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Old 10-03-2006, 02:39 PM   #1
82-T/A
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Default Just got a 1984 Porsche 944, couple of Qs...

Hey guys,

I just joined this forum today. I recently purchased a 1984 Porsche 944 NA. I'm pretty excited about it. I've always been a huge fan of Porsches, primarily the underdogs like the 914, the old 912s, etc...

Anyway, I had a few questions that I was hoping you guys might be able to help me with. For one, this car as far as I know is NOT running. The guy says it cranks, but does not turn over. Sounds to me like ignition or fuel. I'm not particularly worried as I can do all of this work myself. This brings me to my next question... where is the best place to purchase mechanical/service replacement parts for my 84 Porsche? I don't assume that I can just go to Discount Auto Parts, or Super Track & Auto or something like that?

My next question is, this car as I understand it came with the 2.5 liter motor. SOHC with balancing shafts and whatnot. I noticed that the later years came with a 2.7, and then a 3.0. Is upgrading the 2.5 to a 2.7 or 3.0 status as easy as it is to upgrade a VW Bus with an 1800 or 2000cc motor when it originally came with a 1700? Are those blocks basically all the same?

I also have a 1987 Pontiac Fiero which basically came with a 2.8 60 degree V6. They made this SAME motor in displacements of 3.1 and 3.4 as well. I was able to upgrade my 2.8 into a 3.2 by basically dropping in 3.1 internals and going with .040 overbore pistons. Can something like that be done with my 2.5? Or are all three of those motors completely different?

I happened to catch something in my searches that stated that the later year cars... 85.5+ had a better computer control and upgraded MAF system which was superior to the MAF / ECM in my 84? I seem to recall it said something along the lines of a 10 hp increase and better fuel management (improved fuel economy, cold starts, idle, etc...). Is this true?


Anyway, I'm really excited about this car. I'm particularly fond of the fact that it's a pre 85.5. I understand the 85.5+ cars are more sought after, but I particularly like the more "classic" styling of the 84 dash and interior.

One more thing before I finally post this. What kind of performance can I expect from this Porsche in stock form... I'm thinking high 15s, maybe a low 8 second 0-60? Does that seem right? Is there much to be gained in terms of going with a 2.7, getting the performance exhuast header, larger throttle body, and a slightly improved exhaust? What are some typical things that people do to upgrade the Porsche 944's performance?

Anyway... just wanted to introduce myself and ask a few questions.


Thanks!!!


Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1984 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 SE WS6
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac TransAm (455)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter
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Old 10-03-2006, 02:56 PM   #2
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You can swap into an 84 944 a number of different engines.
84 2.5L 8 Valve = 150 hp (or so)

2.7L 8 Valve = 162 hp (benefit is more torque, but not really noticeable on the street) - effort is moderate if you get the motor (89 model year only so limited numbers)
2.5L 16valve = 188 hp (gain is in the top end, swap is bit more work due added 16v engine controls)
3.0L 16valve = 208 hp (Nice strong power gain with torque, similar effort as 2.5L 16v motor, but you should think about replacing the gearbox too to handle the power)
3.0L 16vavle - varioram 968 motor - 236hp =(the best NA swap out there, but motors are costly and alot of parts changed over the years, again the stock gearbox makes it hard)

2.5L 8valve Turbo - 217hp to 500hp
you can also due turbo swap, but that is even more complex due to all the extra plumbing. Sadly you can't just put a turbo on the 2.5L. The Turbo blocks are virtually the same, but use lower compression pistons and have few other added features. In nearly all cases the cost of doing this is MORE than cost difference between the car you have and factory 944 Turbo. Also remember the 944 Turbo came with alot more than just a turbo so they have lots of advantages.

In general none of the NA motors will make more power than stock. If you get 5hp from a combo of headers, chips,intake you are very lucky. In fact on the 84 NA keep the stock intake at it makes the MOST hp. For street use moding the motor in an NA 944 based engine is not going to do much of anything. Even seat of the pants you won't feel much. The turbo motor will make ALOT more than stock with the right mods for a reasonable cost. You can bore/stroke the 2.5L motor, but even when taken to the blocks limits you will be close to the 3.0L 968 power output and hundreds of hp behind were a 951 would be with same money put into it.

That said an 84 NA is great car and lots of fun to drive. Straight line performance these days is nothing special, but they handle really well and take very well to suspension upgrades. They take so well to light suspension work and simple weight reduction (stripping interior & uneeded parts) that we have developed racing series just for these cars. My race prepped stock motor 84 944 is faster on the track than my 100% stock 944 Turbo S inspite of being down 100 hp.
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M758
You can swap into an 84 944 a number of different engines.
84 2.5L 8 Valve = 150 hp (or so)
2.7L 8 Valve = 162 hp (benefit is more torque)
2.5L 16valve = 188 hp
3.0L 16valve = 208 hp3.0L 16vavle - varioram 968 motor - 236hp
2.5L 8valve Turbo - 217hp to 500hp


In general none of the NA motors will make more power than stock. If you get 5hp from a combo of headers, chips,intake you are very lucky. In fact on the 84 NA keep the stock intake at it makes the MOST hp. For street use moding the motor in an NA 944 based engine is not going to do much of anything.

