Definitions:
wipers didn't work: any switch position results in no effect - no voltage dip @ voltmeter on dash, no slow wipers, no sounds (other than click of switch changing position), no anything. "Wash" will spray but wipers don't run.
wipers work: work exactly as they should.
12/1/02: Hit guardrail
12/30/02: Try to move car to shop to get alignment done, battery dead & wipers don't work. Jump start & drive blind (no wipers) to mechanic. After about a half-hour of driving, wipers started working.
1/1/03: Driving home, wipers worked fine whole 2 hr drive home.
1/15/03: Try wipers again, don't work for whole 30min drive home.
1/16/03: Clean out drain holes/area around wipers - basically a good "look over".
1/16/03: Wipers don't work at first, but after shaking them around a little they worked fine.
1/18/03: Try wipers again, no effect for whole 2hr drive.
1/20/03: Try wipers again, no effect for whole 2hr drive.
Every time that they don't work I turn them off quickly as to avoid burning out the motor, but I'm pretty sure the motor isn't getting any juice.
I know where the motor is located, but I can't get that plastic sheild off from above it. I pulled up the weatherstrip on the front of it & could get the front edge up, but can't lift the edge near the windsheild as it's glued to the windsheild. Is this supposed to be glued here? If so, how do I get to the motor? If not, what does hold it? If I have to break it off the windsheild (it's real fragile, 10* outside), how much does a new one cost?
Since I'm 90% positive it's an electrical problem as there is no slow-moving wipers, it's either all or none, can any of you give me more spots to check, or rule out any of the following:
Wiper motor ground (under the motor?)
Relay - how much for a new?
Switch - last resort, ~$200 for new
Update:
Alright, I took the car to the mechanic to see what he could find. I dropped the car off friday night & it sat in his heated garage overnight & he looked at it saturday. He said that when he tried them in the morning they worked perfectly fine...which means it's gotta be weather related. Thing is I had the relay sitting inside for a few days, so it might be that it doesn't work when it's cold. But he also had the car sitting inside at the shop overnight, so it might be something else that needed to be warm.
I guess this doesn't help my diagnosis of the problem then because everything was warm. So where do you think the problem is?
Relay: It worked when the relay sat inside for a few days. Mechanic says he thinks it's this because it might be getting moisture in there & freezing up in cold. Relay looks brand new.
Motor: Is it possible/probable that the cold/moisture is getting in the motor & freezing it up to keep it from moving?
Switch: If it is the switch, wouldn't just one(or two) position not work, but all the positions either work, or none of the positions work.
Right now I have the relay sitting inside & the car outside. Should be able to rule out the relay if I go out later today/tomarrow & the wipers don't work I guess.
01-20-2003, 06:55 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2002
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Sorry I don't know, but to anyone that can help you and knows about the wiper assembly I will throw in my question as well: My wipers don't stop at the end of the cycle where they should. If I stop them in the middle of the windsheild, they just stop dead, sitting wherever they happen to be when I stop them. What causes this? Is it a bad motor? $$ to fix? Thanks
01-20-2003, 09:13 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
also I should note that I did see a voltage spike when I flipped the switch, so I know the switch is working.
This leads me to believe it's either the motor or the connections to the motor/grounds. I'm going to go & try and "help" the wipers along...if that works, then I would be led to beleive it's the motor. If it doesn't, then should I trust that it's a connection?
If it's either of these, I'm going to need to get to the motor...how do I get that plastic cover off (the one covering the fan/blower between the battery & the fuse box?
This leads me to believe it's either the motor or the connections to the motor/grounds. I'm going to go & try and "help" the wipers along...if that works, then I would be led to beleive it's the motor. If it doesn't, then should I trust that it's a connection?
If it's either of these, I'm going to need to get to the motor...how do I get that plastic cover off (the one covering the fan/blower between the battery & the fuse box?
01-20-2003, 09:58 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by ERAU944 needs a m.s. rack 
:
<strong>mouse your problem is relay, can be up to $40</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Is it? Ok Thanks
:<strong>mouse your problem is relay, can be up to $40</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Is it? Ok Thanks
01-20-2003, 10:46 PM
#7
Drifting
Thread Starter
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by [ mouse ]:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by ERAU944 needs a m.s. rack :
<strong>mouse your problem is relay, can be up to $40</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Is it? Ok Thanks</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Yeah, I was doing a few searches and it seems that if they don't "sit" right (as you described) the problem is almost always the relay.
Still can't figure out how to get at the motor to fix my wiring problem...
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by ERAU944 needs a m.s. rack
:<strong>mouse your problem is relay, can be up to $40</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Is it? Ok Thanks</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Yeah, I was doing a few searches and it seems that if they don't "sit" right (as you described) the problem is almost always the relay.
