MM951

Hey, can anyone show me a pic or explain what order the wires go on a starter for an early 944? What I have is: (sorry for the crappy diagram)



Left post (looking from back of starter) - Thick BLACK and thick red wires

Right post - Brown wire coming from starter to solenoid

Left bottom "screw connector" - empty

Right bottom "screw connector" - small red/ black wire

Look right?? The starter makes no noise when cranking all I hear is the fuel pump. The car started before I removed starter while doing clutch..

thanks
mike

jpk

Here's a pic from my '84. The big wire with the red heatshrink is the main battery lead, you can't see it, but under it, on the same post of the starter is the 10ga wire that comes back from the alternator. The other black wire is the lead from the ignition switch. I have it wrapped with some friction tape for extra insulation. That's it. There's nothing on the other big post except the short braided lead that goes into the starter housing.

You can't get the ignition lead onto the big post (terminal is too small) and both of the wires with the big terminals go onto the big post on the left side (as you look at the back)

MM951

Hmm, thats how I have mine set up (unless I'm mistaken in believing the big red is the one coming from the alternator?)?

time to look for a new starter or trace the wiring...

jpk

Just a suggestion - if you want to check your starter, use a wrench to jump from the big post to the little post on the starter. It should crank right away (obviously - make sure it's not in gear...)

MM951

Okay, jumped it and the starter goes. Solenoid dead??

When the starter is spinning, it goes very fast and does *not* spin the motor. I'm taking the starter off and making sure its in properly..but??

Edit: Took starter off and reinstalled...don't know why its not spinning the motor?? starter can only go on one wa y, why wouldn't in catch the teeth??thanks a ton and thanks for the pic

jpk

One of the jobs of the solenoid is to kick the gear of the motor out to engage the teeth on the flywheel. This is typically done with the same coil that makes the electrical contact, and that's working, so I'd suspect a mechanical failure - maybee a broken fork from the end of the solenoid to the starter spur gear. At this point, go ahead and take the starter apart to see if you can figgure out what's wrong.

I think you have another issue though - you mentioned that when it was in the car, turning the key didn't do anything. You need to figgure out if you're getting current to the small trigger lead for the starter or not. (hook up a test light and turn the key - it should light up)

MM951

Alright, so does a new starter seem to be in order?
When in the car, turning the key puts on the radio, lights come on, fuel pump comes on...just nothing from the starter. I'm not sure what exactly the small trigger lead is? Could you tell me where it is/what exactly it is?

Is it normal for a starter to not work when its removed from the car? It sat in my garage for a few months and the first time I removed it, it fell and hit pavement ...probably a 10" fall..

thanks again

jpk

The wire with the little terminal gets power from the ignition switch when you turn it to crank the engine. It in turn, energizes the coil in the solenoid and makes the starter spin. If you had this hooked up correctly and it wasn't cranking (or even just spinning the starter) when you turn the key, I'd suspect you have a problem with that circuit.

The pinion gear on the end of the starter needs to kick out and engage the flyweel teeth when you crank the engine. This is also done by the solenoid at the same time that it switches on the battery current to the motor. On the top of the solenoid is a linkage that engages under the pinion gear and pushes it out. There could be a mechanical problem in this linkage, like a broken pin or link, or it may be that the pinion gear is simply stuck. With the starter out, you should be able to slide the pinion gear up on the shaft pretty easilly. I believe there's a spring to push it back, but if it doesn't move easilly, you'll need to grease it up.

MM951

OK, removed starter removed that 10mm bolt on the side and the gear came out. I can push it in but it stays out if I don't. Is that how it should be or is something wrong? ill stick it on in the morning and see how it goes...unless someone can tell me otherwise first?

thanks!
Mike

MM951

update - started the car with a screwdriver. man its good to see the wheels move when in gear!!!

Does that wire go straight from the solenoid to the ignition??
mike

jpk

Pretty much a straight path for that lead - from the ignition switch, into the fuse/relay board at terminal E17, back out and straight down to the starter. There is a lead that taps off to feed the DME. This should be under the dash, after the wire comes out of the fuse board at connection A10, but before it goes back out through the firewall.
The wire from the ignition switch is listed as red/black which should be red with a black stripe. It's a pretty heavy wire - 4 mm area, so it's like a 10 guage wire. There are two heavy wires like that at the ignition switch - a solid red (carries juice from the battery) and the red/black to the starter solenoid. I'll poke around a bit to see if I can find this connector on mine...

jpk

Check this connection. The red/black wire is the starter lead from the ignition switch.

MM951

Hey, thanks a ton I'll check it out. That connector was unplugged, but a few days ago I plugged it in. It's about to rain and I have to ride the cbr back home in the rain...

thanks!!

MM951

OK, the wiring under my dash is a nightmare... I'll have to grab a digi cam and snap a few pics see if it will help. There are 3 small red/black wires (by red/black I mean one wire red, one wire black, but they are side by side) a big solid red one by the ignition (have to remove the under panel?) and nothing red with a black stripe. I can see red wire w/ black strip in the connector shown in your pic, but not anywhere else...I'm going to look for hte shop manual, see if I can find a wiring diagram.

Where can you identify a specific (E17) location on the fuse board? Mine have letters but none of the boards have room for 17 or the number..
thanks!
mike

kwdrus

Mike, I have all the wiring diagrams and shop manuals over here on Staten Island. Send me a pm about getting them to you.