Dougal Cawley

I still don't think you are reading what i write properly.

The advantages you talk about in modern tyres are suited to modern cars, not old cars. A tyre like the CN36 suits the set up of an old car better than a new tyre design.

Dougal Cawley

You might find this interesting http://www.tyrepress.com/2016/06/pir...sic-tyre-test/ though it is pretty much a report on a report.

Some people can have a vested commercial interest and still be honest.

Dougal Cawley

You might find this interesting http://www.tyrepress.com/2016/06/pir...sic-tyre-test/ though it is pretty much a report on a report.

Some people can have a vested commercial interest and still be honest.

r911

That test compares it to the XWX, a "classic' tire.

While you may be honest, you do not seem to understand tire design. I addressed whether the rounded shoulders of the CN36 were suitable to a 911 above. I still don't think you are reading what I write properly, other options are that you don't understand it, or don't want to understand.

Dougal Cawley

The XWX was tested at the same time, but the scores that are given have no bearing on what the other tyres that were tested achieved.

Yes they are set it out in a table so they are easy to compare. did you want them to do the test for every tyre that people could fit?

You are right i have missed the bit where you: "addressed whether the rounded shoulders of the CN36 were suitable to a 911 above". could you please explain it again so i can understand it.

Is it the bit where you say "the rounded tread cross-section could help give the rie a more progressive breakaway, that is easier to sense by the driver."

This doesn't seem to far from what i am saying; that the rounded shoulders of the CN36 do give progressive handling and that is the whole point. however in saying "could help" you are still attempting to spread doubt on something that is the critical difference in the design of the old style tyres that makes it more suited to an old car.

I look forward to being patronized and disagreed with again.

r911

Progressive breakaway can be beneficial in some ways such as telegraphing the limit, esp. to novice drivers. However, the rounded shoulder design is only a single factor, among many, that affect performance.

Why don't you explain why you think the ancient CN36 is better than more modern designs? Some factors to consider are tread pattern, carcass construction, cross-section ("rounded shoulders"), and compounding.

BTW, I have gone out of my way to try and stick to technical issues, and not patronize you, tho you seem to ask for it.

Dougal Cawley

Progressive handling is a big part of what driving an old car is about.

I have explained about the benefits of the CN36. The major benefit above modern tyres is that progressive handling. just read what i've written

09mageec

LOL

Dougal Cawley

Am i allowed to posgt links from another forum http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/vie...511612#p511612

Can i then gloat and say "i told you so"

r911

are you trying to gloat over a post where one guy found that new tires were better than old ones?

Dougal Cawley

Maybe you are right, maybe they are rubbish. maybe that chaps opinion isn't worth anything either.

It could be that Pirelli, a company that i would suggest are one of the worlds leading tyre manufacturers, just made some tyres specifically for this car, but weren't quite sure how to do it, and just banged out any old crap. I mean i can see that happening. 100 year old companies do that sort of thing all the time. that is how they keep going for 100 years.

then maybe Porsche wrote a list of what tyres they recommend for these cars http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page...-porsche-tyres and by accident listed the new CN36 tyres http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page...cinturato-cn36 as there recommendation. I suppose Porsche don't really know much about these things. you probably know better than Porsche.

Then just maybe by coincidence a independent German magazine invested a bucket load of money to have these tyre tested by an independent tyre testing place and maybe by accident they said they were fantastic and gave them incredibly high scores even thought they are on an old car but they actually weren't and you were right all along; not Pirelli, Not Porsche, not the independent tyre tester, you were right. maybe that is the way it is.

r911

don't try to create a strawman - no one said they were rubbish

Pirelli makes them to suit concours

for performance there are other tires to use or try, and almost any new tire will feel better and outperform an old tire

Dougal Cawley

The thing is r911 although you are not saying they are rubbish you are insinuating that Pirelli would make a tyre "only" to suit concours, which is complete crap. And what just isn't sinking in is that Pirelli don't let tyres out their shed unless they are excellent. and Porsche wouldn't recommend them unless they were excellent, and the German tyre test wouldn't say they were excellent unless they actually were.

The CN36 is an excellent tyre. that handles fantastically with these cars and yes while doing so they also use the correct tread pattern so that at the same time it is correct for concourse, because you can have both. they only get such high scores on the tyre test that the German magazine did because they are brilliant tyres. maybe they just lied for the hell of it.


You have no basis behind your argument, you are just waffling and arguing for the sake of it, just not to back down.

What do you mean by "for performance there are other tires to use or try"

A modern tyre will categorically not feel better. It will have a modern carcass designed to be suited to a totally different kind of car.

A modern tyre will not handle better because it will not have the rounded shoulders that are suited to cars that need progressive handling. Modern square shouldered tyres are designed to be used with far more camber and caster than cars of this period had.

If you set a 911 up for the track and you give it adverse camber; to adjust the car to suit a wider, squarer shouldered tyre, and you harden the springs, and adjust your shock absorbers, then yes in that completely irrelevant situation, in a totally different car on a perfectly smooth race track then a good driver should get better lap times. because you will be able to increase the actual road holding, but at the expense of handling. It just won't feel better.

A modern tyre will only perform better on a modern car, or a modified car that is adjusted to suit it.

I'm not suggesting that people fit the CN36 on a more modern car, just where it suits, they are great.

sycipworks

my 74 carrera came from the factory with 15x7 fronts and 15x8 rear, i used 205/60 front and 215/60 rear

if you have 15x6 or 15x7 all around then 205/60 would be nice

r911

Dougal, I've been very patient with your inane assertions, so don't push your luck

There are lots of other tires that will deliver better performance than the ones you are trying so hard to sell.

And while I have lots of information ot back that up, you have none to support your assertions. Indeed, has become evident over the course of this thread that you simply do not understand the issues involved. And I don't mean just the engineering or design issues, but how to conduct a test.

As one of my old engineering professors noted long ago, you first need the Methods section of any journal article. If that is deficient, then it is a waste of time to read the Results section or Discussion.