Thanks Joe! I really appreciate this response. This is some really great information. So it seems that ALL 3.0s are DOHC, if I'm understanding this correctly? I think what my goal really is, is to be able to build up the 84 Porsche 944 in such a way as to maximize power, while still retaining the car's originality (for the most part). That said, it appears to me that the 2.7 is probably the BEST fit for my needs. In addition, I do often see that 2.7 motor in the junkyard from time to time (and they sell them for only $100-150 bucks).

In terms of using the 2.7, I would probably want to rebuild the motor. Are there any specific parts that I can use that would boost performance a slightly, but not upset the basic characteristics of the motor? Do they sell slightly higher ratio'ed cam-followers? What would a basic rebuild kit cost on a 2.7, and can those pistons be re-used if they are clean? (Are they aluminum or cast steel?).

One other thing I was curious, are the 2.5 and 2.7 engines basically identical? My concern is whether or not it would require me to replace all the engine wiring, or if the existing 84 harness and computer could manage it. I haven't taken a good look, but I can't imagine it's all that complicated considering it's age? Is it just a multi-port fuel injection system with basic OBD-1?


I believe I had read somewhere that the computer and MAF from the 86 can be swapped into an 84 and it will provide more efficient / reliable performance (better idle, starts, and fuel management). Is this true or am I getting the years mixed up?


Thanks for all your advice so far!
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
In addition, I do often see that 2.7 motor in the junkyard from time to time (and they sell them for only $100-150 bucks).
If you could, pick me up a couple at that price when you are there next time.................
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:56 PM   #5
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Engine rebuilds at home will cost $1000 to $3000 depending on how many parts you replace. I have done a few rebuild for my race motor all to stock specs per out rules. $1000 is just seal kits, new bearings and rings. 3k is head work (back to stock) crank drilling for better oiling and various new parts. Pistons, rods, crank are all reused unless they have problem. Bore are also rarely machined since it is an expensive process that requires specal tools to handle the unique aluminum/slicon mix the bores are made from. Plus oversize pistons are VERY expensive.

Personally for a street car a 2.7L is nice, but if you 84 motor is fine just stay with that. The difference in power between and 84 and 89 2.7 would only be noticeable in a side by side run. Otherwise I'd bet you could not tell the differnce. IHMO it is ALOT of work for little gain. Stay with 84 parts/engine until things break. Even then staying in the same family of development keeps things simple.

Cam followers are call lifters and stock is all you need or even can get short of solid lifters. These are not something people put on street cars as there is a considerable expense.

The 2.5 the same as the 2.7L except for the large bore and different pistons. The computer is also different. Now between 84 and 86 they made number of changes in the cars. These were allong with the interior change and thus it takes a bit of thinking to install 85.5 parts (late cars) in 83-85 cars. Nothering insurmountable however. I had and complete 87 engine in my 84 race car. I swapped the harness, but not have neeed to do so. Right now I have an 84 block with 87 head and engine controls.

As for the MAF. No 944 car (even the 3.0L 968) cam with a MAF. They all had barn door style AFM (air flow meters). You can swap the AFM and DME Computer from an 86 and put it into an 84, but unless you have some strong need it won't do anything. Again lots of work for no gain.

If you want a really nice running 944 keep the stock parts and just make sure everything is working right. Upgrading engine/engine control stuff is possbile, but often results in little things to track down and no real gains.

Suspension is best place to put upgrade efforts.
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Old 10-03-2006, 06:00 PM   #6
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yeah, me too. where are you? Iraq?! Do you have to drive into Baghdad to get the motors? that can explain the super cheap pricing.
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:53 PM   #7
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Thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it.

I am located in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The junkyard is U-Pull-It in Davie, Florida. They get all kinds of cars and could care less what it is. They'll crush it all the same. I've seen several 12 cyl jags there, a couple of Maserati BiTurbos including a convertible one, several 1st gen Camaros (dozens of Y88 Bandit TransAms), quite a few mid 60s Mustangs, a few 55-57 chevys / buicks / Pontiacs (typically rusted though). I actually just helped a friend pull a 500 cubic inch Cadillac motor 2 weekends ago, from a 1971 Cadillac Eldorado that only had 40k miles on it. The only thing wrong with it was that the roof was smashed in... it appeared as though a tree had fallen on it.

I've seen numerous Porsches (mostly 914s and 924s, every now and then a 944/928/912), 60s Fiats, Volvo P1800s, VW Buses, beetles, Corvettes (usually without their motors)... you name it, they get it. They recycle something ridiculous like 4,000 cars a month!!!

Hey... I won't be dissapointed if I let the secret out. I do everything I can to get people to go to this yard to save some of these cars. They will sell them for $250 bucks IF you plan on taking them out of state... they'll even give you back the original title without giving it a salvaged title on it (unless it's totalled by an insurance company).

Here is the web site:

http://www.u-pull-it.com/newsite/index_about.html
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