Still can't figure out how to get at the motor to fix my wiring problem...
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01-20-2003, 10:59 PM
#8
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Scootin159:
<strong>mouse your problem is relay, can be up to $40</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Mouse, my wipers do the same thing. The mech. that did the PPI said it was down to a microswitch in the motor that cuts off power when it hits the 'park' position.
I can get a used motor for about $40 but it stays on the bottom of my list as it looked a pig to replace and it is my weekend car.
If the relay works for you please let me know and I will give it a try.
Perhaps time for a relay swapping party.
Chris
<strong>mouse your problem is relay, can be up to $40</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Mouse, my wipers do the same thing. The mech. that did the PPI said it was down to a microswitch in the motor that cuts off power when it hits the 'park' position.
I can get a used motor for about $40 but it stays on the bottom of my list as it looked a pig to replace and it is my weekend car.
If the relay works for you please let me know and I will give it a try.
Perhaps time for a relay swapping party.
Chris
01-20-2003, 11:47 PM
#9
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I went through this exact exercise last year. Wipers were fine when I bought the car then as it got colder they became intermittent. Somtime, helping them with my hand would get them started, other times they were completely dead.
I started with the easiest thing first, the relay. Now I have two good relays. Next was to take out the rack/motor. I tested it by putting 12 Volts DC on various pins and it would work fine but not in the car. I then ordered a new stalk switch and removed airbag and everything to test that. No go. Put the old stalk switches back and ordered a used Ebay wiper motor for testing.
Hooked that up to switch harness under the hood and it worked perfectly. I then ordered an Ebay rack and motor to make replacement easier. I put the good motor onto the original rack and now have a spare assembly.
I was able to pull the old motor apart for inspection. It was so rusty in nasty in there I couldn't believe it would turn at all during 12 Volt testing. I don't know what was wrong with the motor but the used rack/motor fixed it.
It was a pain to remove and replace the rack twice and I have a new windshield to prove it. Watch out for that glass as it only takes one slip of the wrench to guarantee a windshield replacement.
I started with the easiest thing first, the relay. Now I have two good relays. Next was to take out the rack/motor. I tested it by putting 12 Volts DC on various pins and it would work fine but not in the car. I then ordered a new stalk switch and removed airbag and everything to test that. No go. Put the old stalk switches back and ordered a used Ebay wiper motor for testing.
Hooked that up to switch harness under the hood and it worked perfectly. I then ordered an Ebay rack and motor to make replacement easier. I put the good motor onto the original rack and now have a spare assembly.
I was able to pull the old motor apart for inspection. It was so rusty in nasty in there I couldn't believe it would turn at all during 12 Volt testing. I don't know what was wrong with the motor but the used rack/motor fixed it.
It was a pain to remove and replace the rack twice and I have a new windshield to prove it. Watch out for that glass as it only takes one slip of the wrench to guarantee a windshield replacement.
01-21-2003, 12:03 AM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by tjbreen:
<strong>I went through this exact exercise last year. Wipers were fine when I bought the car then as it got colder they became intermittent. Somtime, helping them with my hand would get them started, other times they were completely dead.
I started with the easiest thing first, the relay. Now I have two good relays. Next was to take out the rack/motor. I tested it by putting 12 Volts DC on various pins and it would work fine but not in the car. I then ordered a new stalk switch and removed airbag and everything to test that. No go. Put the old stalk switches back and ordered a used Ebay wiper motor for testing.
Hooked that up to switch harness under the hood and it worked perfectly. I then ordered an Ebay rack and motor to make replacement easier. I put the good motor onto the original rack and now have a spare assembly.
I was able to pull the old motor apart for inspection. It was so rusty in nasty in there I couldn't believe it would turn at all during 12 Volt testing. I don't know what was wrong with the motor but the used rack/motor fixed it.
It was a pain to remove and replace the rack twice and I have a new windshield to prove it. Watch out for that glass as it only takes one slip of the wrench to guarantee a windshield replacement.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hmm...so in your case it was the motor. How did you get that plastic cover off above the motor?
<strong>I went through this exact exercise last year. Wipers were fine when I bought the car then as it got colder they became intermittent. Somtime, helping them with my hand would get them started, other times they were completely dead.
I started with the easiest thing first, the relay. Now I have two good relays. Next was to take out the rack/motor. I tested it by putting 12 Volts DC on various pins and it would work fine but not in the car. I then ordered a new stalk switch and removed airbag and everything to test that. No go. Put the old stalk switches back and ordered a used Ebay wiper motor for testing.
Hooked that up to switch harness under the hood and it worked perfectly. I then ordered an Ebay rack and motor to make replacement easier. I put the good motor onto the original rack and now have a spare assembly.
I was able to pull the old motor apart for inspection. It was so rusty in nasty in there I couldn't believe it would turn at all during 12 Volt testing. I don't know what was wrong with the motor but the used rack/motor fixed it.
It was a pain to remove and replace the rack twice and I have a new windshield to prove it. Watch out for that glass as it only takes one slip of the wrench to guarantee a windshield replacement.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hmm...so in your case it was the motor. How did you get that plastic cover off above the motor?
01-21-2003, 12:09 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
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Scoot: the plastic cover is held in place at the top with double sided tape,you will need to pry it up slowly and carefully or you will destroy the cover. To remove the wiper motor you need to remove the air box behind the firewall, once you get all the screws out you need to pry it up as it is sealed to the body with putty, after 15 years its a little reluctant to separate. Once that is out of your way, remove the entire wiper and transmission assy. as a unit, then replace the motor while it is out of the car. Make sure the motor is parked before you install it, Hook up the wires and turn the wipers on and then off to let the motor park, then attatch to the trans and ionstall. Good luck Mark T.
01-21-2003, 11:22 AM
#12
Race Director
Just a little warning: my wipers stopped functioning last November on the way to work. They stayed in the upright position no matter what I did with the wiper switch.
By the time I got to work, I smelled a 'electric burning smell.' The wiper was still going! The motor was too hot to touch!
Fortunately, I had cleaned out the cowl area of leaves and debris a while back.
So whatever is the problem, make sure that the cowl area is free of dry leaves that can burn real nice.
-Z-man.
By the time I got to work, I smelled a 'electric burning smell.' The wiper was still going! The motor was too hot to touch!
Fortunately, I had cleaned out the cowl area of leaves and debris a while back.
So whatever is the problem, make sure that the cowl area is free of dry leaves that can burn real nice.
-Z-man.
01-21-2003, 11:50 AM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Z-man:
<strong>Just a little warning: my wipers stopped functioning last November on the way to work. They stayed in the upright position no matter what I did with the wiper switch.
By the time I got to work, I smelled a 'electric burning smell.' The wiper was still going! The motor was too hot to touch!
Fortunately, I had cleaned out the cowl area of leaves and debris a while back.
So whatever is the problem, make sure that the cowl area is free of dry leaves that can burn real nice.
-Z-man.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Did this the first night it was having trouble...didn't dare leave it in the garage without checking things out first.
I've also taken the relay out until I can get things working.
<strong>Just a little warning: my wipers stopped functioning last November on the way to work. They stayed in the upright position no matter what I did with the wiper switch.
By the time I got to work, I smelled a 'electric burning smell.' The wiper was still going! The motor was too hot to touch!
Fortunately, I had cleaned out the cowl area of leaves and debris a while back.
So whatever is the problem, make sure that the cowl area is free of dry leaves that can burn real nice.
-Z-man.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Did this the first night it was having trouble...didn't dare leave it in the garage without checking things out first.
I've also taken the relay out until I can get things working.
01-21-2003, 12:25 PM
#14
Race Director
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Scootin159:
<strong>
I've also taken the relay out until I can get things working.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Good move. That way, you are certain the motor's not getting any juice!
Hope you figure your troubles out soon!
My fix was a new motor. And while my car was in the shop, it got new CV-joints (didn't need them yet, but since I track the car, I felt more comfortable replacing them BEFORE anything happened!) Of course, they also found my slave cylinder leaking, so a new master & slave was also added to my bill.
Funny how a blown wiper motor wound up costing me well over $1000.00 after all was said and done...
-Z.
<strong>
I've also taken the relay out until I can get things working.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Good move. That way, you are certain the motor's not getting any juice!
Hope you figure your troubles out soon!
My fix was a new motor. And while my car was in the shop, it got new CV-joints (didn't need them yet, but since I track the car, I felt more comfortable replacing them BEFORE anything happened!) Of course, they also found my slave cylinder leaking, so a new master & slave was also added to my bill.
Funny how a blown wiper motor wound up costing me well over $1000.00 after all was said and done...
-Z.
01-23-2003, 08:44 PM
#15
Drifting
Thread Starter
Alright, I should have a new motor in my possesion soon. I'm not sure if I need it or not, but I want to have one in my hand before I start the operation & I'll ebay it if I don't need it (or put it on here or something).
Anyways, I know I have to "peel" that plastic cover off the windshield to get to the motor. My question is should I try and glue it back down when I'm done (it's 10* outside), or should I just leave everything exposed for the rest of winter? (is there any real purpose other than style to that cover?) If I should re-attach it, what is the best way?
Anyways, I know I have to "peel" that plastic cover off the windshield to get to the motor. My question is should I try and glue it back down when I'm done (it's 10* outside), or should I just leave everything exposed for the rest of winter? (is there any real purpose other than style to that cover?) If I should re-attach it, what is the best way?